Assess chances for F-1 and F-2 after three B1/B2 refusals

[dealmonkey 0]

Dear experts,

I hope you are doing well and getting ready for the wonderful holiday season.

I was planning to go for the top Canadian MBA program, but my wife's dependent application on "open work permit" (common case when spouses come with their principal applicants/student) was refused due to two reasons: (1) VO didn't believe she will come back, and (2) VO didn't believe she answered all questions "truthfully". On the second one I later realized that we stupidly and unintentionally forgot to click "Yes" to the question that she was refused 3 times on U.S. temporary visa. I assume this was the reason and that's why my application was denied too (although the application looked strong in the eyes of my immigration consultant). Finally, as my Canadian program is about to start in a few months, I am afraid we won't make it on time so that's why I started looking into the U.S. MBA programs -- namely, a top 10-15 well-known business school.

We are from Central Eastern Europe. I have a valid B1/B2 visa until 2027, and I've been 4 times to the U.S., but my wife still hasn't. Her previous 3 refusals (applied separately without me) were my tries to bring her on my business trips for a week or so. We've been married since 2017, don't have kids. I have 20+ countries visited and my wife has around 10 (mostly Europe, Middle East).

The question is: what is the likelihood of us being approved both F-1 and F-2 visa given the above case. How does the fact of us being present together (not separately now) during an interview help? How does the brand university help here too? Any other considerations?

Many thanks in advance.

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

Not sure about the case, other than the fact of 3 previous denials is going to make it difficult for your wife (it is possible they give you F1 but don’t give her F2), but just wanted to say brand name of college does not override the usual factors they look at for granting non-immigrant visas. Also, US and Canada share info so even though they don’t ask about non-US refusals in the DS160, they will probably be aware of that. 
 

[SalishSea 16,968]

1 hour ago, dealmonkey said:

On the second one I later realized that we stupidly and unintentionally forgot to click "Yes" to the question that she was refused 3 times on U.S. temporary visa.

Not sure how you "forget" to answer the truth when asked if you've been refused a visa.  Overall, I'd say your chances are quite low.

[dealmonkey 0]

1 hour ago, Jorgedig said:

Not sure how you "forget" to answer the truth when asked if you've been refused a visa.  Overall, I'd say your chances are quite low.

Thank you!

Yeah, I know it sounds funny and impossible to "forget", but I failed so. The question actually asked: "Have you ever been refused a visa or permit, denied entry or ordered to leave Canada or any other country?" So this last portion of "any other country" was a game changer as we rushed over these formal last questions on criminal, terrorism, etc. But it's another story.

 

You mean that even appearing for the interview and staying in front of the VO might now help? And overall you don't believe it is feasible to pursue this path?

[dealmonkey 0]

2 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Not sure about the case, other than the fact of 3 previous denials is going to make it difficult for your wife (it is possible they give you F1 but don’t give her F2), but just wanted to say brand name of college does not override the usual factors they look at for granting non-immigrant visas. Also, US and Canada share info so even though they don’t ask about non-US refusals in the DS160, they will probably be aware of that. 
 

Thanks! You mean even while attending the interview together, OV might directly, looking into our eyes say that I get the visa but my wife doesn't?  And the fact of she being my dependent doesn't mean she gets F-2 automatically?

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

2 hours ago, dealmonkey said:

Thanks! You mean even while attending the interview together, OV might directly, looking into our eyes say that I get the visa but my wife doesn't?  And the fact of she being my dependent doesn't mean she gets F-2 automatically?

Lol, what do you think, that they are embarrassed to refuse visas? No, she won’t get it automatically as a derivative if they don’t think she qualifies for it. Each visa is assessed on its own merits. Plenty of precedent for different outcomes in the same family applying together. 
 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[carmel34 3,538]

If you're convinced that a top MBA program in Canada or the US is your only option (keep in mind that there are many excellent MBA programs all over the world), and if your continued efforts at getting a student visa for you and an accompanying spouse visa fail (seems likely in your case), I suggest that you look into the many totally online options offered by many of these "top 10-15" MBA programs in Canada and the US.  Student visas are not being processed right now anyway at most foreign embassies/consulates because of the pandemic, and you do not have to be physically present for a totally online program, you can reside anywhere in the world and still get a very good MBA degree.  If you're looking at top programs  in both countries, you must have the financial means, so paying the high online tuition should not be a barrier.  Business school dean in the US here.  I did my MBA at the top program in Canada back when there were no online options.  Good luck!

[dealmonkey 0]

5 minutes ago, carmel34 said:

If you're convinced that a top MBA program in Canada or the US is your only option (keep in mind that there are many excellent MBA programs all over the world), and if your continued efforts at getting a student visa for you and an accompanying spouse visa fail (seems likely in your case), I suggest that you look into the many totally online options offered by many of these "top 10-15" MBA programs in Canada and the US.  Student visas are not being processed right now anyway at most foreign embassies/consulates because of the pandemic, and you do not have to be physically present for a totally online program, you can reside anywhere in the world and still get a very good MBA degree.  If you're looking at top programs  in both countries, you must have the financial means, so paying the high online tuition should not be a barrier.  Business school dean in the US here.  I did my MBA at the top program in Canada back when there were no online options.  Good luck!

Thank you, but I was looking only for in-person MBA program so that I am seeking advice on getting both F-1 and F-2 given the above case described.

[carmel34 3,538]

9 hours ago, dealmonkey said:

The question is: what is the likelihood of us being approved both F-1 and F-2 visa given the above case.

As you have been advised, the likelihood is very very low given the facts you have shared here.  The key to approval would be to show strong ties to your home country, that you will return after completion of the MBA program.  What are those strong ties?  You'll need to overcome the assumption by the officer that you have immigrant intent, and also satisfy the financial support requirements which will be very high paying international student tuition and living expenses in the US including health insurance--have you looked into all of those costs and can afford all of them?  On top of all that, your previous visa denials and misrepresentation will also count against you.  Plus as I said before, most US embassies and consulates are not even doing F-1/F-2 visa interviews right now because of the pandemic.  For all of these reasons, I recommended that you look at other options, including online MBA programs.  Good luck!

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

1 hour ago, dealmonkey said:

Thank you, but I was looking only for in-person MBA program so that I am seeking advice on getting both F-1 and F-2 given the above case described.

If you are convinced you’d get into a top program in the US so easily and paying is not a problem, then surely Said, Judge, Imperial, LBS would be options for you, not sure what the new visa rules for Europeans are but potentially a lot easier assuming your wife has not had visa problems with the UK before?

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Coco8 1,039]

Has she been to a Middle Eastern country that they would find suspicious? 

 

Why do you think she has been refused so many times before? (not the time she did not say she had been refused, that was dumb)

Edited December 24, 2020 by Coco8

[dealmonkey 0]

1 hour ago, Coco8 said:

Has she been to a Middle Eastern country that they would find suspicious? 

 

Why do you think she has been refused so many times before? (not the time she did not say she had been refused, that was dumb)

We've been together there and it included UAE, Egypt and Turkey -- all for tourism, usual vacation destinations for CEE citizens. 

 

We don't have a clue why they rejected her B1/B2 applications. The official statement was that she didn't prove she will come back. The first OV was barely speaking our local language but in the same time my wife didn't speak English well so I assume there's some misunderstood thing mention in their notes, not sure. She doesn't have any criminal issues and she works in an international consultancy. So really hard to imagine...

[dealmonkey 0]

5 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

If you are convinced you’d get into a top program in the US so easily and paying is not a problem, then surely Said, Judge, Imperial, LBS would be options for you, not sure what the new visa rules for Europeans are but potentially a lot easier assuming your wife has not had visa problems with the UK before?

 

 

We both didn't apply for UK visas before, but I believe UK has access to her profile within US and Canadian visa applications and I am afraid that even UK might be an issue. What do you think? I really don't have a clue of the reason for these rejections and can't imagine what is written in their system.

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

24 minutes ago, dealmonkey said:

We both didn't apply for UK visas before, but I believe UK has access to her profile within US and Canadian visa applications and I am afraid that even UK might be an issue. What do you think? I really don't have a clue of the reason for these rejections and can't imagine what is written in their system.

Well, the UK visa form does also ask if you have ever been denied a visa anywhere before so there’s no hiding that, but the form itself (as well as the evidence required) is also far more comprehensive than the US one, so that may help your case. Are you from an EU country? Insead is another top MBA option and I understand some other French and spanish schools are highly regarded too, but I am not personally familiar with them.

[Boiler 43,832]

If you do not apply I know what your chance is.

 

If you do something more.