Argentinians in the U.S. - Emotional Support Group

[Fe.Ta 857]

3 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

A big thing to remember in general is that homesickness and culture shock will strike, even if we're fully expecting them.  It will also happen when we least expect, such as months or longer after arrival, just when we think that we've finally gotten our new environment/culture figured out.

 

This happens to Norteamericanos, too, when they're living abroad.

So true.  Thank you for the input.

 

I am curious, since you are far into the process. Do you have any advice for beneficiaries as to how to manage/handle that shock? What has worked out for you over the years?

[TBoneTX 43,058]

3 minutes ago, Fe.Ta said:

Do you have any advice for beneficiaries as to how to manage/handle that shock? What has worked out for you over the years?

As background, Mrs. T-B.-to-be had visited the U.S. twice before we connected.  She had some acquaintance with the country, and spoke rusty English.  (Note: if beneficiaries are still in their own country, encourage them to practice English, preferably with native gringos there, at every opportunity.  It's easy to lose those skills if you lack the chance to practice.)

 

Mrs. T-B. had been here only a few days when I dropped her at a Spanish-language Catholic church service.  She wasn't particularly religious, but she's incredibly social, so it was a chance for her to connect.

 

I waited seemingly forever for her to come out.  When she did, she was bubbling happily and introduced me to a slightly older couple (also from Ecu) whom she'd befriended.  From that point, she built a network of friends that grew.  None of those direct relationships survived beyond a couple of years, but it enabled her to spread her network.

 

I also enrolled her in a free English class at another church.  She met some other Spanish-speakers there.

 

We have a small regional chain of supermarkets geared toward the immigrant Hispanic market (some of the butchers and cashiers indeed speak no or almost no English).  She appreciated the similarity of the piles of vegetables, the meat counter, etc. to more of what she'd been used to in Ecu.  As we left, I had her ask the employees if they could guess her country from her Spanish dialect.  The guesses were "Honduras," "Colombia," and "not Mexico."  When she told them, one guy exclaimed, "Ecuador?!  I thought all Ecuatorianos were ugly!"  (We concluded that his only familiarity was with those stubby native Indians who wear the colorful hats.)

 

For younger beneficiaries, especially if you the petitioner have to work during the day, I'd consider dropping them for a day on a university campus at the International Student Center (when campuses reopen).  There, they can relax, read, and see that they're not the only foreigner on the planet.  They might meet Spanish-speakers or even completely unexpected potential friends from Asia or Africa.

 

Daily processes that we take for granted might be completely alien.  For example, Mrs. T-B. was crushed when she found that she couldn't simply walk into a dentist's office, tell them what she wanted, have it done during that visit, and walk out.  Our system is far more cumbersome than that (multiple visits, pre-examinations, etc.).

 

Beyond the above, I'd say that spending as much time together as possible -- early after arrival -- is crucial.  Even if you have time only to go on an evening walk around the block or a brief drive, point out objects and activities that differ from their home, and explain them (for example, elevated freeway overpasses).  Even more important is to ASK what they notice that stands out as different, and why it's notable to them, and what questions they have about it.  If they learn things piece by piece, at their pace, they can get the idea that this new culture is not this overwhelming, imposing giant to conquer; rather, it's the metaphorical elephant that they can eat a bite at a time.

 

Let me know if this is helpful.

[Fe.Ta 857]

22 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

As background, Mrs. T-B.-to-be had visited the U.S. twice before we connected.  She had some acquaintance with the country, and spoke rusty English.  (Note: if beneficiaries are still in their own country, encourage them to practice English, preferably with native gringos there, at every opportunity.  It's easy to lose those skills if you lack the chance to practice.)

 

Mrs. T-B. had been here only a few days when I dropped her at a Spanish-language Catholic church service.  She wasn't particularly religious, but she's incredibly social, so it was a chance for her to connect.

 

I waited seemingly forever for her to come out.  When she did, she was bubbling happily and introduced me to a slightly older couple (also from Ecu) whom she'd befriended.  From that point, she built a network of friends that grew.  None of those direct relationships survived beyond a couple of years, but it enabled her to spread her network.

 

I also enrolled her in a free English class at another church.  She met some other Spanish-speakers there.

 

We have a small regional chain of supermarkets geared toward the immigrant Hispanic market (some of the butchers and cashiers indeed speak no or almost no English).  She appreciated the similarity of the piles of vegetables, the meat counter, etc. to more of what she'd been used to in Ecu.  As we left, I had her ask the employees if they could guess her country from her Spanish dialect.  The guesses were "Honduras," "Colombia," and "not Mexico."  When she told them, one guy exclaimed, "Ecuador?!  I thought all Ecuatorianos were ugly!"  (We concluded that his only familiarity was with those stubby native Indians who wear the colorful hats.)

 

For younger beneficiaries, especially if you the petitioner have to work during the day, I'd consider dropping them for a day on a university campus at the International Student Center (when campuses reopen).  There, they can relax, read, and see that they're not the only foreigner on the planet.  They might meet Spanish-speakers or even completely unexpected potential friends from Asia or Africa.

 

Daily processes that we take for granted might be completely alien.  For example, Mrs. T-B. was crushed when she found that she couldn't simply walk into a dentist's office, tell them what she wanted, have it done during that visit, and walk out.  Our system is far more cumbersome than that (multiple visits, pre-examinations, etc.).

 

Beyond the above, I'd say that spending as much time together as possible -- early after arrival -- is crucial.  Even if you have time only to go on an evening walk around the block or a brief drive, point out objects and activities that differ from their home, and explain them (for example, elevated freeway overpasses).  Even more important is to ASK what they notice that stands out as different, and why it's notable to them, and what questions they have about it.  If they learn things piece by piece, at their pace, they can get the idea that this new culture is not this overwhelming, imposing giant to conquer; rather, it's the metaphorical elephant that they can eat a bite at a time.

 

Let me know if this is helpful.

It is very helpful.  Thank you!

My husband is a bit more of an introvert, so dropping him somewhere with a bunch of strangers for the sake of socialization can end up causing a whole lot of anxiety.  Haha  But, your input is very important for those that are extroverts and thrive in finding their own community.

We were very excited for him to find a job, then COVID happened the same week the card arrived.  We have been watching the situation, but it seems we should be good to move forward in August-September with seeking employment, especially because we do not want to delay it any further and it would be good for him to just gain some independence.

Thank you for your notes on the language situation.  My husband started some back at home and then he has done an online course on and off.  He still has a long way to go.  But, we do everything we can to help his English.  If anyone out there is like my husband, he struggles with learning a new language because he finds languages in general boring to learn (the repetition of words, vocabulary, and such).  Thus, he learns more by diving in and learning as he goes.  So, some of the things we did back then was we switched from him watching everything in Spanish to watching everything in English with subtitles in Spanish.  I also quit translating for him simple things and made him translate them for me instead (i.e. a description of something online we are planning to buy).  Additionally, I would bring him to work activities and I would let him listen to people as they engaged in conversation with him, have him try to understand it, and then help him.  This has helped him ease into active listening.  Again, we have a long way to go, but we are doing everything we can.  I am sure once he starts working and going to school, he will pick it up easier.  Also, we are planning to do one of those tech-y gadgets that translates as you engage in conversation for when he is out and about and can't find a way to communicate correctly.

I am glad you shared the idea of asking them about what seems foreign to them that for us are normal.  Sometimes I forget to do that or explain the "why".  What you mentioned about the doctor made me chuckle because my husband still struggles with how pharmacies work here, since in Argentina you say I have a pain in X place and they'll just give you a pill or remedy that is not over the counter without the need to go to a doctor and such.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

7 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

My husband is a bit more of an introvert

In which case groups, whether or not strangers, will not only cause him anxiety but also absolutely exhaust him.

Try to find him one buddy (assimilated immigrant or at least bilingual) who can be his pal and his coach.

7 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

we switched from him watching everything in Spanish to watching everything in English with subtitles in Spanish.

Outstanding idea... which has been suggested to me (in reverse) to help me learn Spanish!  Sadly, I'm more of a book-learner, and Mrs. T-B. is no linguist who can explain rules and exceptions.

7 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

we are doing everything we can

Those are all excellent protocols.

7 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

my husband still struggles with how pharmacies work here

It's ridiculous, isn't it?  I go to Mexico twice a year to stock up on "prescriptions."

 

Additional thought:  Having him articulate what he finds strange is good in multiple ways -- he can ask you in English and learn vocabulary (you can help); he learns to be assertive with questions (not always easy for introverts); and, of course, he learns answers to his questions.

Edited July 24, 2020 by TBoneTX

[Fe.Ta 857]

12 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

In which case groups, whether or not strangers, will not only cause him anxiety but also absolutely exhaust him.

Try to find him one buddy (assimilated immigrant or at least bilingual) who can be his pal and his coach.

 

Again, thank you so much for your input.  Yes, we were looking at soccer groups or people from Argentina right around the time this whole mess happened.  Haha  He actually got super close to an existing friend of mine right around the time we married.  Sadly, he lives in Canada (him and his wife came down as our witnesses) and we haven't been able to see each other as often.  But, I saw the value of him talking to someone that had a similar experience, even though they come from different countries.

 

12 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Outstanding idea... which has been suggested to me (in reverse) to help me learn Spanish!  Sadly, I'm more of a book-learner, and Mrs. T-B. is no linguist who can explain rules and exceptions.

Thank you!  You should.  When I learned English, I started learning by reading in English with a dictionary (those were the days, HA!) and watching TV in English with subtitles.  Up until that point, there was no English class that could get it through my brain.  Eventually, I became a language person, which has helped me learned other languages.  My husband and I don't have a language barrier (we both are native Spanish speakers), but I would like to ask you if you have any pointers for those that do need to find a common language in English.  Did you and Mrs. T face any challenges with this at the beginning?  If so, what tools or activities did you engage with to get passed it?  I don't mean to pry, just trying to be helpful for others.

 

12 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Those are all excellent protocols.

It's ridiculous, isn't it?  I go to Mexico twice a year to stock up on "prescriptions."

Thanks!  Haha It is.  Sometimes I don't get why there is so much protocol in medicine.  It is as if they want to make it more expensive than it is already.

 

12 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

 

Additional thought:  Having him articulate what he finds strange is good in multiple ways -- he can ask you in English and learn vocabulary (you can help); he learns to be assertive with questions (not always easy for introverts); and, of course, he learns answers to his questions.

Great idea!  I never thought about having him talk to me in English.  I do encourage him with English whenever he reads to me or anything he says in English so he knows that he is doing a good job in learning.  He is self-conscious about his accent, but I let him know that for now he just needs to focus in understanding and learning vocabulary.  Personally, I think the accent is the last thing you worry about at the "polishing" stage and, quite frankly, there are some of us that always have an accent, it is just not thick enough for it to be an issue in communicating with others.  I try to be sensitive in how and when I correct him so I don't add to the complex.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

12 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

He actually got super close to an existing friend of mine right around the time we married.

Get back in touch, renew the acquaintanceship, and continue by video or phone.  Be sure that they rotate between Spanish and English, increasing use of the latter over time.

12 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

pointers for those that do need to find a common language in English.  Did you and Mrs. T face any challenges with this at the beginning?

She had visited the U.S. twice before and spoke some English, which was of course rusty because there was no chance to practice in Ecu.  I just answered questions, gently corrected mistakes, and made sure that we laughed at booboos.  She asked me, "What's a Washetería?" and I had to say, "WasheTEEria."  (Sadly, she couldn't explain to me why "Farmácia" is stressed differently than "Taquería" and so many other words.)  She could barely keep a straight face when asking me, "What's that" -- pointing to a pedometer.  Just recently, she understood why others chuckled when she abbreviated "condominium" as "condom."

 

Ironically, she helped me defuse the self-consciousness of native Spanish-speakers who spoke little or no English.  Before I went to the meat counter in the Mexican supermarket, she said, "Ask, 'hablás inglés?"  If they say no, say, 'Yo tampoco,' and order in Spanish like I taught you.  If they say yes, say, 'Me, too!' and order in either language."  And every time I tried this, I almost palpably felt their insecurity and borderline shame melt away when I said, "Yo tampoco."  I even got some laughs from other customers.

 

The lesson from this is to make it a game, or at least as lighthearted as possible.  No need to make "Latin pride" take a hit.

12 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

He is self-conscious about his accent

As earlier above, I think that this can be one of the easiest adjustments, if he gets in the habit of using an "athletic" mouth to speak.  Practice "pure" vowel sounds with exaggerated mouth shapes.  If he has trouble with certain consonants or diphthongs, explain (and show) where his tongue should go to form it.  Pick a few words every day to practice.  Or, find a word in a news article, say, "Hey, come pronounce this one!" and let him go back to what he was doing.  This way, it's not overwhelming or oppressive.  But I suggest a little work every day.  However, an early concentration should be utterly correct vowel sounds of "beach" and "sheet."  

12 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

not thick enough for it to be an issue in communicating with others

The first time Mrs. T-B. said, "Doan go aysheep," only the context of the moment enabled me to understand this to be "Don't go ape-[poop]."

12 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

When I learned English

Until you squealed on yourself, I'd never have guessed in a zillion years that you weren't a native speaker/writer.  Holy mackerel.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

As an additional thought:  an old girlfriend of mine was a refugee from Czechoslovakia, landing in Canada at about age 8 years.  She said that she knew not one word of English and was immersed in it when enrolled in school.  She said she cried her eyes out for about a month, then everything began falling into place.  In hindsight, she recommends immersion as a language-learning process.

[Fe.Ta 857]

On 7/25/2020 at 2:02 AM, TBoneTX said:

Get back in touch, renew the acquaintanceship, and continue by video or phone.  Be sure that they rotate between Spanish and English, increasing use of the latter over time.

Thanks!  That's good advice.

 

On 7/25/2020 at 2:02 AM, TBoneTX said:

She had visited the U.S. twice before and spoke some English, which was of course rusty because there was no chance to practice in Ecu.  I just answered questions, gently corrected mistakes, and made sure that we laughed at booboos.  She asked me, "What's a Washetería?" and I had to say, "WasheTEEria."  (Sadly, she couldn't explain to me why "Farmácia" is stressed differently than "Taquería" and so many other words.)  She could barely keep a straight face when asking me, "What's that" -- pointing to a pedometer.  Just recently, she understood why others chuckled when she abbreviated "condominium" as "condom."

Haha!  This is too funny.  So, this is where some complexities with Spanish come into place.  We use what is called a "tilde", which is that symbol (or accent if you want to use the right adjective) that you use to emphasize a particular syllable visually and not just verbally.  The rules for actually writing one in such as in "taquería" versus only emphasizing the syllable verbally such as in "farmacia", even though they look similar, come from different aspects such as the amount of syllables, where the tone emphasizes an accent as you break it into syllables, and the syllable in which the strong tone falls.  Depending on all of this, then you have specific accentuation rules that would determine whether or not the word will need a visual versus a verbal accent.  On top of that, you also have irregular words just like you would verbs.  VOILA!

 

On 7/25/2020 at 2:02 AM, TBoneTX said:

 

Ironically, she helped me defuse the self-consciousness of native Spanish-speakers who spoke little or no English.  Before I went to the meat counter in the Mexican supermarket, she said, "Ask, 'hablás inglés?"  If they say no, say, 'Yo tampoco,' and order in Spanish like I taught you.  If they say yes, say, 'Me, too!' and order in either language."  And every time I tried this, I almost palpably felt their insecurity and borderline shame melt away when I said, "Yo tampoco."  I even got some laughs from other customers.

 

The lesson from this is to make it a game, or at least as lighthearted as possible.  No need to make "Latin pride" take a hit.

As earlier above, I think that this can be one of the easiest adjustments, if he gets in the habit of using an "athletic" mouth to speak.  Practice "pure" vowel sounds with exaggerated mouth shapes.  If he has trouble with certain consonants or diphthongs, explain (and show) where his tongue should go to form it.  Pick a few words every day to practice.  Or, find a word in a news article, say, "Hey, come pronounce this one!" and let him go back to what he was doing.  This way, it's not overwhelming or oppressive.  But I suggest a little work every day.  However, an early concentration should be utterly correct vowel sounds of "beach" and "sheet."  

The first time Mrs. T-B. said, "Doan go aysheep," only the context of the moment enabled me to understand this to be "Don't go ape-[poop]."

Yes, thank you for your input.  Also, this is hilarious!

 

On 7/25/2020 at 2:02 AM, TBoneTX said:

Until you squealed on yourself, I'd never have guessed in a zillion years that you weren't a native speaker/writer.  Holy mackerel.

Haha!  Thanks!   Unlike my husband, I do enjoy thoroughly learning other languages.  I still have a long way to go with Spanish and English! Haha

[TBoneTX 43,058]

4 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

VOILA

English-only outside the regional forums!  (Oh, uh... just a second here... uh...)

4 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

a "tilde", which is that symbol (or accent if you want to use the right adjective) that you use to emphasize a particular syllable visually

I always thought that the tilde was the squiggle over the ñ, and that the accent marks have French names (which I can't remember, but having to do with rightward/leftward, I think).

4 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

The rules for actually writing one in such as in "taquería" versus only emphasizing the syllable verbally such as in "farmacia", even though they look similar, come from different aspects such as the amount of syllables, where the tone emphasizes an accent as you break it into syllables, and the syllable in which the strong tone falls.  Depending on all of this, then you have specific accentuation rules that would determine whether or not the word will need a visual versus a verbal accent.

Where were you when I was single, huh ma'am?  This is the sort of stuff that I absolutely lap up.

4 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

you also have irregular words just like you would verbs.

Fortunately, Spanish seems to be far more regular than English.  I honestly don't know how anyone can learn English as a second language, because every time one thinks there's a rule, there ain't.

 

Let me know which techniques you're beginning to use with Hubby, and tell me how well they work/how well he likes them, so that I'll have a better idea of what to recommend to others.  The more that I think about it, the more I like the "Hey, come over here and pronounce this word for me" casual approach to start.  Very seriously, keep us all informed.

4 hours ago, Fe.Ta said:

I still have a long way to go with Spanish and English!

And you're the most modest, humble chica to have ever walked the face of the Earth, bar none.