Cultural misunderstanding or fraud?

[athena_ny 1]

Wow, I had no idea I would be getting so much interest in this subject. I would like to say that I love this place for all its ups and downs; for all its mini-fights within fights within discussions of the heavy matter, or simple matter.

Thanks to ALL of you for your responses; I appreciate all the perspectives that have been offered.

To recap, alot of you have suggested I go to visit to feel things out. I am scheduled for my second visit at the end of Feb (athena nv, we might even be on the same plane, who knows). This has been scheduled for a while now, so we are both looking forward to it.

That being the case, this is why I appreciate all of your perspectives. My hope is that there will be more clearcut revelations to the "validity" of the relationship while I am visiting. I did hope for the same thing the last time I was there, and it was both clearcut and murky. The murkiness came from the secret nature of the people, and I believe some body responded who was hispanic who said this is a cultural thing because it happens in all of his family (I can't remember who you are). So, to respect cultural differences, one portion of my brain is telling me to let this go, but to also protect my heart, my future being, me, another portion of the brain is telling me that I should suspect. The clearcut revelation I had the last time, was her choice to inadvertently nibble on my hair as if it was a completely normal thing to do, in front of some of my family that were traveling with me. That doesn't say much, but I could never imagine that happening with somebody who was trying to stage something. Any way, maybe I need to concentrate on the nibbling of the hair, rather than the secretiveness and "contradictory" statements. We speak entirely in Spanish, and mine is rudimentary but I believe sufficient for a romantic endeavour.

So, what do I look for while I am visiting, to try and get a more concrete feel of the relationship? More nibbling? That might get tiring.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Sipues

We'll be staying in the San Borja area of Lima

Good luck on your visit!

Most Peruvians I know are pretty genuine, even if Peruvians are not known for being the friendliest or most open people in the world (and let me tell you - a day at the Consulate in Miami solidified that for me just try asking where the bathroom is...THEY WON'T TELL YOU!) Some are trying to defraud a USC, and I've met what I believe to be one or two of those as well...but I will say that most of the Peruvians I know are from Lima and from pretty well-off families with very little reason to want/need to live in the US or nail a USC spouse. So as far as the signs of fraud, I'll leave that to people better-versed in that.

[mox 298]

take whatever advice you get here with a huge nugget of salt.

I would like to point out that your analogy means you are telling him to take everything people are saying VERY seriously. People say "take it with a grain of salt" because a grain of salt is tiny. Taking it with a nugget of salt would be taking it to heart! lol. Made me giggle

Actually I was just concerned he wasn't getting enough sodium in his diet.

[pushbrk 12,291]

So, what do I look for while I am visiting, to try and get a more concrete feel of the relationship? More nibbling? That might get tiring.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Sipues

I think you have to find that answer yourself from within your experience in this and other relationships. When you're there, does the relationship feel real? Is the affection and emotional connection genuine? Can you discuss your concerns (without blaming her) openly and find peace in the discussion?

[Brian&Mel 0]

Wow, I had no idea I would be getting so much interest in this subject. I would like to say that I love this place for all its ups and downs; for all its mini-fights within fights within discussions of the heavy matter, or simple matter.

Thanks to ALL of you for your responses; I appreciate all the perspectives that have been offered.

To recap, alot of you have suggested I go to visit to feel things out. I am scheduled for my second visit at the end of Feb (athena nv, we might even be on the same plane, who knows). This has been scheduled for a while now, so we are both looking forward to it.

That being the case, this is why I appreciate all of your perspectives. My hope is that there will be more clearcut revelations to the "validity" of the relationship while I am visiting. I did hope for the same thing the last time I was there, and it was both clearcut and murky. The murkiness came from the secret nature of the people, and I believe some body responded who was hispanic who said this is a cultural thing because it happens in all of his family (I can't remember who you are). So, to respect cultural differences, one portion of my brain is telling me to let this go, but to also protect my heart, my future being, me, another portion of the brain is telling me that I should suspect. The clearcut revelation I had the last time, was her choice to inadvertently nibble on my hair as if it was a completely normal thing to do, in front of some of my family that were traveling with me. That doesn't say much, but I could never imagine that happening with somebody who was trying to stage something. Any way, maybe I need to concentrate on the nibbling of the hair, rather than the secretiveness and "contradictory" statements. We speak entirely in Spanish, and mine is rudimentary but I believe sufficient for a romantic endeavour.

So, what do I look for while I am visiting, to try and get a more concrete feel of the relationship? More nibbling? That might get tiring.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Sipues

Good luck!

Hope you'll your happiness!

All the best.

[FaSa2008 0]

OK OK im stepping in NOW and Im going to be BLUNT ...

Im a peruvian/American but I grew up in PERU... Someone wrote PERUVIANS ARE VERY PRIVATE PEOPLE?!?!?!! omg A normal peruvian its not PRIVATE at all ... they are so outspoken so when someone its no ttalking to much THERE IS DEFINETALY a problem!

Now for future references your fiance its not a Chola she is a Serrana..Cholas are from Lima... In peru they use it to denigrate people that have darker features as CHOLAS ...

My Fiance is in Peru, and our secret to success its COMUNICATION .. thats all u really have when theres a long distance relationship! AND you shld ask ur fiancee if everything is OK...

I agree with most people you shloud pay her a visit and see how things are .. and u guys feel abt eachother!

i go to Peru every 6 months and talk to my fiance every day every hour almost, we see eachohter on the webcam most of the days!

If u have a gut feeling follow it, Go to Peru and see ....

As far as Visa fraud yes in MANY countries not just Peru people look to escape form their poverty and "be saved" and be brought to America... one has to be certain BEFORE you apply that this person in not using u to come to usa...

when was the last time u saw ur serranita?!

This is kinda long:

So, I am trying to distinguish what is cultural misunderstanding and what is not. My SO is from Lima, but originally from one of the mid Andes-Jungle provinces - i.e, not quite from la sierra and not quite from la selva. She moved to Lima right after high school to work, because her family needed her to.

We have a basic connection that I can't explain, and that I have never had with anybody else. I am sure that's why all of us here are with our SO's, right? Any way, I lived in Peru for just over a year, and learned Spanish and the culture for the first time. We started dating a few months before I had to leave. She is very much like alot of the young women you will meet when you go to the tourist Peruvian handcraft markets that are peppered all over Lima, and to whom alot of Peruvians refer to as "Cholas". Please, let's keep this to the Peruvian understanding of "Chola".

The problem? I know, I know: The communication, almost entirely via phone, for hours almost every day, is wonderful, untill recently. But I am almost always left with contradicting statements to ponder about, or to wonder why she has answers to everything. And then, the dreaded Peruvian habit of not being forthcoming with information. A questions is only answered exactly to its required answer, no more, and no less; so there's no expounding (spelling?) beyond the minimum, which was one of my frustrations while living there. Here you are taught that every statement is a mini-thesis, with introduction, body and conclusion (there abouts), and so when you talk, you kind of talk in a similar manner; it is not what I have experienced in Peru. I guess we Americans always reveal so much info in our conversations, eh? So, lately I have been pointing out the contradictions, and she obviously denies them. So, the communication has gone down. I will call, and we will be on the phone a few minutes before she comes up with an excuse why she has to go. It has seemed pretty evasive.

Now, with Peru being known for high visa fraud, of course this is setting off all sorts of alarms in my head about the "validity" of the relationship, and whether this woman is playing me for a visa. Yes, I know, if that's the case, it won't be the first or last. But I would rather try to understand this further than just cutoff the process because I may have suspected wrongly. The K1 was already filed, so if worse comes to worst, I would be looking at canceling it.

Has any body else had similar experiences with their SO's? How have you handled it?

[AskimZeki 0]

sipues,

First let me say you need to make absolutely certain this is not a language barrier, and it is not just because of the different languages that you are misinterpreting things. Sometimes I will make a statement to my fiancee, and he understands me to say something different than what I meant. At first I always asked him if he understood me when he got quiet. I would explain things to him if he told me he did not. As time has passed, we do alot better understanding one another, however we still occassionally have times one of us does not understand the statement the other has made. We just keep asking each other to explain until we get it right. Sometimes it is frustrating, and others it is just a matter of changing a word or two to complete the communication.

Maybe the communication is not as lengthy in other cultures as ours, however contradicting statements are the same in any language. If this is the case, and it is not because of the language difference, then I would view this as a moral and personal value issue, not a cultural issue. I wouldn't care if the person were white, black, yellow, or green, it is not ok in any culture to be deceitful with statements one is making.

If this is an infrequent occurance, it could be that it is simply a misunderstanding between the languages. She may be getting frustrated because she did not understand what you said to begin with.

I wish you luck with this.

Sue

OH MY THANK ALLAH FOR YOU!!!!

I AM NOT ALONE!!!!!!!!

I thought it was just me- how comforting to know I'm not nuts!

Khi

[ChrisB0707 4]

Just because you surprise someone with a visit doesnt mean you dont trust them. I am in the Philippines for the 3rd time to see my fiance and she didnt know I was coming. I even called her from my US cell phone after I arrived and told her I had called a local gift store and ordered something for her and she had to go pick it up. When she arrived at the gift store I had worked everything out with the store and when she was receiving the gift I had bought for her I walked up behind her and kissed the back of her neck. She was so happy to see me. I think anyone that doesnt like a surprise visit from someone they love then they might have something to hide, it doesnt always have to be about trust just because you surprise someone.

[greeneyedgirlfl 0]

I would love my SO to surprise me with a visit...anything for him to be here!!!

[aravis227 1]

I'm going to jump in for a second, too. A lot of people have said a lot of good things that I won't repeat and if someone said this and I missed it, I'm sorry. If you find that this is just a cultural thing and she is being completely honest with you think about this, you're already having doubts this strong. Is this particular part of her culture is something you can live with for the rest of your life? Will you really be able to let it go all of the time without getting a complete answer or will this be constantly causing fights between you? Will you always feel like she's lying to you when she feels like she's disclosed the full truth? Those are things that you should answer for your happiness in the long term, and for hers. It's so easy to get caught up in "All I want is to be with you and we'll figure everything out later."

I fibbed earlier...I am going to repeat what others have said. Communication is SO important, especially in a long distance relationship. My fiance and I have both taken extra steps to make sure we are both confident in our relationship and in trusting each other. Things we wouldn't have done if we lived in the same city.

Just some things to think about. I wish you the best of luck and I hope everything works out for you and your fiancee.

[Tunji&Toyin 0]

I just want to add that instead of suspecting the possibility of 'fraud' right off the bat, it is also possible that she is having second thoughts and doubts about the relationship herself and doesn't know how to address it with you. She too may be having concerns about if she really wants to proceed or not. Distance can do that to people. If you can afford it, you may want to take a visit back and see each other face to face before you decide to do something so drastic as to pull your petition. You will have a better idea then if she is getting cold feet, if you are getting cold feet or if indeed there is more to it than that. Good luck.

I absolutely agree with Kathryn... her points are very valid, go back and see her one more time!

[saraswati007 0]

Carlawarla,

SO true!! My SO and I used to talk on the phone every single day and for hours and hours on end. We still speak every day, but it's a couple of times per day and for shorter durations... as you said, things just evolved, and after a while, the long conversations were reminders that we WEREN'T physically together.

As others here have said, the only way to gain a better understanding of the relationship is to arrange a visit. Maybe you need that reconnection? Or maybe the cultural/language misunderstandings will vanish with a face-to-face meeting. Making a trip costs more, certainly, than phone calls or just pressing on, but in the long run it's so much cheaper than heartbreak.

Best of luck!

I agree with Kathryn41 and a visit may be in order. You have explained yourself really well here though, and I applaud your talking about this issue rather than having it go around and around in your head and not being sure if what you're thinking is "real". I think you've explained it to us really well...maybe it's time to talk to your SO in the same manner. Tell her you're not thinking you're communicating really well now. Tell her that it's so different being on the phone than in person. Open up those lines of communication and she might start communicating how she's feeling about the communication and how it's going with you.

For myself and my SO, we found at the beginning our phone conversations to be a huge way of expressing ourselves. The closer we got to the visa interview, I would say they were different. I think over time they were meant to be that way. At least for us. They were oft times frustrating, because we wanted to physically be together, and the phone was just not "cutting" it anymore. When we found this was happening, we admitted we just had to be together, and Gene took a trip up to Canada so we could be together. Something to think about!

Best of luck to you. Let us know how you resolve these thoughts. Hope other people's experiences are helpful as well.

[*julez* 124]

I'm guessing that this situation has been resolved one way or the other by now since the OP's last post was in January.