SaharaSunset

I really don't wanna brag, and I know there are a lot of haters out there...but who cares...here's my story....
We drive a 2011 Nissan Rogue S, with a light gray interior which we keep imaculately clean by using 2 rounds of "$1 for 5 minutes" of vaccuming at a local car wash that costs $12 a wash, but we spare no expense because we love each other so much.
We live in my parents Basement and enjoy 3 full rooms, a double shower bathroom and a living room, all decorated to my parent's taste, which shows just how much we love each other.
Sometimes my husband drives my parents spare car, a 1999 Mercury Villager Sport Edition. It doesn't have a working clock but it does have a leather interior which of course shows how much we love each other.
Once a week we get a take and bake pizza from Papa Murphys, half Chicken Garlic and half "Papa's favorite" minus the pepperoni. Then we cook it in a Double Wolf Convect oven that belongs to my parents, and then we eat our pizza using sturdy DIXIE paper plates because we love each other so much.
Sometime we go to the mall and I buy new shirts at Maurices that cost an average of $29.99 which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
Yesterday we bought a HeatDish space heater by PRESTO, for $24.99, to help keep our basement bedroom warm. We paid cash which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
The point is, I am not not bragging and don't want to make anyone jealous, but sometimes you just have to convince others in order to really convince yourself how blissfully wonderous your life is. To the OP - be strong, stay the course, a thousand points of light, and maybe someday your marriage will be as blissfully perfect as mine. Good luck Girlfriend.

I really don't wanna brag, and I know there are a lot of haters out there...but who cares...here's my story....
We drive a 2011 Nissan Rogue S, with a light gray interior which we keep imaculately clean by using 2 rounds of "$1 for 5 minutes" of vaccuming at a local car wash that costs $12 a wash, but we spare no expense because we love each other so much.
We live in my parents Basement and enjoy 3 full rooms, a double shower bathroom and a living room, all decorated to my parent's taste, which shows just how much we love each other.
Sometimes my husband drives my parents spare car, a 1999 Mercury Villager Sport Edition. It doesn't have a working clock but it does have a leather interior which of course shows how much we love each other.
Once a week we get a take and bake pizza from Papa Murphys, half Chicken Garlic and half "Papa's favorite" minus the pepperoni. Then we cook it in a Double Wolf Convect oven that belongs to my parents, and then we eat our pizza using sturdy DIXIE paper plates because we love each other so much.
Sometime we go to the mall and I buy new shirts at Maurices that cost an average of $29.99 which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
Yesterday we bought a HeatDish space heater by PRESTO, for $24.99, to help keep our basement bedroom warm. We paid cash which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
The point is, I am not not bragging and don't want to make anyone jealous, but sometimes you just have to convince others in order to really convince yourself how blissfully wonderous your life is. To the OP - be strong, stay the course, a thousand points of light, and maybe someday your marriage will be as blissfully perfect as mine. Good luck Girlfriend.

I really don't wanna brag, and I know there are a lot of haters out there...but who cares...here's my story....
We drive a 2011 Nissan Rogue S, with a light gray interior which we keep imaculately clean by using 2 rounds of "$1 for 5 minutes" of vaccuming at a local car wash that costs $12 a wash, but we spare no expense because we love each other so much.
We live in my parents Basement and enjoy 3 full rooms, a double shower bathroom and a living room, all decorated to my parent's taste, which shows just how much we love each other.
Sometimes my husband drives my parents spare car, a 1999 Mercury Villager Sport Edition. It doesn't have a working clock but it does have a leather interior which of course shows how much we love each other.
Once a week we get a take and bake pizza from Papa Murphys, half Chicken Garlic and half "Papa's favorite" minus the pepperoni. Then we cook it in a Double Wolf Convect oven that belongs to my parents, and then we eat our pizza using sturdy DIXIE paper plates because we love each other so much.
Sometime we go to the mall and I buy new shirts at Maurices that cost an average of $29.99 which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
Yesterday we bought a HeatDish space heater by PRESTO, for $24.99, to help keep our basement bedroom warm. We paid cash which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
The point is, I am not not bragging and don't want to make anyone jealous, but sometimes you just have to convince others in order to really convince yourself how blissfully wonderous your life is. To the OP - be strong, stay the course, a thousand points of light, and maybe someday your marriage will be as blissfully perfect as mine. Good luck Girlfriend.

I really don't wanna brag, and I know there are a lot of haters out there...but who cares...here's my story....
We drive a 2011 Nissan Rogue S, with a light gray interior which we keep imaculately clean by using 2 rounds of "$1 for 5 minutes" of vaccuming at a local car wash that costs $12 a wash, but we spare no expense because we love each other so much.
We live in my parents Basement and enjoy 3 full rooms, a double shower bathroom and a living room, all decorated to my parent's taste, which shows just how much we love each other.
Sometimes my husband drives my parents spare car, a 1999 Mercury Villager Sport Edition. It doesn't have a working clock but it does have a leather interior which of course shows how much we love each other.
Once a week we get a take and bake pizza from Papa Murphys, half Chicken Garlic and half "Papa's favorite" minus the pepperoni. Then we cook it in a Double Wolf Convect oven that belongs to my parents, and then we eat our pizza using sturdy DIXIE paper plates because we love each other so much.
Sometime we go to the mall and I buy new shirts at Maurices that cost an average of $29.99 which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
Yesterday we bought a HeatDish space heater by PRESTO, for $24.99, to help keep our basement bedroom warm. We paid cash which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
The point is, I am not not bragging and don't want to make anyone jealous, but sometimes you just have to convince others in order to really convince yourself how blissfully wonderous your life is. To the OP - be strong, stay the course, a thousand points of light, and maybe someday your marriage will be as blissfully perfect as mine. Good luck Girlfriend.

I really don't wanna brag, and I know there are a lot of haters out there...but who cares...here's my story....
We drive a 2011 Nissan Rogue S, with a light gray interior which we keep imaculately clean by using 2 rounds of "$1 for 5 minutes" of vaccuming at a local car wash that costs $12 a wash, but we spare no expense because we love each other so much.
We live in my parents Basement and enjoy 3 full rooms, a double shower bathroom and a living room, all decorated to my parent's taste, which shows just how much we love each other.
Sometimes my husband drives my parents spare car, a 1999 Mercury Villager Sport Edition. It doesn't have a working clock but it does have a leather interior which of course shows how much we love each other.
Once a week we get a take and bake pizza from Papa Murphys, half Chicken Garlic and half "Papa's favorite" minus the pepperoni. Then we cook it in a Double Wolf Convect oven that belongs to my parents, and then we eat our pizza using sturdy DIXIE paper plates because we love each other so much.
Sometime we go to the mall and I buy new shirts at Maurices that cost an average of $29.99 which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
Yesterday we bought a HeatDish space heater by PRESTO, for $24.99, to help keep our basement bedroom warm. We paid cash which of course proves we are so blissfully in love.
The point is, I am not not bragging and don't want to make anyone jealous, but sometimes you just have to convince others in order to really convince yourself how blissfully wonderous your life is. To the OP - be strong, stay the course, a thousand points of light, and maybe someday your marriage will be as blissfully perfect as mine. Good luck Girlfriend.

Wise self-advice I also think you should really really really try to make a trip there in the summer happen. I'm sure you want to anyway, but I think it would help your case as well. Plus it will give you lots of memories to store up for those long months apart. And finally, regarding your "red flags"...you are the only one who knows what is between you and your husband...trust your instincts, and listen to them too. I think your instincts about putting in the work before relying on God, do you credit. And to that I would add, love doesn't conquer all when it comes to this visa ordeal...being very very well prepared is what conquers all at the consulates Cheers!

Wise self-advice I also think you should really really really try to make a trip there in the summer happen. I'm sure you want to anyway, but I think it would help your case as well. Plus it will give you lots of memories to store up for those long months apart. And finally, regarding your "red flags"...you are the only one who knows what is between you and your husband...trust your instincts, and listen to them too. I think your instincts about putting in the work before relying on God, do you credit. And to that I would add, love doesn't conquer all when it comes to this visa ordeal...being very very well prepared is what conquers all at the consulates Cheers!

Wise self-advice I also think you should really really really try to make a trip there in the summer happen. I'm sure you want to anyway, but I think it would help your case as well. Plus it will give you lots of memories to store up for those long months apart. And finally, regarding your "red flags"...you are the only one who knows what is between you and your husband...trust your instincts, and listen to them too. I think your instincts about putting in the work before relying on God, do you credit. And to that I would add, love doesn't conquer all when it comes to this visa ordeal...being very very well prepared is what conquers all at the consulates Cheers!

Well I for one am outraged!!! This "undocumented immigrant" BS kills me! Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL. If something like this does pass, I want a refund for all the fee's, time, and emotional energy we put into doing this all legally. I'm gonna sue the US government for a cool mil. That should cover the "pain & suffering" we experienced in our forced separation of a year, lawyer fees, time lost from work etc, while going through immigration legally. And I sure as hell am not filling out one more scrap of paperwork, or paying one more fee in this process. We'll just ride the amnesty wave.
If illegals have to go through the same rigorous process as the rest of us, and risk not being accepted and being sent home, just like those of us who did it legally - then I'm all for it. Let them eat cake! And if we want to fix the process I'm fine with that too. It ridiculous I agree. But if all the illegals that are here now benefit from the "fix" - then all the "legals" should benefit well.

Well I for one am outraged!!! This "undocumented immigrant" BS kills me! Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL. If something like this does pass, I want a refund for all the fee's, time, and emotional energy we put into doing this all legally. I'm gonna sue the US government for a cool mil. That should cover the "pain & suffering" we experienced in our forced separation of a year, lawyer fees, time lost from work etc, while going through immigration legally. And I sure as hell am not filling out one more scrap of paperwork, or paying one more fee in this process. We'll just ride the amnesty wave.
If illegals have to go through the same rigorous process as the rest of us, and risk not being accepted and being sent home, just like those of us who did it legally - then I'm all for it. Let them eat cake! And if we want to fix the process I'm fine with that too. It ridiculous I agree. But if all the illegals that are here now benefit from the "fix" - then all the "legals" should benefit well.

Well I for one am outraged!!! This "undocumented immigrant" BS kills me! Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL. If something like this does pass, I want a refund for all the fee's, time, and emotional energy we put into doing this all legally. I'm gonna sue the US government for a cool mil. That should cover the "pain & suffering" we experienced in our forced separation of a year, lawyer fees, time lost from work etc, while going through immigration legally. And I sure as hell am not filling out one more scrap of paperwork, or paying one more fee in this process. We'll just ride the amnesty wave.
If illegals have to go through the same rigorous process as the rest of us, and risk not being accepted and being sent home, just like those of us who did it legally - then I'm all for it. Let them eat cake! And if we want to fix the process I'm fine with that too. It ridiculous I agree. But if all the illegals that are here now benefit from the "fix" - then all the "legals" should benefit well.

Well I'm going to be in the minority here....I believe that everyone has their own way of dealing with relationship breakups, abuse, etc. Some people can shrug them off and move on, others need to talk about it as in therapy to understand and get past it and forget about it, some never really forget about it.....but that doesn't mean they can't move on and into friendships or a healthy relationship at some point. Everyone is different and for some, "taking time" means more sitting around dwelling on it, trying to make sense out of it, and more feeling sorry for yourself. Meeting people and getting out socially can make that person feel good about themselves again. Having someone to talk to, laugh with, share thoughts with.... Life is too short for so much sadness. I say enjoy your new friend and find some happiness again

I've been reading this thread with interest...And I'm gonna go out on limb here...
I know its quite hip to suggest that true healing can only be found if your heal "yourself" and love yourself etc. I don't necessarily disagree with that, I do think there is great value in having a healthy sense of self worth...but...
I think what I feel is said best in a quote from Les Mis: "To love another person is to see the face of God..."
I feel like there is such incredible healing power in loving someone else. I have been self critical of my body since I was 10. Sad, I know - the curse of being a woman perhaps. And when I met my husband, I was still super critical of my not being a size 0. Some would say I should have learned to love myself more before I got in a relationship. But, the incredible thing is, loving my husband, even with his imperfections, has actually helped me be more accepting of myself. And yes, the fact that he loves me despite my imperfections makes me feel wonderful....but its fleeting. The real healing for me has come from truly, deeply loving someone else despite their flaws. That I could never have done on my own.
Again, I do think there is a place for developing a healthy sense of self worth. And I also think that sex and love are not one in the same. I do not think that sex alone has the same healing power as love. So I am not advocating seeking "sexual healing." But, real love is a wonderful, powerful thing. And I just don't know if avoiding "falling in love" with someone, because of past trauma being "unhealed" is the best solution. I know some people feel that always wanting and needing to love and be loved is a sign of weakness...but I don't think it always is that. I believe we are meant to be with someone. We are not meant to be alone and to struggle to find supreme happiness being alone. For people that are able to find happiness alone, they are blessed and fortunate. But I don't think we all need to find that. I believe there is, in all of us, an innate need for love and companionship. And I am going to venture to say that if "Beauty" feels that this man she's met is a good, kind, loving man - then the relationship may bring more healing than could ever happen on her own.
So to "Beauty" - he sounds wonderful. Best of luck to you. And I think all "good men" are a gift from heaven....maybe especially the ones from Morocco My Moroccan husband is the most sensitive, affectionate, passionate, sincere, sweet, generous, wonderful man I have ever met. I'm not sure if that's because he Moroccan, or just because he is wonderful...but love is fabulous, and I hope everyone is blessed with true, sincere, pure love...broken or unbroken, we all need it

Its not about people being "too young"...the red flag would be a YOUNG Moroccan man + a much older American woman...that's the combo that seems to have a rough time. And I think many of the "horror stories" about denials, unfortunately, had this red flag in particular, and often other issues, like incomplete info, not enough evidence etc. And I think lots of people come here because they have drama and need help. The ones that fly through without a problem have no need for extra help and suggestions and may not even come to a website like this. And I do think doing the interview in English is a good thing (my husband did the same - we got our K-1 without any drama)...they want to know that you can really truly communicate, beyond just "whispering sweet nothings" Hopefully you're close in age, because it sounds like you're good to go in everything else....and even if you're not close in age, plenty still get approved, I wouldn't stress too much.

Abuse is a terrible thing that no person should experience. But Marriage fraud is a separate issue. Its unfortunate the OP doesn't want to respond further because I feel like the original post is actually NOT helpful at all. And I believe she genuinely wanted to be. The post makes sweeping and negative generalizations about Moroccan men, but offers no insight as to the "red flags" she encountered, or the "intuition" she wishes she'd listened to in regard to the "fraud" part of the relationship. Those things would be productive and possibly helpful, as opposed to insulting to the many American women here happily married to good, sincere Moroccan men.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just don't like when people blame or stereotype an entire group, instead of blaming the individual people actually involved. Its like people saying Muslims have very "high instances" of terrorism because of the stories they've seen in the news about Muslim terrorists. Its ridiculous!
I am sorry for the pain the OP must be going through. Heartbreak and betrayal are some of the most painful experiences there are - its like dying a slow painful death, but being forced to keep living. Its terrible. I empathize. But I just think most people in love are so swooned, that generic "fraud warnings" and negative generalizations, born of personal hurt, will always fall on deaf ears and are counter-productive. That include the generic warnings of the US State Department. Specific personal instances of suspicious "fraud" behavior being described, and/or specific foreboding intuative thoughts a person had, might resonate and prove helpful. Maybe.
People are not prone to fraud because of their country of origin, or level of poverty - people are prone to fraud because of their lack of a moral compass...and that's really what all men and women should be "aware of" in any relationship....not the country their loved one comes from.

Abuse is a terrible thing that no person should experience. But Marriage fraud is a separate issue. Its unfortunate the OP doesn't want to respond further because I feel like the original post is actually NOT helpful at all. And I believe she genuinely wanted to be. The post makes sweeping and negative generalizations about Moroccan men, but offers no insight as to the "red flags" she encountered, or the "intuition" she wishes she'd listened to in regard to the "fraud" part of the relationship. Those things would be productive and possibly helpful, as opposed to insulting to the many American women here happily married to good, sincere Moroccan men.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just don't like when people blame or stereotype an entire group, instead of blaming the individual people actually involved. Its like people saying Muslims have very "high instances" of terrorism because of the stories they've seen in the news about Muslim terrorists. Its ridiculous!
I am sorry for the pain the OP must be going through. Heartbreak and betrayal are some of the most painful experiences there are - its like dying a slow painful death, but being forced to keep living. Its terrible. I empathize. But I just think most people in love are so swooned, that generic "fraud warnings" and negative generalizations, born of personal hurt, will always fall on deaf ears and are counter-productive. That include the generic warnings of the US State Department. Specific personal instances of suspicious "fraud" behavior being described, and/or specific foreboding intuative thoughts a person had, might resonate and prove helpful. Maybe.
People are not prone to fraud because of their country of origin, or level of poverty - people are prone to fraud because of their lack of a moral compass...and that's really what all men and women should be "aware of" in any relationship....not the country their loved one comes from.

Abuse is a terrible thing that no person should experience. But Marriage fraud is a separate issue. Its unfortunate the OP doesn't want to respond further because I feel like the original post is actually NOT helpful at all. And I believe she genuinely wanted to be. The post makes sweeping and negative generalizations about Moroccan men, but offers no insight as to the "red flags" she encountered, or the "intuition" she wishes she'd listened to in regard to the "fraud" part of the relationship. Those things would be productive and possibly helpful, as opposed to insulting to the many American women here happily married to good, sincere Moroccan men.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just don't like when people blame or stereotype an entire group, instead of blaming the individual people actually involved. Its like people saying Muslims have very "high instances" of terrorism because of the stories they've seen in the news about Muslim terrorists. Its ridiculous!
I am sorry for the pain the OP must be going through. Heartbreak and betrayal are some of the most painful experiences there are - its like dying a slow painful death, but being forced to keep living. Its terrible. I empathize. But I just think most people in love are so swooned, that generic "fraud warnings" and negative generalizations, born of personal hurt, will always fall on deaf ears and are counter-productive. That include the generic warnings of the US State Department. Specific personal instances of suspicious "fraud" behavior being described, and/or specific foreboding intuative thoughts a person had, might resonate and prove helpful. Maybe.
People are not prone to fraud because of their country of origin, or level of poverty - people are prone to fraud because of their lack of a moral compass...and that's really what all men and women should be "aware of" in any relationship....not the country their loved one comes from.

Abuse is a terrible thing that no person should experience. But Marriage fraud is a separate issue. Its unfortunate the OP doesn't want to respond further because I feel like the original post is actually NOT helpful at all. And I believe she genuinely wanted to be. The post makes sweeping and negative generalizations about Moroccan men, but offers no insight as to the "red flags" she encountered, or the "intuition" she wishes she'd listened to in regard to the "fraud" part of the relationship. Those things would be productive and possibly helpful, as opposed to insulting to the many American women here happily married to good, sincere Moroccan men.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just don't like when people blame or stereotype an entire group, instead of blaming the individual people actually involved. Its like people saying Muslims have very "high instances" of terrorism because of the stories they've seen in the news about Muslim terrorists. Its ridiculous!
I am sorry for the pain the OP must be going through. Heartbreak and betrayal are some of the most painful experiences there are - its like dying a slow painful death, but being forced to keep living. Its terrible. I empathize. But I just think most people in love are so swooned, that generic "fraud warnings" and negative generalizations, born of personal hurt, will always fall on deaf ears and are counter-productive. That include the generic warnings of the US State Department. Specific personal instances of suspicious "fraud" behavior being described, and/or specific foreboding intuative thoughts a person had, might resonate and prove helpful. Maybe.
People are not prone to fraud because of their country of origin, or level of poverty - people are prone to fraud because of their lack of a moral compass...and that's really what all men and women should be "aware of" in any relationship....not the country their loved one comes from.

Abuse is a terrible thing that no person should experience. But Marriage fraud is a separate issue. Its unfortunate the OP doesn't want to respond further because I feel like the original post is actually NOT helpful at all. And I believe she genuinely wanted to be. The post makes sweeping and negative generalizations about Moroccan men, but offers no insight as to the "red flags" she encountered, or the "intuition" she wishes she'd listened to in regard to the "fraud" part of the relationship. Those things would be productive and possibly helpful, as opposed to insulting to the many American women here happily married to good, sincere Moroccan men.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just don't like when people blame or stereotype an entire group, instead of blaming the individual people actually involved. Its like people saying Muslims have very "high instances" of terrorism because of the stories they've seen in the news about Muslim terrorists. Its ridiculous!
I am sorry for the pain the OP must be going through. Heartbreak and betrayal are some of the most painful experiences there are - its like dying a slow painful death, but being forced to keep living. Its terrible. I empathize. But I just think most people in love are so swooned, that generic "fraud warnings" and negative generalizations, born of personal hurt, will always fall on deaf ears and are counter-productive. That include the generic warnings of the US State Department. Specific personal instances of suspicious "fraud" behavior being described, and/or specific foreboding intuative thoughts a person had, might resonate and prove helpful. Maybe.
People are not prone to fraud because of their country of origin, or level of poverty - people are prone to fraud because of their lack of a moral compass...and that's really what all men and women should be "aware of" in any relationship....not the country their loved one comes from.

Abuse is a terrible thing that no person should experience. But Marriage fraud is a separate issue. Its unfortunate the OP doesn't want to respond further because I feel like the original post is actually NOT helpful at all. And I believe she genuinely wanted to be. The post makes sweeping and negative generalizations about Moroccan men, but offers no insight as to the "red flags" she encountered, or the "intuition" she wishes she'd listened to in regard to the "fraud" part of the relationship. Those things would be productive and possibly helpful, as opposed to insulting to the many American women here happily married to good, sincere Moroccan men.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just don't like when people blame or stereotype an entire group, instead of blaming the individual people actually involved. Its like people saying Muslims have very "high instances" of terrorism because of the stories they've seen in the news about Muslim terrorists. Its ridiculous!
I am sorry for the pain the OP must be going through. Heartbreak and betrayal are some of the most painful experiences there are - its like dying a slow painful death, but being forced to keep living. Its terrible. I empathize. But I just think most people in love are so swooned, that generic "fraud warnings" and negative generalizations, born of personal hurt, will always fall on deaf ears and are counter-productive. That include the generic warnings of the US State Department. Specific personal instances of suspicious "fraud" behavior being described, and/or specific foreboding intuative thoughts a person had, might resonate and prove helpful. Maybe.
People are not prone to fraud because of their country of origin, or level of poverty - people are prone to fraud because of their lack of a moral compass...and that's really what all men and women should be "aware of" in any relationship....not the country their loved one comes from.

Some people argue against the comparison of homosexuality to other acts that are considered sexually deviant. For example the comparison of the sexual preference in homosexuality to that of a 50 year old man wanting to be with a 12 year old girl. They argue that "its different" - "homosexuality involves consenting adults." I too shudder at such a scenario. But, if you use the same logic about why we must accept homosexuality, you really must argue for the rights of that 50 year old man and his 12 year old lover. The trouble is, Homosexuality is going against a social norm that has existed since the dawn of civilization. So, one could argue that if homosexuals have a right to break out of their social stigma, why not the 50 year man? Who decides what is socially acceptable? Why isn't it relative to the humans involved, as it is with homosexuality? If its acceptable to them, then shouldn't all be required to accept it?
We all know that in the world today, societies exist where polygamy is the social norm. Yet in America we mock those "crazy Mormons" and their 6 wives (which p.s., officially ended in the Mormon church back in the 1890's). We shudder at men who have such a voracious sexual appetite as to want multiple wives. And we laugh at those backwoods, incestuous hillbillies and their disgusting sexual preferences of immediate family members. But we have no grounds to feel that way. Why do we believe our views to be superior to the social standards of others? Why? Because we have created social standards about acceptable sexual partnerships regarding age and relation...and we used to have them regarding homosexuality. But social norms are shifting. And the argument can be made that if we embrace what was formerly considered sexually deviant based on nothing but the current "wave" of social standards, then what stops us from eventually being asked to embrace everyone's sexual preferences?
Take for example the "50 yr old/ 12 yr old" relationship. Today, this relationship is forbidden, even illegal, based 100% on our socially constructed ideals about the appropriate age of independence and self governance, aka: adulthood. But you must know that "adulthood" standards vary time in history, by society, individuals, and a wide range of other social factors. Bear in mind, this age taboo is not based on ANYTHING else - pure social standards. Technically a 12 year girl who has started her period can give birth to a child and therefore, by all physical logic, is capable of adulthood. It is purely social standards by which we consider her still a "child." Society can argue that a 50 year old man and a 12 year old girl together is "sexually deviant" until they are blue in the face, but it will ALWAYS be subject to the current "social cultural norms and standards" of that society. It will never be an irrefutable fact. Homosexuality on the other hand, can be argued against based on irrefutable physical evidence. So lets take out the social element. The biggest social factor against homosexuality is found in religion. And while religious objection must be considered a viable objection, for arguments sake, let take out the social/religious standard, and base an argument against homosexuality on, factual, physical, human processes.
It is a simple fact, whether you believe in God, or science, or any other version of how we came to be, that the physical act of sex is the means and the method for the pro-creation of life. Yes sex is about love(social standard), and its fun, and although enjoyable, we all know its real purpose. Kind of like food. Its fun, its enjoyable - but its real purpose is to fuel us and help us sustain life. So lets not get side tracked by emphasizing other uses and social standards about the purpose of sex. Our argument is taking out the social elements and focusing on physical fact. Sex is technically a physical process to create life.
Technically speaking, if a man and man have "sex" and the process does not create life, then their "sexual" behavior does not follow the natural functions intended by the human body. Without getting too graphic, when a man and a woman unite in the proper "channels" - they CAN create life, provided that all internal systems are functioning properly. And spare me the silly arguments of "What about infertile couples?" etc. Even if two men have all internal and external organs functioning properly, under no circumstances can they create life, without the help of 3rd party woman. We are not talking about a malfunction of ones natural body, as is the case in infertility. Nor are we discussing the natural aging process that prevents fertility in post-menopausal women etc. We are talking about a physical act, homosexuality, that was clearly never physically intended for the human body. I know its highly Un-PC to say it like this, but it is NOT natural. And I say that with zero "social standards" - I say it based purely on the physical process of pro-creation. Its just the facts.
Now, before I get lynched, allow me to offer this statement. I can love and appreciate individuals that are homosexual just like any other human being - and believe it or not, I do. I do not think they are evil, or terrible people in any way. However I do NOT think that means I MUST embrace homosexuality as natural and normal. It's not. Do I have a firm stance on same sex marriage? I frankly think the whole argument about same sex marriage is really just a bid for social approval of homosexuality and has very little to do with the title of marriage itself. I do however believe that nature, God, or whomever you want to give credit to, intended for men and women to be together as parents. I also think that the best case scenario for children is to have a mother and father, male and female. Science also proves that. Does that mean that two gay parents can't bring up a child in a loving home? Of course they can. But again, it is not natural, and it not the best case scenario. And yes I am fully aware of bad situations involving father/mother households, and single parents etc. But comparing apples to apples, if all other factors equal, in a side by side scenario comparison of 2 sets of loving parents, one homosexual, one heterosexual- physical evidence in the natural process of the human body, clearly considers a man and woman as the superior union.
Now, you can call me closed-minded if you want. But you must see the irony, because the very moment you label someone as "close-minded," you yourself are refusing to accept their views, however "offensive" you may deem them, and therefore you are being "close-minded" yourself. Ironic huh? You cannot be "Open-minded" unless you are "open" to ALL views....not just what it's currently trendy to be "open" about, and not just what you and other supposedly "open-minded" people have deemed good and right. If you are truly open-mind then you will be open to other views even if they they differ from yours, or don't follow the latest trend. You don't have to agree - but if you get angry and mad, and call someone backwards or ignorant or other silly Jr High things, just because of different views....then perhaps its a bit of pot calling the kettle black.
Now why take the time to write this? Because frankly it drives me crazy that some people condescendingly feel that any views opposing homosexuality are offensive, backward, ignorant, or worse yet- bigotry. My argument is simply an attempt to prove that even if you take away the social or religious objections(which are very valid), there is still a logical, physical reason why it is acceptable and totally okay for people NOT to accept homosexuality, no matter how much the "wave" of social pressure pushes them. As I stated before, I have no ill will towards homosexuals....but I also do not have to accept their lifestyle choices as normal and natural. I can love people, but I hope we are never forced to accept the sexual lifestyle choices of all people. I and millions of others should be entitled to stand for something that consequently can be argued both socially, and factually, without being accused of bigotry. I'm just a lover...not a hater

Maven, you are the classic arch type of why I wrote the original post. So quick to accuse me of hating. So full of righteous indignation you can't see straight. I simply do NOT hate all homosexuals. Unlike so many here who profess to be good and loving of all peoples(as they viciously attack anyone who doesn't agree with homosexuality) - I do hate some things....but I can say in all honestly I have never felt hatred for someone because the are gay. Of course in your rage of ignorance you would never believe me, but frankly I find your ignorant rage more pathetic than upsetting. Love is not defined by accepting 100% the choices of another person...if that were true, there would be no love in this world. We love people without approving of every part of them. And if I'm not mistaken, homosexuality may define sexual preference....but it is not all there is to a person.
And you are absolutely right - marriage is NOT only about sex....but homosexuality is. It is lifestyle and definition based PURELY on sexual orientation. But as I just said, sexual orientation is just a side of of who a human being is. But I also believe that marriage is not a right, its a title. And while I do think everyone should be treated equally, that doesn't neccesarily mean we all need to have the same "titles." If you actually read any of my posts (while removing your intent to see prejudice and hate) you may have noticed that I have stated on numerous occasions I fully support homosexual couples having all the rights and happiness of everyone else. True "rights." In point of fact I did not at any time state they should not have those rights - nor did I ever say they shouldn't be able to marry and call it marriage. My current leanings are to leave marriage as a "man and woman" - but unlike you, I am open to changing my opinion - given an argument not laced with rage. I'll never agree that homosexuality is right and natural. But I do not equate that with any hatred, or even with believing homosexuals shouldn't be able to marry. Again, your blind rage glossed over that all important fact.
The problem with folks like you Maven is that although you are obviously intelligent, your personal prejudice and hatred of people who do not support homosexuality has blinded you. The sad reality is you are drawing a line in the sand, when there doesn't need to be one. Why can't we find a solution for people like me - Good people who do care about others, honestly have no hatred towards homosexuals, but also have personal morals about what is right and wrong in life. You'd be so much more productive trying to find a middle ground, than just flying off the handle and calling people "turds." I personally think there is a solution - but as long as people see this as purely a hate and prejudice issue, nothing else, then there will always be a fight.

Pretty sure I didn't tell anyone to stop doing what I don't like. Yep, I didn't. And yet you apparently DO feel you have the need and right to call out other people who disagree with you, and essentially tell them to stop having their opinions by calling it "offensive #######"...among other colorful things. Just a wee bit hypocritical don't ya think?

Pretty sure I didn't mention any laws against homosexuals being created. Yep, I didn't. Although its pretty humorous that you would want laws (legalizing same sex marriage) forcing people to accept your personal views of the world. Kind of a contradiction don't ya think?
And what exactly was offensive? How I proved homosexuality goes against the natural function of the human body? I was simply offering a different means to validating the position on homosexuality of the majority of the human race. Never did I mention a single derogatory statement regarding homosexuality. Not one. I didn't compare homosexuals to child molesters. Maybe you should read posts more carefully before you leap up on your precariously positioned soap box. I simply want to be free to believe what I do without being called offensive.

Ain't it the truth! Especially if "Offensive" is defined as "doesn't agree with me." What a terrible way to live, being endlessly offended by differing view points.