Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Just now, sarahandyunus said:

*aisle 

In my world it's the same thang 

[sarahandyunus 133]

One is an a small island, the other is a walkway *facepalm* 

[Unidentified 2,930]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Well we are talking about paying for medical treatments that are the results of choices that are totally preventable,  even a caveman could see the easy correlation  

 

 

And how is gender dysphoria preventable?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, Unidentified said:

And how is gender dysphoria preventable?

It's a choice,  just like compulsive eating disorders or nicotine addiction,  right 

[IAMX 3,055]

8 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Well we are talking about paying for medical treatments that are the results of choices that are totally preventable,  even a caveman could see the easy correlation  

 

 

Of course, the left are gonna have to battle science.. such as...

 

https://www.healio.com/hepatology/viral-hepatitis/news/online/{1e949912-e0d4-4215-b34d-094172e73b6e}/sex-dictates-liver-disease-risk-in-hepatitis-b

Quote

 

Men with hepatitis B are at increased risk for severe liver disease compared with women; however, lifestyle and environmental related exposures cannot explain the sex differences, suggesting biological causes, according to data published in PLoS One.

“Previous studies have observed that, among hepatitis B chronic infection patients, males are more likely than females to develop and die from [hepatocellular carcinoma],” Jing Sun, PhD, a post-doctoral fellow at Johns Hopkins University, and colleagues wrote. “Some have speculated that the gender discrepancy may be due to lifestyle-related differences, since previous epidemiologic studies have shown that lifestyle-related exposures (eg, alcohol consumption and smoking habits) increased the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma in hepatitis B infected patients.”

 

.. explaining how a male identifying as a female would magically alter their genetics and change the increased risk for Hepatitis B.

 

That non-SJW science.. so bigoted.

Edited August 2, 2017 by IAMX

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I am all for anything anyone wants to do as long, as I do not have to witness it, condone it or fund it.

 

 

[OriZ 3,165]

9 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I guess they do rationing in the U.K.

 

• Henry Bodkin
• 2 September 2016 • 10:00pm

  Obese people will be routinely refused operations across the NHS, health service bosses have warned, after one authority said it would limit procedures on an unprecedented scale.

  Hospital leaders in North Yorkshire said that patients with a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or above – as well as smokers – will be barred from most surgery for up to a year amid increasingly desperate measures to plug a funding black hole. The restrictions will apply to standard hip and knee operations.

  The decision, described by the Royal College of Surgeons as the “most severe the modern NHS has ever seen”, led to warnings that other trusts will soon be forced to follow suit and rationing will become the norm if the current funding crisis continues.

   

   

  Chris Hopson, the head of NHS Providers, which represents acute care, ambulance and community services, said: “I think we are going to see more and more decisions like this.

  “It’s the only way providers are going to be able to balance their books, and in a way you have to applaud their honesty. You can see why they’re doing this – the service is bursting at the seams.” 

  The announcement is the latest in a series of setbacks for patients who are facing rolling strikes by junior doctors that threaten to cripple the health service as winter approaches.

  The decision by Vale of York Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) comes amid increasing limits across the NHS on surgery for cataracts as well as hip and knee operations.

  .

  .

  .

  Last month St Helens CCG in Merseyside said it was considering temporarily suspending all non-essential hospital referrals by GPs because of financial concerns.

  Reports of rationing have emerged after NHS England admitted in May that its provider sector overspent by £2.45 billion in 2015-16,  more than a threefold increase on the previous year.

  The figure, which was described as conservative by think-tanks, prompted some hospital chief executives to question the future viability of free universal healthcare.

   

  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/02/obese-patients-and-smokers-banned-from-all-routine-operations-by/

   

   

To start with the BMI is useless IMO. There are much better ways to gauge...there are too many factors the BMI does not consider. I do think they need to at least encourage smokers to quit when it comes to certain procedures. I also know there are certain procedures even today in the US where they require smokers to quit before they do the procedure(although there's really no way to tell if they actually did). 

 

5 hours ago, Unidentified said:

Okay I haven't read the article but... Isn't there already restrictions on obese and smokers because of the risk surgery pose on these people? Insane that they will do it for budget reasons but I thought it was already sort of happening due to safety for the patient. 

I was going to add that to my above post but then once I saw yours I figure I would do it in response to you...and that is also very true. I personally know someone who's waiting for hip replacement and cannot have it done yet because he's too overweight. It's not just the hip which would kinda make sense since he's gotta use it but there's something with his heart too that they can't operate on due to his weight.

 

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Car accidents and homicides don’t tell us much about health care quality

 

Another point worth making is that people die for other reasons than health. For example, people die because of car accidents and violent crime. A few years back, Robert Ohsfeldt of Texas A&M and John Schneider of the University of Iowa asked the obvious question: what happens if you remove deaths from fatal injuries from the life expectancy tables? Among the 29 members of the OECD, the U.S. vaults from 19th place to…you guessed it…first. Japan, on the same adjustment, drops from first to ninth.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/#5ba3bcb32b98

I don't like that list for several reasons; For one the age of it as Boiler mentioned. I think we need an updated one and I think we need ALL countries, not just OECD ones. Also I think if we're going to remove accidents then we might as well just remove wars and terror attacks as well. At the time Israel was not a member of the OECD yet but today it is, in this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#cite_note-11 same as boiler's I believe it is 8th for example in total, and of OECD nation's 7th(at the bottom of the page). The US is actually now even lower than it was when they put together the one you posted. However if you removed wars and terror attacks maybe that could change. Also another thing I like about this is they measure the HALE life expectancy which is very important, even moreso then just how long someone lives for. Many people in the US are plagued with many different conditions, when you look at HALE the US actually drops from 31 to 36.

 

4 hours ago, sarahandyunus said:

If you can't commit to taking care of yourself why should healthcare providers spend resources/time on you? The same policies should be implemented in the US as well. Obesity and smoking are choices and should be approached as such. 

I am more against smoking than probably anybody could be but...I don't think that's a good criteria to go by. Also at least when it comes to obesity sometimes it's actually not a choice. There are many different things that can cause obesity besides somebody eating unhealthy.

Edited August 2, 2017 by OriZ

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

We should add people that contract Aids thru unprotected sex to  the list

 

Thats a choice

[OriZ 3,165]

7 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

We should add people that contract Aids thru unprotected sex to  the list

 

Thats a choice

People who eat too much red meat and end up with cancer, screw them. People who drink alcohol and end up with cancer, screw them too. Screw people who like their fries burnt too or who drink out of a plastic bottle that sat in the sun. The possibilities are endless.

Edited August 2, 2017 by OriZ

[smilesammich 10,727]

slip and fall in the shower? better stay down, bathing is a choice.

nothing pregnancy related should ever be covered by insurance - you'd better be able to cover that birth in cash, getting knocked up is a choice. why should i have to pay?

any childhood illness or disease your offspring might come down with, hope you've got a savings fund for that - having a kid is a choice. 

people who get in car accidents, or pedestrians injured by cars or bikes or skateboards or wheelchairs or whatever..set up a go fund me. leaving the house is a choice.

 

 

 

[Umka36 781]

5 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

90 day Fiance the British Version!

UK version would be 180 day fiancé.

 

Fiance / Fiancee Visa Requirements

• The sponsor and the applicant must intend to get married within a six month period.
• They must have met each other.
• They must intend to live together permanently.
• The applicant must be able to support him/herself, or be supported by their partner, without access to public funds.
• There must be adequate accommodation in place.

http://www.visabureau.com/uk/fiance-visa.aspx

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

slip and fall in the shower? better stay down, bathing is a choice.

nothing pregnancy related should ever be covered by insurance - you'd better be able to cover that birth in cash, getting knocked up is a choice. why should i have to pay?

any childhood illness or disease your offspring might come down with, hope you've got a savings fund for that - having a kid is a choice. 

people who get in car accidents, or pedestrians injured by cars or bikes or skateboards or wheelchairs or whatever..set up a go fund me. leaving the house is a choice.

 

 

 

Exactly. You get the absurdity of the original argument 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Just now, Umka36 said:

UK version would be 180 day fiancé.

 

Fiance / Fiancee Visa Requirements

• The sponsor and the applicant must intend to get married within a six month period.
• They must have met each other.
• They must intend to live together permanently.
• The applicant must be able to support him/herself, or be supported by their partner, without access to public funds.
• There must be adequate accommodation in place.
• Provide weapons and ammo according to the cultural norms from whence the applicant comes from

http://www.visabureau.com/uk/fiance-visa.aspx

fixed

[IAMX 3,055]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Exactly. You get the absurdity of the original argument 

Doubtful.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, IAMX said:

Doubtful.

That was tongue in cheek. I am just hoping for a free sandwich