how to best use the 90 days prior to marriage k-1

[bakofoil 27]

Me and my fiance are extremely fond of each other, but we are not deeply in love yet. I could easily say we love each other, but we are both rationalists. We realize that it love, or the notion of love, at such an early stage of a relationship is more of a state of mind rather than a tried and tested cement between us. So we do not put on any airs to act otherwise. We have discussed this in great length and we have decided to base our marriage on respect and place our trust in each other. We both are 100% confident that we will grow to love each other deeply because we are going to build our marriage on a greater foundation than emotions.

I do not mean to discount any of you who are marrying and basing the foundation on your marriage on love. I only wanted to illustrate that it is ok to have a variety of reasons to initally marry. It is what you do in that marriage that will make it valid or a sham.

I think you make a valid point here. Love can sometimes be a state of mind. I have had enough relationships (not that many though! ) to know that feelings of love can be part of the euphoria and buzz of those first few months with someone and not necessarily because you are in love. Love is complex and individual and there is so much more to a lasting successful relationship than 'being in love'. Personally I would rather work on the bricks and mortar of a relationship knowing the cement is there rather than work on falling in love after meeting someone who meets all my practical needs, if that makes sense.

I don't want this to sound like I am discounting your reasoning either, because I can sense from your words that you and your partner have a deep respect for one another and that you have a practical and rational explanation for not basing your feelings on love alone. You are of course completely correct that your actions during the marriage are what will make or break it and respect for one another is probably the key factor in making it a success.

You can bet your azz that if you said it was a ''trial period' or 'cooling off' period, that you'd never have gotten approved. I think you're being a bit semantical in nature here...because while it's not a problem to marry at the end of the 90, it's not designed for the purpose of 'cooling off'. I mean focking hell, your fiance just got here and you're gonna 'cool off'????

Well unless someone can dig the actual intent of the 90 days out of Google or something, I don't think the argument of why there is a 90 day period is ..going to be settled. I think it can be inferred though, since 90 days is a pretty significant period.

And fine, I'll concede that "cooling off" was a poor choice of words, although quite frankly I don't think it's all that far off. MANY couples in the US these days live together before marrying, just to make sure they're doing the right thing. Call it cooling off, or a trial period or whatever. It happens, and although it may not be everyone's visions of rainbows and unicorns, it works for a lot of people. If both people are in agreement that they will use the 90 days in this manner, who are we to question it? If, on the other hand, only one partner sees it this way, then that's a problem.

In any case, I'll try this again: moving to a new country away from your friends and your family is a HUGE deal. Some people who had the best of intentions simply cannot deal with that shock. They love their partners, but ultimately cannot deal with the new life. It happens, and it happens a lot. There's no shame in taking the time available to make sure it's going to work. OTOH, some people just "know" and that's cool too.

I notice the most vehement opposition is coming from westerners, with the notable exception of pushbrk. It's one thing to move from Canada or Britain (where I lived for 3 years) to the US. Try moving from Malaysia or Russia or Japan. That's practically a move to another planet.

Why am I hearing that it's the 'big bad gov'ts fault for making me marry a stranger'? Big deal...it's practically another planet...there is plenty of opportunity for the USC to go there....you know, to take responsibility for their own relationship instead of b!tching about gov't restraints.

Again...you say 'cooling off' was a bad choice of words, then you say 'let's call it a cooling off'! That's so funny. But it's NOT a cooling off period...and furthermore...if the period was 180 days...I'm sure many would abuse it for the 'trial' aspect. Hey, if it doesn't work, ship her back and get a new one, eh?

But why a USC would delay getting their foreign partner on the path to a greencard is astounding.

You know what? If people have doubts and they still bring their partners over....they know what's what. Let's not even pretend that every marriage is full of love in the traditional sense....There are many lonely USCs and many desperate foreign SOs. And each benefits from the union. So hey...everyone's happy I suppose....but people need to realize what they have and not try putting lipstick on a pig making it be something else. If you're marrying someone you don't know....and you've uprooted that person from everything in her life....well 90 days isn't going to make a helluva lot of a difference, really. 'oh I didn't know her when she came, but 89 days later, we're soulmates!'

I mean really. Buyer Beware and all that jazz.....

Don't use the 80s to justify marrying a stranger.

And don't take me out of context. I'm saying that the K-1 dates back to the '80's, when many of the assumptions that are being made in this argument didn't apply.

And btw, did you actually READ your letter of intent that you signed?

No, I just signed it. What's it say?

Don't be snide. It doesn't suit the conversation.

Everything you said here makes complete sense Lisa. It irks me somewhat that people appear to be taking this process so lightly.

I am particularly amused though by the lipstick on a pig remark.

[Caladan 19]

Exactly. It's not a glorified tourist visa.

You can get married toward the end of 90 days if you want, but if you go into the interview and say 'Well, I'm not sure if I want to marry her because I don't actually know if I can trust her not to use me for a green card but I have 90 days to return her if it doesn't work out' I'd bet that doesn't end with a 'sure sir enjoy the 90 days.'

We married around day 60 or 61 of the visa. C. moved down that early because we had to attend (useless) marriage prep classes with the church. We used the time to finish up wedding planning and to set up the apartment.

And no one should say the only basis for marriage must be Western-style love. But keylogging isn't something you do to someone you know, respect, and trust.

[Fandango 1,440]

Exactly. It's not a glorified tourist visa.

You can get married toward the end of 90 days if you want, but if you go into the interview and say 'Well, I'm not sure if I want to marry her because I don't actually know if I can trust her not to use me for a green card but I have 90 days to return her if it doesn't work out' I'd bet that doesn't end with a 'sure sir enjoy the 90 days.'

We married around day 60 or 61 of the visa. C. moved down that early because we had to attend (useless) marriage prep classes with the church. We used the time to finish up wedding planning and to set up the apartment.

And no one should say the only basis for marriage must be Western-style love. But keylogging isn't something you do to someone you know, respect, and trust.

There is a 20% restocking fee for all defective returns, mind you

*waves* to Babblesgirl! ty

Edited October 24, 2007 by LisaD

[LoriLawless 1]

Exactly. It's not a glorified tourist visa.

You can get married toward the end of 90 days if you want, but if you go into the interview and say 'Well, I'm not sure if I want to marry her because I don't actually know if I can trust her not to use me for a green card but I have 90 days to return her if it doesn't work out' I'd bet that doesn't end with a 'sure sir enjoy the 90 days.'

We married around day 60 or 61 of the visa. C. moved down that early because we had to attend (useless) marriage prep classes with the church. We used the time to finish up wedding planning and to set up the apartment.

And no one should say the only basis for marriage must be Western-style love. But keylogging isn't something you do to someone you know, respect, and trust.

There is a 20% restocking fee for all defective returns, mind you

Ok that, and the pig with lipstick comment -

Edited October 24, 2007 by LoriLawless

[Caladan 19]

Hey, he's the one acting like she isn't a person with her own wants and desires, just property, not me.

[Fandango 1,440]

Hey, he's the one acting like she isn't a person with her own wants and desires, just property, not me.

I am in total agreement, C....my sarcasm wasn't directed at you.

Babblesgirl....I'm on a roll, eh?

[eric_and_teresa 10]

But what the OP is describing isn't an adjustment period, or about having second thoughts, or using those 90 days to make sure she's comfortable. It's about using those 90 days to scrutinize her to make sure she really likes him and isn't using him, not about making her comfortable. If you don't know your partner well enough to know if you're being used, that's perhaps a sign you're not ready to file.

What's next? Locking her in the house and refusing to file for the green card until he's sure? Funny all those women ending up here asking for help, he's holding their papers over their head, he took away her passport... Just good ol' getting to know ya behavior, right?

I realize that it's not easy to meet someone overseas and it's often very expensive to go and visit, but that's not a reason to use the fiancee visa time as a keylogging snooping time. That's maybe a reason not to 'date' someone overseas if you can't afford to get to know them. That's not a reason to ask someone to give up their entire life (remember, she's a person, not just a potential bride) to come here.

The 90 days is there just for logistics, to give a couple time to get here, get a marriage license, arrange a date, and file the paperwork without dropping out of status. It's the standard amount of time for tourist visas, and that's probably the reason it's 90 days.

I agree

Edited October 24, 2007 by eric_and_teresa

[bakofoil 27]

Thanks to Lisa, there is one sure way of proving the USC is not using the 90 days as a cooling off period and it doesn't involve complicated keylogging techniques.

Just ask them before you file the K1 "Now are you sure you're not trying to put lipstick on a pig?'

On a serious note, If I thought for a minute that my fiance was using the K1 opportunity as a trial-period then I wouldn't be with him. Is there some lack of comprehension here on what processes the beneficiary has to go through in order to come to the US on a marriage-based visa? People give up homes, careers, families for this. You have to be damn sure it's what you want, IMO.

[Fandango 1,440]

But to imply that somebody must not love or is not dedicated to their partner because they're going to give their partner the opportunity to adjust is at best naive, and at worst mean spirited.

Talk about taking out of context! hahahahaha

This conversation has NEVER been about giving the partner the 'opportunity to adjust'. This is about people thinking it's ok to treat their fiancees like chattel. To scrutinize them from the second they get here to 'make sure' the USC is not going to get 'burned'. It's deplorable to think that way IMO....especially AFTER the fiancee has given up EVERYTHING to get here.

I said this all yesterday.

But ok, b@lls to the wall time...and I'm never one to mince words so I'll say this: any USC who treats his/her partner like this....like the OP has suggested....is NOT dedicated to his/her partner...more dedicated to getting what they 'ordered'. Any person who doesn't treat his/her partner with the respect that (s)he deserves as ANY HUMAN BEING DESERVES...any person that can JUSTIFY a 'little bit of privacy invasion'....is a sad pathetic & broken excuse for a person and needs a therapist, not a spouse.

Edited October 24, 2007 by LisaD

[archie07 0]

There are practical matters to attend to in the 90 days allowed for marriage, such as marriage arrangements and licenses. It is not designed for but is unfortunately too often used for a trial period. You don't sign letter of intent to try out a relationship for 90 days. You sign letters of intent to marry.

The period is actually too short for many to plan and have big traditional weddings because the dates can't be firm until the visa is in hand and couples understandably want to be reunited as soon as possible.

Using the 90 days as a trial period with somebody who gave up their whole life and family back home is treachery, IMO, or just plain selfish. One who does that is no prize.

Great posts, guys! It's really comforting to see that there are those who agree with me & Tmma!

For a while I started to think we fell into an alternate universe

[bakofoil 27]

There is so much to adjust to that I doubt it can be comfortably achieved within 90 days and that is certainly not what the OP was referring to.

To be fair, I think moxcamel and the OP are coming from different tangents on this. Moxcamel is concerned about the cultural transition for his fiancee and the OP is worried that his fiancee is dishonest. Two entirely different sentiments.

Having said this, the 90 day time period is useless regardless of the validity of the petitioner's concerns. Entering the K1 process is an intent to marry and you need to set systems in place before petitioning to ensure that the marriage has the best chance of success. I'm afraid that hoping your partner can adjust satisfactorily within 90 days of entering the US is missing the point. Your partner will need your support for much longer than that and sometimes for things unrelated to relocation to the States.

Edited October 24, 2007 by babblesgirl

[Zee Bee 61]

I have to agree with LisaD, tmma, Caladan, pushbrk on this one.

K-1 visa = fiance(e) visa, not a "please leave your life/family/job/friends behind in your country, come here, and lets see if we can stomach each other and get along and then get married" visa.

How can anyone justify making someone else leave their life behind, on the promise of marriage, only to say that they are going to use the 90 days to test the waters and see if they get along? It is unfair, unreasonable and selfish. How about if the tables were turned?

And then what happens if you find out that you were not compatible, pack him/her up and put them on the next plane back home and say "Sorry I made you give up everything for nothing. Have a nice life"!?!?!?!?!?!

#######?!?!?

Besides the fact that there is that simple statement that we all signed stating that we intend to marry within the 90 days. How much more clarification does someone need about the purpose of the visa?

And then getting them here and suggesting spying on them...don't even get me started. How much more disrespectful can you be towards someone you say you are going to marry?

Geez.

[AmericanGentleman 0]

In my opinion, the first 90 days should be focused on teaching your spouse how to drive in this country. You are a prisoner if you can not drive here. What alot of people do not realize is in most other countrys people are far far far more pedestrian. People walk to work, walk to the store, and walk to see familiy and friends. And the cities and public transportation are designed to accomodate this. Here is the US, it is not like that. We live far away from work,stores, and friends for the most part, making driving a necessity. You spouse is already going to be feeling very isolated, so being able to get out and drive on their own is a huge deal.

[archie07 0]

There is so much to adjust to that I doubt it can be comfortably achieved within 90 days and that is certainly not what the OP was referring to.

To be fair, I think moxcamel and the OP are coming from different tangents on this. Moxcamel is concerned about the cultural transition for his fiancee and the OP is worried that his fiancee is dishonest. Two entirely different sentiments.

Having said this, the 90 day time period is useless regardless of the validity of the petitioner's concerns. Entering the K1 process is an intent to marry and you need to set systems in place before petitioning to ensure that the marriage has the best chance of success. I'm afraid that hoping your partner can adjust satisfactorily within 90 days of entering the US is missing the point. Your partner will need your support for much longer than that and sometimes for things unrelated to relocation to the States.

Seattle needs to ruturn to Cebu, resolve his issues, then use the 90 day period to plan his wedding and not scrutinize his fiancee. My brother had issues also, I put him on a plane last month for manila, he came back good to go. Simple as that.

[Ban Hammer 14,656]

hmmm.. The big issue I see with the Key Logging, is two fold..

#1 - It shows lack of trust. I'm in the Computer industry, and when an individual asks me about key logging to monitor a spouse, I always tell them I'm not a divorce attorney, because once you've hit that point, you're on a downward slide very quickly.

#2 - I expect Ann to have conversations with family and friends in the Philippines that are not going to be 100% Positive about me and the USA. She needs somewhere to discuss her frustrations, fears, concerns, and emotions, other than just with me. I don't anticipate her transition to the USA being effortless and without frustration, loneliness, and homesickness. But we also both anticipate those facts, and are prepared to deal with them. So, if I was key logging, I'd just be stealing her relief, and adding to my concerns...Not a healthy situation.

The 90 days to me seems short more from a logistical standpoint. Getting here, getting settled, changing my blank bacehlor pad walls into "a good arrangement", planning a simple wedding, meeting family, and trying to work, will make 90 days go very fast. (Plus adding in buying a rice cooker, proper pot and pans, finding the right kinds of rice and fish...)

Of course, having known Ann for almost 3 years now, we know each others emotions, strengths, weaknesses, fears, finances, and of course she knows how ugly I am..

If we had known each other for only a few months, and then started down the Visa Journey, maybe I would have all of those worries, but then I'd be planning to slow down, and make sure before I bring her here.

you can also add to the keylogging the legal aspect too

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...;hl=key++logger