Jump to content

14 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Posted

WACO, Texas (AP) -- In the ashes of the Branch Davidian site where 81 people died in a 1993 blaze after an armed standoff with federal agents, a new religious community is slowly taking shape.

Charles Pace, leader of The Branch, The Lord of Righteousness sect of the Branch Davidians, hopes to open a museum for tourists in addition to building a tabernacle and wellness center as part of his new church.

But the few remaining Branch Davidians who once lived at the compound oppose Pace and his plans, saying the museum won't be an accurate representation of the events of April 19, 1993, because he was not there and despised their leader David Koresh.

"He'll portray us as deceived and put us down and say David Koresh was the devil," said Clive Doyle, who survived the fire and lived at the site until leaving last year because of conflicts with Pace.

On February 28, 1993, authorities tried to arrest Koresh for stockpiling guns and explosives. The ensuing shootout killed four U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents and six Davidians.

51-day standoff

That began a 51-day standoff that ended with an inferno that survivors say was ignited by tear gas rounds fired into the buildings.

The government claims the Davidians committed suicide by setting the fire and shooting themselves. A 10-month independent investigation concluded in 2000 that Koresh was solely to blame.

The raid, the siege and its fiery conclusion were seen by some as an unwarranted government intrusion into personal and religious freedoms. Exactly two years after the Texas tragedy, Timothy McVeigh detonated a bomb at the Oklahoma City federal building, killing 168 people in an act intended to avenge the Davidians' deaths.

Pace, 57, returned in 1994 to the Waco-area property -- owned by the church, an offshoot of the Seventh-day Adventists.

"I just felt I needed to be here to represent the true church," he said.

Since then he and his family have lived on its 77 acres of sprawling pastures and ponds.

Some say Koresh misled followers

Pace believes Koresh misled his followers, but said they thought they were following God's will. Despite his differences with the sect, Pace blames the U.S. government for the Davidians' death.

Visitors still come to the site about 10 miles east of Waco. But there are no signs directing them there or markers commemorating its notorious place in history; only a few charred remnants of the compound remain, piled under some brush near a swimming pool. Near a small chapel built a few years later are plaques with names of the Davidians and ATF agents who died.

People sympathetic to the group planted a simple memorial of trees and placed under each one a granite stone inscribed with the names of the Branch Davidians who died in the 1993 standoff.

But Pace removed the stones, destroying Koresh's, and is contemplating tearing down the trees, saying they are an abomination, according to the Bible. Instead, he plans to build a wall from the stones, with a new stone bearing Koresh's real name, Vernon Howell.

In addition, Pace, foresees the establishment of "a spiritual community" on the property, with families living in separate houses or mobile homes, as opposed to the group living situation that existed under Koresh. They would attend church and seek treatment at a wellness center.

"I believe people are going to be coming here seeking truth, and they're going to find it and they're going to be healed, physically and spiritually," said Pace, a licensed massage therapist.

Ray Feight Sr., a contractor who lives at the site and attends its church, said the goal is to change the negative image.

"We want the David Koresh thing to be history; we want to go on," Feight said. "It's daunting -- we don't have the finances or the means to do all this. It seems like when God calls people to do this, there's no way, but it's all about restoration and healing. The image of this scarred land needs to be healed."

Waco tries to distance itself

Pace estimates that the project will take years -- and several million dollars in donations -- to complete, partly because the property lacks running water and a septic system.

Waco has long tried to distance itself from the tragic events.

Jim Vaughan, director of the Greater Waco Chamber of Commerce, said raising millions to develop such a memorial is unlikely without "a whole lot of meetings and input and conversations in the community."

"You have to ask, `What is the story that the community would want to tell?"' he asked.

Doyle, whose 18-year-old daughter died in the blaze, leads weekly services at his apartment for the handful of Davidians who still follow Koresh's teachings. Doyle said he wishes the site could have a larger memorial telling the victims' story, but he refuses to participate in Pace's project or to give him the Davidians' mementos that Doyle displayed in his own museum there a few years ago.

Sheila Martin, who left the compound during the standoff with three of her children but lost her husband and four other children in the fire, said she also opposes Pace's plans. She said he was not trying to honor the victims but call attention to himself.

"I don't think it's anything that God is pleased with," Martin said.

Peace to All creatures great and small............................................

But when we turn to the Hebrew literature, we do not find such jokes about the donkey. Rather the animal is known for its strength and its loyalty to its master (Genesis 49:14; Numbers 22:30).

Peppi_drinking_beer.jpg

my burro, bosco ..enjoying a beer in almaty

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&id=10835

Filed: K-3 Visa Country: Mexico
Timeline
Posted

:blink:

Daniel

:energetic:

Ana (Mexico) ------ Daniel (California)(me)

---------------------------------------------

Sept. 11, 2004: Got married (civil), in Mexico :D

July 23, 2005: Church wedding

===============================

K3(I-129F):

Oct. 28, 2004: Mailed I-129F.

~USPS, First-Class, Certified Mail, Rtn Recpt ($5.80)

Nov. 3, 2004: NOA1!!!!

Nov. 5, 2004: Check Cashed!!

zzzz deep hibernationn zzzz

May 12, 2005 NOA2!!!! #######!!! huh???

off to NVC.

May 26, 2005: NVC approves I129F.

CR1(I-130):

Oct. 6, 2004: Mailed I-130.

~USPS, First-Class, Certified Mail, Rtn Recpt ($5.80)

Oct. 8, 2004: I-130 Delivered to CSC in Laguna Niguel.

~Per USPS website's tracking tool.

Oct. 12, 2004 BCIS-CSC Signs for I-130 packet.

Oct. 21, 2004 Check cashed!

Oct. 25, 2004 NOA1 (I-130) Go CSC!!

Jan. 05, 2005 Approved!!!! Off to NVC!!!!

===============================

NVC:

Jan. 05, 2005 ---> in route from CSC

Jan. 12, 2005 Case entered system

Jan. 29, 2005 Received I-864 Bill

Jan. 31, 2005 Sent Payment to St. Louis(I864)

Feb. 01, 2005 Wife received DS3032(Choice of Agent)

Feb. 05, 2005 Payment Received in St. Louis(I864)

Feb. 08, 2005 Sent DS3032 to Portsmouth NH

Feb. 12, 2005 DS3032 Received by NVC

Mar. 04, 2005 Received IV Bill

Mar. 04, 2005 Sent IV Bill Payment

Mar. 08, 2005 Received I864

Mar. 19, 2005 Sent I864

Mar. 21, 2005 I864 Received my NVC

Apr. 18, 2005 Received DS230

Apr. 19, 2005 Sent DS230

Apr. 20, 2005 DS230 received by NVC (signed by S Merfeld)

Apr. 22, 2005 DS230 entered NVC system

Apr. 27, 2005 CASE COMPLETE

May 10, 2005 CASE SENT TO JUAREZ

Off to Cd. Juarez! :D

calls to NVC: 6

===============================

CIUDAD JUAREZ, American Consulate:

Apr. 27, 2005 case completed at NVC.

May 10, 2005 in route to Juarez.

May 25, 2005 Case at consulate.

===============================

-- Legal Disclaimer:What I say is only a reflection of what I did, going to do, or may do; it may also reflect what I have read others did, are going to do, or may do. What you do or may do is what you do or may do. You do so or may do so strictly out of your on voilition; or follow what a lawyer advised you to do, or may do. Having said that: have a nice day!

Filed: Country: Belarus
Timeline
Posted

It's a non-event as long as they behave themselves.

"Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: Those who should get in, get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave."

"...for the system to be credible, people actually have to be deported at the end of the process."

US Congresswoman Barbara Jordan (D-TX)

Testimony to the House Immigration Subcommittee, February 24, 1995

Posted (edited)

i think they have the right..

and it is an event as evident by still the strong reaction some folks have to what happen there...

was there a government cover-up..? how about ruby ridge?

Edited by almaty

Peace to All creatures great and small............................................

But when we turn to the Hebrew literature, we do not find such jokes about the donkey. Rather the animal is known for its strength and its loyalty to its master (Genesis 49:14; Numbers 22:30).

Peppi_drinking_beer.jpg

my burro, bosco ..enjoying a beer in almaty

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&id=10835

Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Egypt
Timeline
Posted

Where is Janet Reno?

Don't just open your mouth and prove yourself a fool....put it in writing.

It gets harder the more you know. Because the more you find out, the uglier everything seems.

kodasmall3.jpg

Posted
Where is Janet Reno?

and the federal marshall with their flame throwing tanks?

Peace to All creatures great and small............................................

But when we turn to the Hebrew literature, we do not find such jokes about the donkey. Rather the animal is known for its strength and its loyalty to its master (Genesis 49:14; Numbers 22:30).

Peppi_drinking_beer.jpg

my burro, bosco ..enjoying a beer in almaty

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&id=10835

Filed: K-3 Visa Country: Philippines
Timeline
Posted

I don't believe the gov't torched the place but I couldn't care less if they did it. Koresh was a sick ** and the world is much better off without him.

Married on 11/21/06 in her hometown city Tumauini located in the Isabela province (Republic of the Philippines)

I-129 Timeline

12/12/06 - Mailed I-129 package to Chicago Service Center

12/14/06 - Received by Chicago Service Center

12/18/06 - NOA1 notice date from Missouri (NBC)

12/21/06 - NOA1 received in mail

12/27, 12/29, 12/31 - Touches

01/06/07 - Transfered to California Service Center

01/11/07 - Arrived at California Service Center

1/12, 1/16, 1/17, 2/6 - Touches

02/06/07 - NOA2 from California Service Center

02/11/07 - Received NOA2 in mail

02/15/07 - Arrived at the NVC - MNL case # assigned

02/20/07 - Sent to US Embassy in Manila

02/26/07 - Received at Embassy

03/30/07 - Packet 4 received

05/09/07 - Medical scheduled (did early)

05/16/07 - Interview

05/23/07 - Visa Delivered

05/25/07 - POE in Newark, NJ

I-130 Timeline

11/27/06 - Mailed I-130 package to Texas Service Center

11/29/06 - Package received by Texas Service Center

12/06/06 - NOA1 notice date from California Service Center

12/09/06 - Touch

12/11/06 - NOA1 received in mail

02/06/07 - NOA2 from California Service Center

02/11/07 - Received NOA2 in mail (I-130 held at CSC)

--------------------

Pinoy Info Forum - For the members of Asawa.org in diaspora

Posted
I don't believe the gov't torched the place but I couldn't care less if they did it. Koresh was a sick ** and the world is much better off without him.

whabt about the youngsters in there brother?

Peace to All creatures great and small............................................

But when we turn to the Hebrew literature, we do not find such jokes about the donkey. Rather the animal is known for its strength and its loyalty to its master (Genesis 49:14; Numbers 22:30).

Peppi_drinking_beer.jpg

my burro, bosco ..enjoying a beer in almaty

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&id=10835

Posted
Where is Janet Reno?

You beat me to it. Keep her away and things will be fine.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Egypt
Timeline
Posted

Janet has a whole lot of blood on her hands.She didn't care about the children. Look how she ordered the goon squad to go in after that little Gonzales boy.

Don't just open your mouth and prove yourself a fool....put it in writing.

It gets harder the more you know. Because the more you find out, the uglier everything seems.

kodasmall3.jpg

Filed: K-3 Visa Country: Philippines
Timeline
Posted
I don't believe the gov't torched the place but I couldn't care less if they did it. Koresh was a sick ** and the world is much better off without him.

whabt about the youngsters in there brother?

That's the sad thing in this story and I think that's the only reason they didn't do a full military assault right away. In the end Koresh and his followers got what they had coming to them but the kids definitely didn't deserve their fate. I still think the fires were set by the Davidians themselves though.

Married on 11/21/06 in her hometown city Tumauini located in the Isabela province (Republic of the Philippines)

I-129 Timeline

12/12/06 - Mailed I-129 package to Chicago Service Center

12/14/06 - Received by Chicago Service Center

12/18/06 - NOA1 notice date from Missouri (NBC)

12/21/06 - NOA1 received in mail

12/27, 12/29, 12/31 - Touches

01/06/07 - Transfered to California Service Center

01/11/07 - Arrived at California Service Center

1/12, 1/16, 1/17, 2/6 - Touches

02/06/07 - NOA2 from California Service Center

02/11/07 - Received NOA2 in mail

02/15/07 - Arrived at the NVC - MNL case # assigned

02/20/07 - Sent to US Embassy in Manila

02/26/07 - Received at Embassy

03/30/07 - Packet 4 received

05/09/07 - Medical scheduled (did early)

05/16/07 - Interview

05/23/07 - Visa Delivered

05/25/07 - POE in Newark, NJ

I-130 Timeline

11/27/06 - Mailed I-130 package to Texas Service Center

11/29/06 - Package received by Texas Service Center

12/06/06 - NOA1 notice date from California Service Center

12/09/06 - Touch

12/11/06 - NOA1 received in mail

02/06/07 - NOA2 from California Service Center

02/11/07 - Received NOA2 in mail (I-130 held at CSC)

--------------------

Pinoy Info Forum - For the members of Asawa.org in diaspora

Posted
I don't believe the gov't torched the place but I couldn't care less if they did it. Koresh was a sick ** and the world is much better off without him.

whabt about the youngsters in there brother?

That's the sad thing in this story and I think that's the only reason they didn't do a full military assault right away. In the end Koresh and his followers got what they had coming to them but the kids definitely didn't deserve their fate. I still think the fires were set by the Davidians themselves though.

i also, think the fire was not intentional by the governement, possible started due to tear gas or some other reason

Peace to All creatures great and small............................................

But when we turn to the Hebrew literature, we do not find such jokes about the donkey. Rather the animal is known for its strength and its loyalty to its master (Genesis 49:14; Numbers 22:30).

Peppi_drinking_beer.jpg

my burro, bosco ..enjoying a beer in almaty

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&id=10835

Posted

Went out there when I was at Baylor (in Waco) just to see it. Creepy. It's sad what happened there to all of the innocent children regardless of whose fault it was.

Our Visa Journey

2007

2/13 - I-129F sent to TSC

7/31 - K1 - APPROVED

8/5 - POE @ Dallas/Ft. Worth

8/11 - Wedding!!

10/15 - received Greencard

2009

Got 10-year Greencard

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
- Back to Top -

Important Disclaimer: Please read carefully the Visajourney.com Terms of Service. If you do not agree to the Terms of Service you should not access or view any page (including this page) on VisaJourney.com. Answers and comments provided on Visajourney.com Forums are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Visajourney.com does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. VisaJourney.com does not condone immigration fraud in any way, shape or manner. VisaJourney.com recommends that if any member or user knows directly of someone involved in fraudulent or illegal activity, that they report such activity directly to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You can contact ICE via email at Immigration.Reply@dhs.gov or you can telephone ICE at 1-866-347-2423. All reported threads/posts containing reference to immigration fraud or illegal activities will be removed from this board. If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by contacting us here with a url link to that content. Thank you.
×
×
  • Create New...