One under 18 (split)

[Helen Quail 28]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:39 AM, Mike E said:

People under age 18 cannot file N-400.  
 

If you can provide original evidence of legal and physical custody, then your daughter will immediately become a U.S. citizen once either of her parents becomes a U.S. citizen, provided she is still under age 18 at time her parent naturalizes.  
 

Each parent should make copies, front and back of their green cards now. The green cards are expected to be taken at naturalization. 
 

After a parent naturalizes, that parent can apply for the daughter’s passport and passport card by including the following with the passport application:

 

* marriage certificate of parents (evidence of legal custody in traditional nuclear families) 

* birth certificate of daughter listing the parents as the same people in the marriage certificate 

* naturalization certificate of parent

* proof the daughter and parent live at the same address (evidence of physical custody).  Start gathering  this now. It is harder than it looks. 

* green card of daughter 

Provide an original (except for drivers licenses and State id cards) and photo copy of each piece of evidence 

 

Make a complete copy of everything you send, front and back. 

 

Do not expect  the green card to come back.  If it goes not, preserve any note the passport agency provides that says it kept the green card. Alternatively, you might get the green card back with a demand that you return the green card to USCIS. Ignore that demand for the moment. Expect the other original evidence to come back. 
 

Depending on how long your daughter is without her green card and passport or passport card, you might need to get an ADIT stamp on her foreign passport from USCIS as an alternative I-551. 

Once her passport or passport card comes back, file N-600 to get your daughter an original certificate of citizenship. This is gold standard evidence of U.S. citizenship that will be accepted in situations where a passport or passport card are not:

 

* your daughter is denied a passport or passport card renewal in the future. Causes can include failure to pay child support, criminal record, a history of losing passports, etc.  

 

* the passport agency processing times for renewals go crazy as they did when WHTI was implemented, or when travel bans started to end after year 1 of the pandemic emergency. A certificate of citizenship never expires. 

 

* security clearance for sensitive work for the federal government 

 

* certain roles in the U.S. armed forces and federal civil service 

 

* state DL (when a dmv cannot verify her citizenship with SAVE, some states will bypass SAVE with a certificate of citizenship)

 

* social security card  (there is a classified portion of the SSA policy manual that sometimes requires citizens to produce a certificate of citizenship)

 

* petitioning a family member for a green card 

 

* registering to vote online in some states 

 

There are examples of the above where a passport or passport card sufficed. And there are counter examples where it didn’t.  Regardless as you can imagine, providing the evidence decades  after the fact can be hard. It is best to address this while the evidence is hot.  

 

The evidence needed to apply for  N-600 is a copy of  everything you sent to get  a passport and passport card plus:

 

* a copy of the note saying the passport agency kept the gc

 

* copy of the daughter’s passport or passport card 

 

N-600 should be filed online so that originals are not mistakenly sent 
 

At the N-600 interview, bring all original evidence. At that time, you can expect to surrender  your daughter’s green card. Or USCIS might request it separately.  I would not surrender her green card until the certificate of citizenship is in hand. 
 

 

 

 

Thanks this is what I was looking into.

 

I have four children who got their GCs when I did. Three will be over 18 by the time we can apply. They will have to submit their own applications yes?

 

My younger daughter doesn't live with me ( she is in a facility) but I support her financially and have legal custody etc. Will she be covered under mine?

Your advice appreciated

 

Helen

[Mike E 11,725]

22 minutes ago, Helen Quail said:

Thanks this is what I was looking into.

 

I have four children who got their GCs when I did. Three will be over 18 by the time we can apply. They will have to submit their own applications yes?

yes 

Quote

 

My younger daughter doesn't live with me ( she is in a facility) but I support her financially and have legal custody etc. Will she be covered under mine?

Your advice appreciated

Yes so I’ve wondered about that case. I usually  think about the case where the child is in boarding school.  Arguably boarding school is still physical custody because the child is there at the choice of the custodial parent.  
 

In the case your daughter being in a facility, I have some questions and I am trying to be as delicate as possible. My apologies if these seem intrusive and cause you pain:

 

* is she there voluntarily (as it is as her parent  you have placed her there for her benefit)?

 

* is she permitted to have vacations from the facility in your physical custody?

 

* are you permitted to have over night visits with her at the facility?

 

Understandably you want her to  acquire U.S. citizenship without the ordeal of a naturalization interview.  

 

btw, I expect your question and my comment to be spun off into its own thread. Given the urgency and sensitive nature of your daughter’s situation I’ve chosen to answer here and now. 
 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Mike E

[Helen Quail 28]

58 minutes ago, Mike E said:

yes 

Yes so I’ve wondered about that case. I usually  think about the case where the child is in boarding school.  Arguably boarding school is still physical custody because the child is there at the choice of the custodial parent.  
 

In the case your daughter being in a facility, I have some questions and I am trying to be as delicate as possible. My apologies if these seem intrusive and cause you pain:

 

* is she there voluntarily (as it is as her parent  you have placed her there for her benefit)?

 

* is she permitted to have vacations from the facility in your physical custody?

 

* are you permitted to have over night visits with her at the facility?

 

Understandably you want her to  acquire U.S. citizenship without the ordeal of a naturalization interview.  

 

btw, I expect your question and my comment to be spun off into its own thread. Given the urgency and sensitive nature of your daughter’s situation I’ve chosen to answer here and now. 
 

 

Mike you are a star and I appreciate your reply and your care.

 

The answer is yes to all of that. She can spend whatever time with me we wish and leave at any time. Its voluntary and yes for her benefit. ( She is internationally adopted and has some very challenging issues)

 

I take your point on physical custody extending to residential schools or facilities where the parent retains all normal parental responsibilities . That is the case here. She just doesn't physically live with me right now. I pay a financial contribution to her care as well as supporting typical expenses like clothes etc.

[Ontarkie 13,948]

~~Hijack post and related replies split off to their own thread. Please do not post questions about your own case in other member's threads.~~

[Mike E 11,725]

4 hours ago, Helen Quail said:

I take your point on physical custody extending to residential schools or facilities where the parent retains all normal parental responsibilities . That is the case here. She just doesn't physically live with me right now. I pay a financial contribution to her care as well as supporting typical expenses like clothes etc.

I would 

 

* get a her a state ID with same address as where you live. That’s your evidence of physical  custody.  Any effort you can extend to shield her from an N-400 process would be ideal. 

 

* after your naturalize, spend at least one night with her at the facility and get evidence that you did so. This is your insurance policy. 
 

* then file for yours and hers passport books and cards. 
 

* preserve the documents of your agreement herb the facility, invoices, etc.  

 

* then the N-600 process as per my original comment. Unfortunately she might have to attend an N-600 interview 
 

 

 

[Helen Quail 28]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:30 PM, Ontarkie said:

~~Hijack post and related replies split off to their own thread. Please do not post questions about your own case in other member's threads.~~

I'm not sure if this is meant for me or not. I was looking for discussions on this topic and found one so engaged. PLease advise if there's a better way than with starting another duplicate topic.

 

Thanks

[Helen Quail 28]

22 hours ago, Mike E said:

I would 

 

* get a her a state ID with same address as where you live. That’s your evidence of physical  custody.  Any effort you can extend to shield her from an N-400 process would be ideal. 

 

* after your naturalize, spend at least one night with her at the facility and get evidence that you did so. This is your insurance policy. 
 

* then file for yours and hers passport books and cards. 
 

* preserve the documents of your agreement herb the facility, invoices, etc.  

 

* then the N-600 process as per my original comment. Unfortunately she might have to attend an N-600 interview 
 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Though we live in the same state, don't know how I would get a state id for her with my address. She is enrolled for school and services where she is, two hours away.

 

 

[Ontarkie 13,948]

8 minutes ago, Helen Quail said:

I'm not sure if this is meant for me or not. I was looking for discussions on this topic and found one so engaged. PLease advise if there's a better way than with starting another duplicate topic.

 

Thanks

No two cases are the same. It is always better to start your own thread. That is why I split your questions off to its own. 

[Mike E 11,725]

12 minutes ago, Helen Quail said:

Thanks.

 

Though we live in the same state, don't know how I would get a state id for her with my address. She is enrolled for school and services where she is, two hours away.

 

 

Therein lies the problem.

 

If you don’t think she qualifies for a state ID with your address then it is hard for you to argue that she is in your physical custody.

 

What address does her most recent AR-11 use?

[Allaboutwaiting 2,500]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:42 AM, Helen Quail said:

Thanks this is what I was looking into.

 

I have four children who got their GCs when I did. Three will be over 18 by the time we can apply. They will have to submit their own applications yes?

 

My younger daughter doesn't live with me ( she is in a facility) but I support her financially and have legal custody etc. Will she be covered under mine?

Your advice appreciated

 

Helen

I assume you are divorced and were granted both legal and physical custody of your younger daughter? 

 

 

[Helen Quail 28]

3 hours ago, Ontarkie said:

No two cases are the same. It is always better to start your own thread. That is why I split your questions off to its own. 

Sure I understand that

[Helen Quail 28]

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

Therein lies the problem.

 

If you don’t think she qualifies for a state ID with your address then it is hard for you to argue that she is in your physical custody.

 

What address does her most recent AR-11 use?

I didn't think she would be considered as in my physical custody until you raised that issue. I gave her current address in the AR11.

So back to where I began - what would be the process for her?

[Helen Quail 28]

3 hours ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

I assume you are divorced and were granted both legal and physical custody of your younger daughter? 

 

 

Why do you assume I am divorced?

She was adopted at birth by my former husband and I who divorced years ago before I emigrated. I have full custody yes.

[Mike E 11,725]

14 minutes ago, Helen Quail said:

So back to where I began - what would be the process for her?

Apply for her passport and see what happens  

[Allaboutwaiting 2,500]

13 minutes ago, Helen Quail said:

Why do you assume I am divorced?

She was adopted at birth by my former husband and I who divorced years ago before I emigrated. I have full custody yes.

The way you worded things implied you were divorced from your daughter's father. 

 

The important thing is that you are the parent with both legal and physical custody, so you should have no issue. Your daughter should acquire citizenship automatically.