rlogan

"give" money: such a perversion of Filipino culture.

It is more like small town farm America generations ago where people raised barns together, helped each other harvest, invested together... mutual reciprocity.

Their culture is not "you help me and I do nothing for you". Their culture is "we help each other".

I knew Filipino culture thoroughly before I met my wife. I didn't walk in saying "I want the one I don't have to do anything for". I right away told her I knew exactly what she wanted: to help her family. I was there to figure out how best to help, not just to send money - and that we would in return make agreements about how we would all help each other.

Right away we built a house together. A sea wall. So we have a house in the Philippines, stayed there five months last year. We have a brother who we put through merchant marine school and he is right now being trained by the company hiring him. He is taking care of the parents in retirement - a common Filipino tradition. It's THRILLING to have pulled that off as a family. Her sister is just starting college, and same thing - we have an agreement with her.

These are investments. They pay dividends. That isn't "giving money". What kind of resentments can you have when your family is working their butts off on the same project you are?

Hormones make it difficult to assess this.

My wife turned into a ###### loon and I had just told her: this is it, you've gone too far, this is unacceptable behavior and I won't stand for it... What could possibly make you act so crazy?!

Oh. Oh yea. Pregnancy. Sure thing, that;s what it was. But knowing that helped both of us keep that kind of behavior in check.

Mine told me she was going to leave me because she didn't deserve me, lol.

You got me blushing with your intelligent expressions right here.

But what you got is radar. I was not kidding when I said "you're good". You can spot manipulation by how it feels when you see it. Tell me I am wrong. lol. This is something I do know a lot about, but I had broken radar. Yours is good.

This woman in the OP is an example of not trusting radar, or not having it at all. Anything that is amiss: do not explain it away.

Walk in with your eyes open. Especially with abuse, if you see any, then run like hell. Do not give chances. Abuse = fail. Well yes of course, a person who abuses you will also set you up to be in the wrong. They have no conscience.

I preferred meeting in person, and over much longer periods than seems typical here. Meet the family, friends, school mates, work mates - the more you see of this, the less likely you are to be played. Sit down with grandma and grandpa! Really get to know her family.

I "get" meeting over the internet. Golly, you can go through thousands of profiles and select what you are interested in. But on the other hand, people can be whoever they want to be online...so you can waste a lot of time being strung along.

Personally, I want to test drive under race conditions before I consider buying. I don't read the literature on the thing. Just get in it and go. See if it performs.

And what does "sheesh" at the beginning of your sentence implies?

Hey - you're pretty good.

When someone does not answer a simple question and instead attacks the person asking, you have your answer. In this case, notice after you asked what they meant by the term, the answer was to ask YOU what it meant, lol. Answering questions with questions is a key signal we need in our toolkit for understanding what people are up to.

This expression generally means the person is fed up with someone, telling them what a bother they are. Exasperation.

Students at a higher level of understanding manipulation will notice something else: the "solution" offered is not even possible. When you are charged with a crime, you can't even leave your town, let alone go back to your country! So saying to"just" go home (that term "just" is called a minimizer, to make it sound so terribly easy) is like telling them to close their eyes, tap their shoes,and say "there's no place like home" and magically poof themselves into heaven.

Here she is, charged with a crime, fleeing from which is a felony, Telling a person already charged with a crime to commit another felony, as if it were this warm, cheerful opinion - lol. Is this some minor, insignificant detail about the story? That she is currently charged criminally and has no legal right to leave? No, it is pretty much the ENTIRE STORY. This is the very thing about the story that is so awful and in need of such important advice: the fact she is charged with a crime.

So to cut that out of the story, essentially, and make it sound like all they have to do is catch the bus to Disneyland is trivializing their circumstance and making it seem like a bother to even tell people about it. Sheesh. Just shoot your way out of jail already and stop whining ... Have a wonderful day!

Nightmare story:

Five days after we arrived we went to the social security office to file for a number.

The employee insisted ,my wife could not have one. We asked for a supervisor. He told her to file. She completed the form wrong THREE TIMES.

We got a receipt for the application. She didn't know where to file it, so she LOST IT. For months we called, visited, pleaded with them to tell us the status of our application and there was nothing we could do but wait. We were not allowed to file another one.

As the deadline approached we went to our congressman. Nothing happened. After the deadline passed, we got a call from social security directing us to COMMIT A FELONY. We were instructed to change the date stamp on her passport!!

We were appalled and confused. The woman on the phone insisted that if we did not change the entry stamp that she would refuse to process our application for being late, despite the fact we had a receipt showing we applied five days after arriving. We refused to commit the felony.

We then got a letter from social security. It was a forged receipt of application, dated MONTHS after the true receipt. We again went to our congressman. Nothing happened. We had to wait until she had her green card, and try applying for the SS# with her green card.

We went in the office, and the same woman who tried to stop us before tried to stop us again, saying my wife was not eligible for a SS#. When we got the supervisor to direct her to do the application, she insisted we needed certified copies of marriage certificate etc. which was not true. But we came in again, and to our surprise was a brand new Russian immigrant employee who immediately processed our SS application, saying we needed nothing but the green card. The other employee came over to try convincing this helpful employee to not file our application for us.

You could actually see the delight in this woman's face in approaching us by dashing our hopes to finally be free of this office. But the Russian immigrant held her ground and showed her where in the regulations in plain English it said we were eligible, not in need of additional paperwork, and a year of horror story overdue in getting what the government was requiring us to do.

It wasn't just incompetence. It was an astonishing degree of malice and most incredibly a demand we commit a felony., It is a perfect example of how America is not a free country. Even getting that precious number on your forehead subjects you to the power of petty tyrants. You should not need to be numbered in the first place, as if you didn't already have a name, address, and file cabinet full of application materials including background checks, employment history, medical records, locations you have lived for many years into the past...

Twice a day. If I let her use skype she was always taking her clothes off. I should have realized that behavior would continue into marriage.

I don't belong to any party. But this talk right here automatically disqualifies him for me no matter what party he is in.

Enough war already.

Leaving the house open like that is ideal for encouraging affairs.

We've been homeschooling. Kindergarten starts in two weeks. The law says no matter where our son scores on subject tests, he has to enroll as a kindergartener. He tested today at mid-7th grade in reading, about what we expected.

We found the local school's entire grade school curriculum - it's online. It took him four days to finish the entire 2nd and 3rd grade spelling and math lesson sets. Thirty spelling lessons, over 400 words, so two hundred words per day, no problem. Churning them out like a machine.

At the end of kindergarten, at our local school, he will be expected to write both his first and last name.

Right now he is averaging 143 math problems a day. We started late in math, but we are finishing hard. This is the home stretch, and we're going to hit this out of the park. It won't be as high as reading. But even third grade would have been more than I expected. Fourth - yeah, that is what he is studying now. Past my expectations, but be could pull off even higher.

So wish him luck.

It's the Philippines the people are conditioned there.

Fall in Line, Don't ask questions, Never question anybody in authority............

There are things I love about Filipino culture. This is one of the things I lose patience with.

If they can't be trained out of this, then it is just a short-term service model, not a wife.

Boy, you are an inspiration for those whose determination is flagging.

The insanity and unfairness of our system defies belief. The president is rolling out the red carpet for people entering illegally, putting them on public services, and granting them amnesty. Yet others trying to do it legally like you are being put through hell.

My first wife saw me in a Division I NCAA sporting event and decided to look up my profile in the program. She was there with her fiance, and he saw her doing it. From that moment on he was suspicious of her actions, beginning with being a little too interested. But then there was a pattern of behavior that followed, a playbook all cheaters follow.

She engineered meeting me. We spent the night together and from that day on were never apart. She moved in immediately. I was dumbfounded that she was not only engaged to be married, but I listened to her lying on the phone to her parents and this poor guy, pretending nothing was going on and that she was still living with this other woman in an apartment. She told her ex-room mate that when the fiance and parents called that the story to tell was that she was in the shower and would call back. So the old room-mate would call over to my apartment and have her return the call. Her fiance instantly knew what was going on, and told her exactly who it was - me. His radar had been on full alert since the day she looked up my profile in the program. She vehemently denied it.

I objected straight away, but this went on for weeks with a new room-mate having moved in to her old apartment, at which point it had gotten so crazy I said that if she didn't tell everyone the truth that I was going to do it. So she fessed up. She was beautiful, a college grad with a job in the medical field paying a lot of money, an athlete - she seemed like such a catch... so I excused this behavior and even said to myself wow, she must really be in love with me to take off her ring, go for broke, and move in overnight with me.

Eight years later she was having an affair with a bodybuilder and I told her I knew exactly who it was. She vehemently denied it was going on and said I was crazy. I even set a trap for her by pretending to go on a fishing trip and followed her over to his house not more than an hour after I left. She spent the night, and I waited until about 11 am the next day to confront them, presenting myself at his door. I figured she'd have to fess up being caught red-handed like that. But no. This was exactly the same girl I had met eight years before, already engaged to one man and spending the night with another. Lying to everyone: nothing going on here, not willing to tell the truth until the guy himself makes her. She had other people lying for her saying she was over at their place baking a cake or whatever when she was at this guy's house too, just like she had her old room-mate lying for her when I first met her. Same girl doing the same things.

I shouldn't have been the least bit surprised. I filed divorce papers the first business day after I caught them together. Her original strategy was to keep denying it, have her cake and eat it too. But she decided not to contest it and went down to sign off. I gave her a ride to the courthouse, being pretty keen on getting the job done. As we left, she turned to me and said that she wanted to be honest. She decided she was going to start a relationship with this guy. I laughed so hard - it was about the most hilarious thing I had heard my whole life. She punched me in the face, but I just kept laughing.

She probably misunderstood why I was laughing so hard. But it had a lot to do with finally seeing her for what she really was and how dumb I was to watch her bold faced lies to everyone else and excuse it. Way to go, champ. You married her. And this is what you got. It's pretty good comedy to me - seeing myself having done it and hence the parody I wrote.

I wasn't engaged in a tax evasion scheme myself that she was trying to muscle in on, so I didn't have some big contrary interest working against her that prevented me from marrying her. But it should have been enough to see those lies, the cheating, and understand that this was the kind of girl who could do exactly the same thing to me. I realized that it wasn't her ethics needing to be tightened up - it was my own. You cross people off the list when you see this kind of behavior, no matter how hot they are or whatever else they got going for them.

Thank you for the ideas! He has actually been working on his resume...

I suppose some people have misinterpreted what I wrote. He is far from finding the work degrading! He is more than happy to be doing something of help! In fact, he has been a great help and takes initiatives in the household chores. I work nearby so sometimes he is able to bring me lunch--a fact that sometimes brings on some thoughtless remarks or looks from people who don't understand the situation and can't understand why I am working and he is at home and bringing me lunch. He has never once complained about doing the work around the house (and he is a great cook!)....yet, he is a man and while he knows it is out of his hands, he know it is his position as head of the house to be the breadwinner. It makes it a bit more difficult since we are still waiting for our apartment to be finished and don't have our own place yet. Plus, he can't drive since they won't give him a license and we live in a more rural area where driving is necassary to get to just about anywhere. Some days there isn't a lot to be done....

Please don't misjudge my husband. He hasn't once complained about doing the household work. I just know how he feels to be the "man of the house" and not able to work. Its tough. Yes he knew that coming and he hasn't regretted coming. But it can still be rough. You don't have to like it, even if you know it going in.

Please don't judge on matters you don't know.

Not sure what you meant by not giving him the license. Yes, that will help. He can surely study for the written exam and practice for the driving test though. He'll have a lot more freedom and mobility with that license and it is going to be necessary for working.

The average person doesn't think about the world other than how it relates to them on average. You may not understand that, but I do.

Actually, no - I do quite a bit of study on this as a personal hobby, stemming from my interest in personality/character disorders. It is the psychology of empathy.

It is our duty as parents to inculcate empathy, and it has a great deal to do with how people act later as adults. Our culture also has quite a bit to do with it too. It isn't strictly "nurture" of course, as sociopaths also come from backgrounds where these things were nurtured. There are lots of articles on this, most of which I read in the peer reviewed literature because I have access through the University.

But lots in the popular literature too, like this:

http://www.parentingscience.com/teaching-empathy-tips.html

Children learn empathy. That's how easy it is. The statement about the "average thinking about the average" is circular. But I couldn't agree more that we use similar experiences to develop empathy for others. Understanding love between gays does not require that you be gay. I don't have to like onions to understand that other people do.

The OP is concerned people cannot apparently empathize with the fact she has a relationship. It does not require having a long distance relationship yourself in order to empathize with her having a relationship. The people she is concerned about have relationships themselves. So it is an utterly trivial thing to understand.

What is very common though is that people try to invalidate our relationship for very different reasons than not understanding it. Guys who want to get into jamyestrellas pants. She expressed the most disdain for that, and it is pretty easy to understand that their motivation is in their trousers, not that they are incapable of understanding. But it is also snooty people who just want to put her down. Bigotry. Jealousy. Envy. Spite. These are very different matters from not having empathy. They actually do understand, and dislike her relationship for selfish reasons.

And that is why this comes down the vast majority of the time to character. People with character do not try to seduce married women. They do not take cheap shots at people out of jealousy, envy, or spite. They are not bigoted. Etc.

And that is why it is worthless trying to convince a horny male that is trying to get down your pants that your relationship is real. He already knows. He just has no qualms about bedding married women and would be happy to bed a married woman in a domestic relationship too if he thought he could get away with it. He is a man with bad character, and what you do is avoid him instead of meeting for coffee or a beer to try proving your relationship is real.

Like I don't understand why some of men at age 60 wants to marry a 20 years old!!

And lots of people don't understand why gay people are attracted to their own gender, or how anyone could love an obese person, or a black or a Muslim, etc. Or YOU, for that matter. Icky - how could anyone love YOU?! lol.

But the rest of us don't hear about a relationship problem and throw our pet bigotry out there - was he black? Was he fat? Was he Muslim? And get up on our soap box to rant about it.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would marry a Filipina. All they want is a green card. You don't love your husband, and he doesn't love you. How could he? How could anyone? Saying such things does not reflect upon Filipinas. It reflects upon the speaker: that they lack character to say such things.

Just saying

Words like "just" and "only are called minimizers. When people want to make a molehill out of a mountain they do this. So when we tell a black person to stick with his "own kind" so that he can be loved like he wants to, and insinuating he got what he deserved for his white wife leaving him, then we say this. Oh, I'm "Just Saying". As if that makes a nasty, bigoted comment somehow less nasty and bigoted.

This is a simple case of bigotry, not a manipulative person. This was a case of seeing an opportunity to rant about couples with age differences. The previous poster - holy cow. Every sentence is manipulative, and very poorly camouflaged.

Bigots come right out and say nasty things - nothing sneaky about it. They think it is perfectly normal to despise blacks, gays, fat people, or whatever their particular bigotry is. They are amazed that anyone could think what they say is wrong. A manipulative person on the other hand, knows exactly what they are doing and that it is wrong. They just have no scruples about it. But it is delivered in an underhanded, sneaky fashion.

People often don't think outside their bubble unless forced to, and just don't understand. But then do we really ever understand anything until you've experienced it yourself?

Of course we do, and it is quite easy most of the time. That's what is hard to understand - how someone can be such an idiot.

I am not gay but have zero problems understanding a man loving another man. In terms of understanding a long distance relationship or moving - this takes barely more than the brain of a child to understand. We have been migrating for over two million years as a species. Not long ago, arranged marriages were far more prevalent, and people married spouses having never seen them, communicated with them, or knowing much of anything about them.

It really has to be a very strong signal to us when people are so closed-minded.

If I were in your shoes I think you may be over reacting a little bit. But it's hard to know your exact situation. I really don't know who my wife chats with on face time, she talks to friends a lot on the phone and face time. There's so many things that can be signs or nothing at all, the few things you have said to me wouldn't be enough. It isn't great to lie about not seeing someone and really seeing them, but I'm not sure how you found that out. If she came clean later then she wants to be honest with you, if you found it snooping then you are just as much to blame as her. You have to set boundaries together. Someone asked about age, if your gap is more than 20 years that could be a large part of it. Good luck, hopefully you and your wife can get on the same page.

A few things to note about manipulative people here: when they see someone else suffering from a manipulator, they like to join in on the fun and blame the victim by saying you are over-reacting. That's exactly what the wife is doing to the OP, and this person enjoys using the same tactic too.

While he is at it, he is minimizing the behavior of the cheater: Saying it's "not that great" instead of "It's wrong". See, it really is good behavior, just not great behavior.

The best of all though is attacking you for "snooping". See, if you catch someone screwing your best friend, but you hid in the closet to catch them, then you are just as much to blame. This is one of the most important tactics in the tool kit of manipulative people: blame-shifting. Sure, I was robbing the bank - but you had a hidden camera so it's your fault. lol.

While we are busy blaming the victim, let's also say she is cheating because he is older. Yeah, that's a great excuse, and boy it's a "large part" of her cheating too. No way we can have even a teensy-weensy bit of blame on her for having bad character. Everyone knows that a good wife is out there chasing other men and destroying his home, his career, and his life. If she is a lot younger, then you deserved it.

Now, a manipulative person also conceals his attack with a smile and a wish for "good luck" while he is busy twisting the knife in your back. He's really a great friend doing his best to lift up your spirits by saying you are over-reacting, she isn't doing anything wrong, but it is your fault she is doing something wrong.

I recommend for just about everyone that they read a book called "In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People". It is a quick read and identifies all of the tactics manipulative people use by name. They really aren't very smart people - they just have no conscience about hurting others. It's kind of a sport to them. They learn these tactics at very young ages - children try to manipulate us and we have to teach them to have a conscience. But these people don't develop a conscience and instead keep getting more and more practice at manipulating. They learn a small number of tactics can be applied to innumerable situations. When you see a person using these tactics - you know everything you need to know about them. Avoid them. Because this is all they know. People are objects they use for their own ends.

In long distance relationships, manipulative people find good cover because it is harder to keep an eye on them and a lot about their past can be concealed from you. They have an easier time molding a persona that you want to see instead of revealing who they really are. It is something to be aware of on both sides: the immigrant and the sponsor. But wow, if you do some reading it is amazing how easy it is to spot these people because they all use the same tactics. Just like the fellow above. He's child's play. I have seen the best of them, and this one is just garden variety, no challenge at all.

I met most of the wives here typing their correspondence for them on filipino cupid. A few of them paid cash from their Western Union, but most... oh, nevermind.

How do you know if she is cheating?

That's easy! They do exactly what your wife is doing.

It is called an "emotional affair" when they aren't screwing anyone yet, but there isn't much difference as far as the damage to the relationship. The fact you are suffering and she doesn't care is enough to start exacting some consequences here.

They call it the "180" in relationship jargon where you stop moaning, whining, and arguing with them and instead get your mind right that they have already left the relationship and you now ready yourself for a life without her. Here is the list, and when you review them you will see what the gist is:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/90639/thread/1264072246/last-1278790080/180+-+Handy+Reminder

Instead of begging them, arguing that their behavior is wrong, following them around, asking everyone else to help you, etc. - you busy yourself as you would had you already decided to get divorced. Most especially, stop losing your temper and even caring about what she is up to. Because manipulative people control you best when you are not in control of your emotions. What she is doing is unacceptable regardless of whether she is having sex with someone else. The most damaging things to relationships is the manipulative lying, the guilt-tripping, shaming, playing the servant role (I am concealing my bad behavior for your own good), feigning anger and indignation, gaslighting (making you out to be crazy for questioning their actions) - every cheater uses the same playbook and it is extreme emotional abuse.

There are other things that are going on as well (such as the constantly yelling and controlling nature to the point I may lose my job).

Right. That is generally consistent with people who have checked out of the relationship and are manipulating the other person to their own ends instead of being a loving spouse. Having you in a weakened state is very important to them. This is why it is so important to detach yourself from their manipulative tactics and focus on protecting yourself.

You are sleeping with the enemy, and this is not something having to do with Filipino culture. If a spouse loves you, and something they are doing upsets you like this then they are beside themselves to rush to your aide and fix what is wrong instead of kicking you, scratching your eyes out, and stomping all over your heart.

It is important to understand that the 180 is not a bunch of manipulative tricks to make your spouse love you again. This is literally about healing yourself, making you stronger, and preparing for the inevitable. Wayward spouses notice big time it is happening, but what they do is try to put their affairs deeper underground, use false flattery and etc. to get you back under their control where they can have their cake and eat it too. It is only under the case of complete and unconditional surrender - proof beyond any doubt that she accepts her behavior was wrong, complete cut-off of communications with her affair partners, 100% transparency in cell phone, computer, and social relations etc. that you even consider a future with her.

What could be better? Criminalizing HAVING sex, but legalizing changing sex.

The age of consent for having sex in Oregon is 18. If you touch their weiner, you go to jail for a long time. But if you cut it off, you get paid.

Makes sense to me.

People who choose party affiliation over principle should not be arguing about who is worse.

When it comes to the money behind our government, both parties are serving the same master.

It's pretty important to practice if a person is going to rely on guns. When it comes to pulling the trigger on a living thing, there's some very good research demonstrating that even amongst trained soldiers, there is a surprising degree of unwillingness to shoot at the enemy.

A while back I read "The Psychology of Killing" and loaned it out to someone who left the state, but there is a review here:

http://www.military-sf.com/Killing.htm

lol - the money quote is "When people talk about killing they are like virgins talking about sex". Some surprising data: Only 15% to 20% of the soldiers in WWII, a very bloody conflict indeed, fired at the enemy. In Viet Nam it was a vastly higher rate, but only one in 52,000 bullets killed anyone. lol. A lot of spraying at nothing, as opposed to close-quarter killing of past wars.

In hunting we call it "buck fever" when the state champion marksman is in front of a deer for the first time and he freezes up. Target practice helps, we still need live practice of some sort. I think martial arts, boxing, or some kind of combat sport is going to help rid the freeze-up in a combat situation if it has live sparring. Not to mention the practice at hand-to-hand fighting being good for both confidence and defending yourself. Hunting is going to help of course. But it is really hard to find a place where you can practice shooting at people.

But that universally recognized "Klack Klack" from chambering a round is going to sober up anyone with bad intentions towards you. I haven't found bears to be very bright about it, but humans get the picture.

I was jealous of them. They looked like they were actually in love.

Well that certainly explains things.

I have a friend who is hell-bent on getting married to his K-1 fiance. What they do is scream at each other, and I mean scream. Her slapping him, running away, him telling her to shut up, that she is a liar, etc.

He figures if she gets the green card then she will be grateful and come to love him. She figures putting up with abuse is worth it for now in order to get the green card, as if that were tantamount to an ATM that she can make regular withdrawals from.

It's incredible to watch. I told both of them what a mistake they were making, and have walked away from it. Talk about delusional.

I don't believe romance or lust is the key to a successful marriage - it really is all about communication, mutual expectations, and respect. Arranged marriages work out fine so long as you have those. It doesn't have to be a Romeo and Juliet "love at first sight" romance.

So even if you don't have that romantic love in walking up the aisle, if you can say that you respect and admire your fiance, that they will make a good parent, that you trust them, like each other, that you are looking forward to the mutual plans you have agreed to - you have a good shot. You won't be jealous of what other people have when you have what you want. If you don't know what you want, then it isn't a good idea to get married.