Sen. Al Franken Accused Of Sexual Assault By LA Model And Radio Host

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Like I said yesterday I give credit to Franken for immediately coming out and apologizing for his behavior,. However I feel he should go one step further and resign as a Senator. Sexual predatory is a massive issue with men particularly those men that are in a position of power. It is why other people like Moore and Trump need to own their behaviors and admit to wrong doing. Especially our President, he is the leader of the country and should be setting an example for everyone to follow.  When more and more women start accusing a man of wrong doing the likelihood of them doing said behaviors significantly increases.

 

Trump has had 16 women made accusations against him and Moore is now up to 9 I think. So the question is who do you believe more? the one man or the numerous women? At what value does the number of women coming out saying they're victims makes you think the man actually did it?

[bcking 3,157]

6 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Like I said yesterday I give credit to Franken for immediately coming out and apologizing for his behavior,. However I feel he should go one step further and resign as a Senator. Sexual predatory is a massive issue with men particularly those men that are in a position of power. It is why other people like Moore and Trump need to own their behaviors and admit to wrong doing. Especially our President, he is the leader of the country and should be setting an example for everyone to follow.  When more and more women start accusing a man of wrong doing the likelihood of them doing said behaviors significantly increases.

 

Trump has had 16 women made accusations against him and Moore is now up to 9 I think. So the question is who do you believe more? the one man or the numerous women? At what value does the number of women coming out saying they're victims makes you think the man actually did it?

Moore is up to 9 now?

 

I need to redo my calculations...

 

If we have a 50% chance that each woman is lying independently, there is only a 0.2% chance that all 9 women are lying.

 

I'm comfortable with those odds. I won't even bother with Trump's odds. Too many zeros before the number.

Edited November 17, 2017 by bcking

[Boiler 43,683]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

Moore is up to 9 now?

 

I need to redo my calculations...

 

If we have a 50% chance that each woman is lying independently, there is only a 0.2% chance that all 9 women are lying.

 

I'm comfortable with those odds. I won't even bother with Trump's odds. Too many zeros before the number.

What is the chance they are all telling the truth?

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Boiler said:

What is the chance they are all telling the truth?

They don't all have to be telling the truth.

 

It only takes one to be true for him to be a sexual predator/harasser/rapist. 

 

You wouldn't say "Oh well he only raped 1 out of 9 women so that's okay"...

Edited November 17, 2017 by bcking

[JimandChristy 1,689]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

Moore is up to 9 now?

 

I need to redo my calculations...

 

If we have a 50% chance that each woman is lying independently, there is only a 0.2% chance that all 9 women are lying.

 

I'm comfortable with those odds. I won't even bother with Trump's odds. Too many zeros before the number.

 

Well those odds are not quite right, it would only be truly independent if those women had never met one another before making those accusations. So I'm not sure in either case if these women ever did.

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, JimandChristy said:

 

Well those odds are not quite right, it would only be truly independent if those women had never met one another before making those accusations. So I'm not sure in either case if these women ever did.

Ya I am assuming independence.

 

But then again a 50% chance of each being false is quite conservative I would say, best on the available literature that was provided. That includes all of the cases that were "thrown out" for lack of evidence, and we know that at least some of those would have been true.

 

I've said consistently that there would be a factor to account for the chances of conspiracy between multiple accusers. That would clearly increase the risk of falsehood by some unknown margin. We don't have any data to suggest by what margin though, so we would just have to make educated guesses. I still stand by the fact that the likelihood of a conspiracy is less than the likelihood of individual false accusations (going off the assumption that a conspiracy is more complicated, and the simplest explanations are typically more likely). So the risk of conspiracy is at least less than the risk of individual false accusations.

 

Again though, even if we were incredibly conservative and increased the risk of falsehood by 10 times...we would still only have a 2% chance. Even 100 times would only give us a 20% chance of them all being false. 

[bcking 3,157]

Going back to the original topic (Franken) -

 

I haven't read every article on the "kiss" aspect, but I'm wondering how others have been interpreting it...

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/leeann-tweeden-al-franken-the-lead/index.html

 

In this article they write:

 

"Tweeden explained the incident happened backstage before a USO skit after Franken suggested they rehearse the kiss scene. Despite reservations, Tweeden said she eventually agreed to it, and Franken "puts his hand on the back of my neck and comes in so fast. There was not finesse to it at all -- let's put it that way. And he just mashes his mouth to my lips. It was wet and he puts his tongue in my mouth and I push his chest away with my hands."

 

Now the description there makes it sound clearly inappropriate (my first response is just "eww" when imagining Franken coming at you for a sloppy kiss). However I do find it interesting the way they wrote it. They said that he proposed rehearsing the kiss scene, and that Tweeden "said she eventually agreed to it". Of course that's not clear if she meant agreed to practice the scene, or practice the actual kiss. 

 

Is that how it is written elsewhere? I haven't listened to her in interviews directly to see how she puts it. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

2 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

Like I said yesterday I give credit to Franken for immediately coming out and apologizing for his behavior,. However I feel he should go one step further and resign as a Senator. Sexual predatory is a massive issue with men particularly those men that are in a position of power. It is why other people like Moore and Trump need to own their behaviors and admit to wrong doing. Especially our President, he is the leader of the country and should be setting an example for everyone to follow.  When more and more women start accusing a man of wrong doing the likelihood of them doing said behaviors significantly increases.

 

Trump has had 16 women made accusations against him and Moore is now up to 9 I think. So the question is who do you believe more? the one man or the numerous women? At what value does the number of women coming out saying they're victims makes you think the man actually did it?

I am feeling the same way, even though I have a real sense of loss for the expertise he was developing.  I think he is the only non-lawyer on the Judiciary and he was doing well.  Education, Ag, Veterans, Children, and Education; he was really digging in and doing some good work.  Without his effort, Comcast and Time Warner would be merged now which I think would be bad for America.   A loss for the progressive cause, but it looks now the right thing.   

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Il Mango Dulce

[Boiler 43,683]

2 hours ago, bcking said:

They don't all have to be telling the truth.

 

It only takes one to be true for him to be a sexual predator/harasser/rapist. 

 

You wouldn't say "Oh well he only raped 1 out of 9 women so that's okay"...

So what are the chances say half of them are lying?

[bcking 3,157]

20 minutes ago, Boiler said:

So what are the chances say half of them are lying?

Pick the percent chance of lying you'd like to use (50% or whatever) and then multiply it by itself the number of times for the number of false accusations (0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 for 4 false accusations). You can do the math.

 

As I said, after one true rape accusations, does it really matter even if all the other 8 were lies? The guy would still be a rapist.

Edited November 17, 2017 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

9 minutes ago, bcking said:

Pick the percent chance of lying you'd like to use (50% or whatever) and then multiply it by itself the number of times for the number of false accusations (0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 for 4 false accusations). You can do the math.

 

As I said, after one true rape accusations, does it really matter even if all the other 8 were lies? The guy would still be a rapist.

Because the truth doesn't matter does it ?

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Because the truth doesn't matter does it ?

Of course it matters.

 

If a person raped one person they are a rapist. Doesn't matter for their guilt in that case if 10 other people liked and pretended they also raped them.

 

Of course those liars should be, rightfully, exposed. But at the end of the day the person is still a rapist.

 

That is why multiple allegations is so damning for someone. In order to be innocent they ALL need to be lies. In order to be guilty only one needs to be true.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

Of course it matters.

 

If a person raped one person they are a rapist. Doesn't matter for their guilt in that case if 10 other people liked and pretended they also raped them.

 

Of course those liars should be, rightfully, exposed. But at the end of the day the person is still a rapist.

 

That is why multiple allegations is so damning for someone. In order to be innocent they ALL need to be lies. In order to be guilty only one needs to be true.

No in order to be guilty of 10 counts of rape they would have had to be guilty of 10 counts of rape

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

No in order to be guilty of 10 counts of rape they would have had to be guilty of 10 counts of rape

We are talking about Moore here. None of the accusations will go to trial because of the dates of the events so he won't be found guilty of any counts. That doesn't change whether he is, in truth, guilty of any of the accusations.

 

We are talking about the court of public opinion and whether a rapist should run for election.

 

If he only raped 1 out of 9 women would you give him a pass? I guess maybe you figure 1 out of 9 "ain't bad".

 

I'd say it only takes one true case to mean he should step down. I don't need all 9 to be true. He molested, assault or raped one girl and that's enough for me.

 

Maybe our standards are different though.

Edited November 17, 2017 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

We are talking about Moore here. None of the accusations will go to trial so he won't be found guilty of any counts.

 

We are talking about the court of public opinion and whether a rapist should run for election.

 

If he only raped 1 out of 9 women would you give him a pass? I guess we can figure 1 out of 9 ain't bad.

So if we are talking specifically about Moore , then he is not accused of raping anyone. Why are we talking about Rape.

 

He is accused of child molestation . Yes I think he is guilty.