When is 10 year green card taken away during citizenship process

[Hypnos 6,576]

It's against the ToS to advise others not to post.

 

I think we're done here.

[Leo7777 243]

4 hours ago, JFH said:

At the oath ceremony they will have passport application packs available for those who wish to apply immediately. Major passport offices (such as major cities) offer a rush service for a handsome fee for people with imminent travel. Her situation is no different from any natural born USC who has never had a passport but needs to travel overseas at short notice. They would also need to go through the passport application procedure. Except she has the added advantage that she can hold onto the GC and use that to travel by postponing her oath ceremony. 

 

You’re making this into something it’s not. 

I already posted there is no such office within driving distance of us.  And the rules clearly state this process is only for those who can provide proof of death of close relative or doctors signed and translated statements of pending death.  And, the rules clearly state that you must purchase ticket and show it with the application before you know if your application  will even be approved.   Doesn't matter that someone can state here that they know of cases when they didn't actually follow those rules.

[Leo7777 243]

13 hours ago, Hypnos said:

A naturalisation certificate is not a direct replacement for a green card.

Sure . . . it's easy to see your thinking from the USCIS wording:

 

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

That is to say 'no longer needed' actually means 'you still need it.'

[gregcrs2 1,777]

9 minutes ago, Leo7777 said:

Sure . . . it's easy to see your thinking from the USCIS wording:

 

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

That is to say 'no longer needed' actually means 'you still need it.'

 

 

Sorry but it seems this is all about being inconvenient for you.  She isn't required to become a US citizen.  That's the choice the two of you made.  There is no reason to visit a regional passport agency office when it can be done paying a fee through the many reputable 3rd party passport expediting services.  Even so, probably the nearest passport agency office for you to physically visit would be Washington DC, which is roughly 300 miles?  That's driving distance.  If it is so important for your spouse to travel half way around the world to help parents plant veggies then surely it is a reasonable drive to the Washington DC passport office if needed.

 

 

[Leo7777 243]

19 minutes ago, gregcrs2 said:

There is no reason to visit a regional passport agency office when it can be done paying a fee through the many reputable 3rd party passport expediting services.  Even so, probably the nearest passport agency office for you to physically visit would be Washington DC, which is roughly 300 miles?  That's driving distance.  If it is so important for your spouse to travel half way around the world to help parents plant veggies then surely it is a reasonable drive to the Washington DC passport office if needed.

 

 

Thanks Greg:

 

According to official government website:

 

If you need immediate passport, and you travel to Regional Passport Agency, or have your documents sent by passport expediting service, you must qualify as follows:

• A passport application with supporting documents
• Proof of the life-or-death emergency such as a death certificate, a statement from a mortuary, or a signed letter from a hospital or medical professional. Documents should be translated or in English.
• Proof of international travel (itinerary)

[gregcrs2 1,777]

1 minute ago, Leo7777 said:

Thanks Greg:

 

According to official government website:

 

If you need immediate passport, and you travel to Regional Passport Agency, or have your documents sent by passport expediting service, you must qualify as follows:

• A passport application with supporting documents
• Proof of the life-or-death emergency such as a death certificate, a statement from a mortuary, or a signed letter from a hospital or medical professional. Documents should be translated or in English.
• Proof of international travel (itinerary)

What you are quoting is a passport to be received within 72 hours for life or death emergencies.  Sorry but planting potatoes does not qualify as an emergency.

However, you can still get an expedited passport in less than 2-3 weeks. 

When do you need your passport?

 

When?	Why?	Service	How?
Right now	I have a life-or-death emergency	Expedited	See our "Life-or- Death Emergencies" page
Less than 2-3 weeks	I have urgent international travel plans. Example: you're traveling overseas on June 22. Beginning June 1, you should schedule an appointment at a passport agency or center that is on June 8 or later. You can only go to the actual appointment within 2 weeks of international travel (or 4 weeks if you need a visa).	Expedited	Make an appointment at a passport agency or center (bring proof of travel)
Less than 4-6 weeks	(No reason needed)	Expedited	Expedite at an acceptance facility or expedite a renewal by mail
More than 4-6 weeks	(No reason needed)	Routine	Apply at an acceptance facility or renew by mail

 

[Leo7777 243]

7 minutes ago, gregcrs2 said:

What you are quoting is a passport to be received within 72 hours for life or death emergencies.  Sorry but planting potatoes does not qualify as an emergency.

Greg, I don't understand why you are replying in this manner.

 

You clearly knew that I was showing a 2 day passport was not possible unless it was life or death emergencies.

So why are you stating in such a condescending manner that planting potatoes is not qualify?

And from a fellow with a Ukrainian relationship, same as me.

[Leo7777 243]

49 minutes ago, gregcrs2 said:

 

 

Sorry but it seems this is all about being inconvenient for you.  She isn't required to become a US citizen.  That's the choice the two of you made.  

Yes, we fully realize she isn't required to become USA citizen

Greg, I know you read my earlier post regarding this issue, but I will repeat here again.

 

We sent in her Citizenship application in January when the time tables provided on USCIS website showed estimated time of 10-12 months away.

That would be great because she could travel in May 2019 on 10 year green card and by May 2020 she would have USA passport.

 

But now, according your idea, she made a  wrong choice. 

So Greg give an honest answer as to what action you would take if it were you or your spouse:

 

1) Just cancel the citizenship application.  Travel in May on 10 year GC and start citizenship application again later.

2) Request delay of interview.

3) Refuse to go to first assigned Oath ceremony and ask for later date.

4) Just wait out the process and fail to go for second year in row to help parents.

[Leo7777 243]

I am sure that everyone knows that there is a simple change of rules/law that would completely eliminate this problem of not being able to travel between giving up 10 year green card and receiving US passport.

 

Quite simple:  Hand in 10 year Green Card when you are given USA passport.  In this manner, you always have something to travel on.

 

Yes, yes . . . I know the law has been quoted that says US citizens must depart and enter USA on USA passport.  And that you become USA citizen when you are handed the Certificate of Naturalization.

 

That's why my first sentence uses the word 'change.'

[gregcrs2 1,777]

21 minutes ago, Leo7777 said:

Greg, I don't understand why you are replying in this manner.

 

You clearly knew that I was showing a 2 day passport was not possible unless it was life or death emergencies.

So why are you stating in such a condescending manner that planting potatoes is not qualify?

And from a fellow with a Ukrainian relationship, same as me.

You don't need a 2 day passport.  You just need a passport in time for your desired intentions.  You come here and vent out to VJ members and don't like the responses.  I know it's frustrating for you but after a while it gets frustrating for VJ members too.  Seems you are looking for a loophole that doesn't exist and it seems you want to argue the facts.  The fact is that you have choices.  You can delay the interview or reschedule the oath ceremony until after returning.  Or you can keep your green card and cancel your N400.  Or you can cancel your plans for planting at the dacha this year.  Just because we are both Ukrainian does not mean I have to agree with you.  Your priorities are different than ours.  And really, is planting vegetables at your parent's dacha more important than getting your US citizenship during this time period?  Don't blame the system.  The system is much worse in Ukraine.

Edited March 3, 2019 by gregcrs2

[arken 4,197]

1 hour ago, Leo7777 said:

OK, I am going to irritate a lot of people . . . but I have never done that before, so I should be eligible !!  :-))

 

First, I fully understand that the entire process of getting married to foreigner, getting them legal status in USA and ultimately them getting citizenship is an honor and that we are all grateful that it is even possible.

 

Second, I fully admit that there are inconsistencies in the wording of USCIS statements and inconsistencies from person to person and office to office on how a case is handled.

 

But still . . . I must vent my frustration at this last stage . . . which should be the most comfortable of all given we have jumped through all the hoops . . . when in practice it is causing us the most trouble.

 

Let me address some prior posts and helpful replies from posters.

  Quote

And USCIS  even sort of guarantees that with their wording.

 

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

i.e. you don't need green card for travel because you now have a Cert of Naturalization for travel . . . who could not understand this ?

 

Arken replied:  Your understanding is incorrect. USCIS is simply stating you don’t need GC, a proof of residency since you are now a citizen. It’s not talking about travel.

 

I strongly disagree.  Nothing in USCIS statement would imply they are only talking about residency and not travel.  10 year GC is proof of residency and used for travel.  When USCIS says you no longer need GC because you have Cert of Naturalization . . . it means just that .  . . i.e. you can do everything with Cert that you could do with GC.   Since this is not true . . . then it is obvious that USCIS has seriously misworded their statements, and it is not me who have simply misinterpreted.

 

Example:  Suppose a person is receiving their permanent drivers license and is told . . . now turn in your learners permit because with DL you no longer need the learners permit.    So the person starts driving (just like they would start traveling with Cert of Naturalization) and is arrested for not having learners permit.  The person said:  I was told "don't need LP because now have DL."   Judge says:  "No, the meaning was you didn't need LP for proof of ID, it's not talking about actual driving."  See the stupidity of saying you no longer need something . . . and then later attaching limiting conditions as to when the statement is actually valid ?????

 

- - - - - - - 

 

OK that's some venting which no one wanted to hear !!   :-))

 

Now some personal things which no one wants to hear.

 

Wife went through the process of ROC and received the famous silly one year GC followed by 12 month extension letter and then 18 month extension letter.  When in possession of the extension letters, she was afraid to return to her home  country for the entire year because 'some' had had some trouble in trying to board the flights in home countries to return to USA due to boarding agents unfamiliarity with the validity of the extension letters.  Yes, I know some might  think that was silly, but it was the plan she followed.

 

Thus, at this point, she has not returned to see aged parents for over a year . . . and they plant huge garden every year starting in May which when she was on student visa, OPT visa, first 2 year GC she was able to be there to help.

 

We sent in her Citizenship application in January when the time tables provided on USCIS website showed estimated time of 10-12 months away.

That would be great because she could travel in May 2019 on 10 year green card and by May 2020 she would have USA passport.

Then we 'out of the blue' get interview scheduled for later this month.  Ordinarily   wooo hooo great, etc., etc.  Who could not want such an early surprise?

 

But now consider the timing.  Interview in late March, probable Oath ceremony in late April or mid May.  Then turn in Cert of Naturalization and apply for passport.  Receive passport late May.  Then look for airplane tickets which will cost something like 2X the price for travel in June or later compared to what they would cost if purchased a couple of weeks ago for travel in early May.  And no help for her aged parents for May planting for second year in a row.  And, no they will not accept money from her to hire others to help.

 

And to explain to aged parents that she cannot come as easily now that she is almost a USA citizen, as she could in the 8 or so prior years when she had only visa status and provisional GCs etc.  Makes a lot of sense to them . . . right ??  Actually sounds pretty phony to anyone who actually hears it.

OK, I just realized that some will suggest easy solutions:

1) Just cancel the citizenship application.  Travel in May on 10 year GC and start citizenship application again later.

2) Request delay of interview.

3) Refuse to go to first assigned Oath ceremony and ask for later date.

 

I am sure that, due to the anxiety of this entire process and due to current political wrangling the rules could change at any moment,  none here would actually do any of the above themselves.

 

 

Now I have outlined the personal . . . which no one wanted to hear !!!   Peace.  :-))

You can twist it the way you like and the way you please. You are using GC as travel document, try travelling with just the GC without a foreign passport!!!!

 

 I’ll give you an example. Say, for your sake, US allowed you to use the Naturalization certificate in place of a GC. So at the POE, you will show Naturalization certificate in place of the GC. They they’ll ask you for the passport coz that is the travel document. The certificate simply proves you are the citizen but without a travel document you cannot travel. When travelling with GC, you would show the foreign passport. As a citizen you have to show US Passport so u need a passport even when u were using GC, only this time it has to be US passport. Now if you have the US Passport  which shows u r a US citizen, why do u need the naturalization certificate for travel?? 

 

FYI, you example of DL and permit isn’t applicable here. DL or permit is a  actually a driving document. GC or naturalization certificate is not a travel document, they are just proof of your residency or citizenship. Passport is the travel document.

 

 

[Leo7777 243]

2 hours ago, arken said:

You can twist it the way you like and the way you please. You are using GC as travel document, try travelling with just the GC without a foreign passport!!!!

 

 I’ll give you an example. Say, for your sake, US allowed you to use the Naturalization certificate in place of a GC. So at the POE, you will show Naturalization certificate in place of the GC. They they’ll ask you for the passport coz that is the travel document. The certificate simply proves you are the citizen but without a travel document you cannot travel. When travelling with GC, you would show the foreign passport. As a citizen you have to show US Passport so u need a passport even when u were using GC, only this time it has to be US passport. Now if you have the US Passport  which shows u r a US citizen, why do u need the naturalization certificate for travel?? 

 

FYI, you example of DL and permit isn’t applicable here. DL or permit is a  actually a driving document. GC or naturalization certificate is not a travel document, they are just proof of your residency or citizenship. Passport is the travel document.

 

 

I disagree with you Arken.  Green Card IS a travel document, not just proof of residency.

 

Proof: Try to come into USA with a foreign passport and not show your valid Green Card.

When they ask you for your authority to travel into USA, i.e. a visa or green card . . . you say to them:

Arken told me green card is not a travel document, so I don't need to show it to you.

Green card is only for proof of residency that I must show to authorities after I am in my home city in case they want proof I am a legal resident.

 

And further you can show your Certificate of naturalization and the official website that says:  

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

Therefore, anything green card can be used for, Certificate of Naturalization can also be used for.

It says it right there in plain English.

 

Doesn't matter if you have or have not a USA passport.  Certificate of Naturalization along with your foreign passport can get you into USA because

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

- - - - - - -

 

Note:  Of course I know that the above is not allowed.  But you all know that I am showing that the written words of government indicate it can be done.

And you all know that you also believe the official wording on many official websites and documents is contradictory . . . and yet here with me you are coming up with twisted wording to try to support the contradictory wording.

[Leo7777 243]

2 hours ago, gregcrs2 said:

You don't need a 2 day passport.  You just need a passport in time for your desired intentions.  You come here and vent out to VJ members and don't like the responses.  I know it's frustrating for you but after a while it gets frustrating for VJ members too.  Seems you are looking for a loophole that doesn't exist and it seems you want to argue the facts.  The fact is that you have choices.  You can delay the interview or reschedule the oath ceremony until after returning.  Or you can keep your green card and cancel your N400.  Or you can cancel your plans for planting at the dacha this year.  Just because we are both Ukrainian does not mean I have to agree with you.  Your priorities are different than ours.  And really, is planting vegetables at your parent's dacha more important than getting your US citizenship during this time period?  Don't blame the system.  The system is much worse in Ukraine.

Greg, I  know you read my previous words because you are repeating some of the alternative here without addressing my question to you.

 

We sent in her Citizenship application in January when the time tables provided on USCIS website showed estimated time of 10-12 months away.

That would be great because she could travel in May 2019 on 10 year green card and by May 2020 she would have USA passport.

 

But now, according your idea, she made a  wrong choice. 

So Greg give an honest answer as to what action you would take, at this point in time,  if it were you or your spouse:

 

1) Just cancel the citizenship application.  Travel in May on 10 year GC and start citizenship application again later.

2) Request delay of interview.

3) Refuse to go to first assigned Oath ceremony and ask for later date.

4) Just wait out the process and fail to go for second year in row to help parents.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Leo7777

[gregcrs2 1,777]

54 minutes ago, Leo7777 said:

Greg, I  know you read my previous words because you are repeating some of the alternative here without addressing my question to you.

 

We sent in her Citizenship application in January when the time tables provided on USCIS website showed estimated time of 10-12 months away.

That would be great because she could travel in May 2019 on 10 year green card and by May 2020 she would have USA passport.

 

But now, according your idea, she made a  wrong choice. 

So Greg give an honest answer as to what action you would take, at this point in time,  if it were you or your spouse:

 

1) Just cancel the citizenship application.  Travel in May on 10 year GC and start citizenship application again later.

2) Request delay of interview.

3) Refuse to go to first assigned Oath ceremony and ask for later date.

4) Just wait out the process and fail to go for second year in row to help parents.

Personally speaking, if it were me and my spouse, #4 would be my answer.  I never said she made a wrong choice.  What I said is that she needs to decide what her priority is.  Will her parents plant veggies at the dacha without your spouse?  Of course they will.  Life goes on.  If she can't be there for planting, surely she could go help later.  The garden needs tending all summer.  Elderly Ukrainians are quite capable of tending their gardens well into their 80s and 90s.  Yes, it's more difficult but they get great pleasure and pride from it.

[Leo7777 243]

2 hours ago, gregcrs2 said:

Personally speaking, if it were me and my spouse, #4 would be my answer.  I never said she made a wrong choice.  What I said is that she needs to decide what her priority is.  Will her parents plant veggies at the dacha without your spouse?  Of course they will.  Life goes on.  If she can't be there for planting, surely she could go help later.  The garden needs tending all summer.  Elderly Ukrainians are quite capable of tending their gardens well into their 80s and 90s.  Yes, it's more difficult but they get great pleasure and pride from it.

Thanks for your honest answer Greg.