Dual Citizen Ukraine and US

[.yana 586]

2 hours ago, millefleur said:

Big mistake. You always have to enter on the passport you are a citizen of unless that country has some specific law saying otherwise.

I was always under this impression too! But my family members who were born in Switzerland yet haven’t renewed their Swiss passports in many years travel back and forth on their US passports alone… I was very surprised that they never had any issues!

[millefleur 5,039]

33 minutes ago, .yana said:

I was always under this impression too! But my family members who were born in Switzerland yet haven’t renewed their Swiss passports in many years travel back and forth on their US passports alone… I was very surprised that they never had any issues!

Who knows, I don't think it gets enforced much. Seems like in most cases it's an "honor system" where they just assume if you are a citizen you will enter with the correct passport. 

[Mike E 11,730]

51 minutes ago, .yana said:

How did she enter with US passport? By sea assuming the stay was under 48 hours or did she have a Russian visa in her US passport?

 

While the former is somewhere plausible, the latter is not.

Perhaps

 

* Russian citizens have an absolute right to enter Russia

 

* Russian embassies hand out visas to Russian citizens like American embassies hand out visas to U.S. citizens.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by Mike E

[.yana 586]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Perhaps

 

* Russian citizens have an absolute right to enter Russia

 

* Russian embassies hand out visas to Russian citizens like American embassies hand out visas to U.S. citizens.  

* Correct, on Russian passport

 

* I would be shocked if so: Russia/US never had a smooth relationship, I can't imagine Russian Embassy NOT scrutinizing an American applying for a visa, especially one bearing a Russian name since you mentioned your colleague's wife is a Russian native. 

 

*** I think only those who had experienced crossing the Russian border can relate but I have never in my life been questioned as much as while entering / exiting Russia, and I am a Russian citizen, so the oversight you mentioned above is very hard to believe😅

[Mike E 11,730]

5 minutes ago, .yana said:

Correct, on Russian passport

Then that is not an absolute right.

 

 

[.yana 586]

Just now, Mike E said:

Then that is not an absolute right.

 

 

How is the border agent going to know you're a Russian citizen if you show up with a passport from another country? 

 

Also - you're implying not only that everyone on Russian border patrol is aware of laws but that they also follow them.\?

My guy! 😬

[Mike E 11,730]

Just now, .yana said:

How is the border agent going to know you're a Russian citizen if you show up with a passport from another country? 

Same way a U.S. border officer knows you are a American citizen if you show up with passport from another country. Or no passport at all. Especially an American born in America. 

 

Similarly, how does a Russian CO issue passports to Russians abroad who have lost their Russian passports? The same way an American CO issues passports to Americans abroad who have lost their American passports.

 

If anything, it might be easier for a Russian border officer or CO, because of “internal passports” discussed in https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/RussianFederation.html 

 

Also it would not surprise me if Russian border and consular officers have verification by facial recognition as CBP has.  

 

People  across the world lose their documents, and manage to get re-documented. If one can be re-documented, then one’s citizenship can be re-verified without documents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[.yana 586]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Same way a U.S. border officer knows you are a American citizen if you show up with passport from another country. Or no passport at all. Especially an American born in America. 

 

Similarly, how does a Russian CO issue passports to Russians abroad who have lost their Russian passports? The same way an American CO issues passports to Americans abroad who have lost their American passports.

 

If anything, it might be easier for a Russian border officer or CO, because of “internal passports” discussed in https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/RussianFederation.html 

 

Also it would not surprise me if Russian border and consular officers have verification by facial recognition as CBP has.  

 

People  across the world lose their documents, and manage to get re-documented. If one can be re-documented, then one’s citizenship can be re-verified without documents.

That's a great point! I can't imagine it working how it's supposed to in Russian reality but helpful to know!

 

No need to put quotes for internal passports by the way. It's our reality.

[Mike E 11,730]

1 minute ago, .yana said:

No need to put quotes for internal passports by the way. It's our reality.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

 

we list out the six main uses for quotation marks.

1 Quote a source directly

I was quoting a term used by the State Department. So my use of quotation marks was correct.

 

You  thought this was my purpose in the use of that term:

 

4 Set apart a word to show irony, sarcasm, or skepticism (scare quotes)

This is twice now that you have explicitly inferred ill intent from me.  I’ve contributed all I can, and I don’t wish to argue or bicker, so I won’t post more in this thread.

 

 

 

 

[GP1977 288]

1 hour ago, .yana said:

How is the border agent going to know you're a Russian citizen if you show up with a passport from another country? 

 

 

 

On a US passport on the biometrics page it has a line that says "Place of Birth".

The only reason you wouldn't be a citizen of that country would be if you renounced your citizenship.

Edited August 3, 2023 by GP1977

[.yana 586]

37 minutes ago, Mike E said:

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

 

we list out the six main uses for quotation marks.

1 Quote a source directly

I was quoting a term used by the State Department. So my use of quotation marks was correct.

 

You  thought this was my purpose in the use of that term:

 

4 Set apart a word to show irony, sarcasm, or skepticism (scare quotes)

This is twice now that you have explicitly inferred ill intent from me.  I’ve contributed all I can, and I don’t wish to argue or bicker, so I won’t post more in this thread.

It truly baffles me when VERY experienced folks like yourself try to opine on such specific situations and such specific country laws they're not familiar with. 

[.yana 586]

14 minutes ago, GP1977 said:

 

On a US passport on the biometrics page it has a line that says "Place of Birth".

The only reason you wouldn't be a citizen of that country would be if you renounced your citizenship.

Once you renounce your citizenship - you need to apply for a visa, like any other foreigner. 

[millefleur 5,039]

1 hour ago, .yana said:

*** I think only those who had experienced crossing the Russian border can relate but I have never in my life been questioned as much as while entering / exiting Russia, and I am a Russian citizen, so the oversight you mentioned above is very hard to believe😅

I think it's fairly simple. What happens is, they ask where you are coming from. If you say "the US" then they'll ask how you were able to go to the US and to show your relevant document. That question will open up if you have citizenship there or not, as you'll have to show whatever document you used to get there. (Green card, US passport, US visa etc)

 

I assume it would be the same for Ukraine, since they also require visas to the US.