James Comey testimony: Trump asked me to let Flynn investigation go

[IAMX 3,055]

8 minutes ago, ccneat said:

More free legal advice! 

I figure there's so many psychologists on Donald Trump's persona offering their pro bono expertise, need some legal experts too.  #balance

Edited June 11, 2017 by IAMX

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 minute ago, IAMX said:

I figure there's so many psychologists on Donald Trump's persona offering their pro bono expertise, need some legal experts too.  #balance

And yet with all of our free analysis the prez still acts crazy.

[IAMX 3,055]

1 minute ago, ccneat said:

And yet with all of our free analysis the prez still acts crazy.

You'd think the left would find a lot in common with that. What gives?

[bcking 3,157]

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

So what you are saying is that if a president shares his thoughts on an investigation that doesn't apply to himself directly (remember, Comey verified that fact) he is guilty of trying to obstruct justice.  Again, Trump could has easily ended the investigation much like George H.W. Bush did with Casper Weinberger, or what Gerald Ford did with Nixon.  Where they both obstructing justice?

Saying "I hope YOU can let this go" (or approx that) is very different than "Gosh I hope in the end the investigation goes well and Flynn turns out okay".

 

Giving your passive comments on the investigation is different than speaking to someone directly and saying you "hope" (polite boss speak for "want") that YOU (single out person leading the investigation) can let it go.

3 hours ago, IAMX said:

Is that why Comey was recommended by his own branch to be investigated? Sounds like tons of respect to me. 

 

 

Both are partly lying and partly telling the truth.

There is no such thing as "attempted" obstruction. Either there's obstruction (obstruction itself is an overt attempt) and meets the criteria of it, or there isn't. We don't get to make up crimes just because we're still in November tantrum mode.

Sorry I'll try to be more clear.

 

You commit the crime whether your attempt at obstructing is successful or not. It doesn't matter if Trump successfully obstructed the investigation. If he tried to, even if he tried in a very stupid way (which I agree he went about it poorly) he is still guilty. Focusing on whether the method he used was smart, or whether he was successful as a means of measuring his guilt is pointless. Neither matter.

[Dashinka 26,190]

6 minutes ago, bcking said:

Saying "I hope YOU can let this go" (or approx that) is very different than "Gosh I hope in the end the investigation goes well and Flynn turns out okay".

 

Giving your passive comments on the investigation is different than speaking to someone directly and saying you "hope" (polite boss speak for "want") that YOU (single out person leading the investigation) can let it go.

Sorry I'll try to be more clear.

 

You commit the crime whether your attempt at obstructing is successful or not. It doesn't matter if Trump successfully obstructed the investigation. If he tried to, even if he tried in a very stupid way (which I agree he went about it poorly) he is still guilty. Focusing on whether the method he used was smart, or whether he was successful as a means of measuring his guilt is pointless. Neither matter.

So a parent with a child being investigated for a crime believes the child is innocent and they ask the police that they "hope the investigation goes away" is guilty of attempted obstruction of justice?  Yes, it is different as Trump is the president, but with that position they have much more power than a parent.  If this is obstruction, why did Comey not attempt to clarify the comment with all his experience as a prosecutor and head of the FBI?  I know, he was so shocked of the proceedings he wasn't thinking straight, but Comey did confirm that in subsequent conversations there was no mention of Flynn, so if Trump was demanding an end and that didn't happen, I think there would have been more discussion.  Trump's intent seems petty clear and it seems much more like the parent in the example I gave at the beginning.

[Dashinka 26,190]

4 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

So in your opinion who is lying Comey or Trump?

Both of them are not to be trusted.  The provenance of Comey's memos are questionable, and we all know Trump is a blowhard that just spouts off from time to time.  And let's not forget that Comey admitted to being a leaker of information and there is still the question as to when he orchestrated those leaks as compared to the Trump tweets.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[bcking 3,157]

10 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So a parent with a child being investigated for a crime believes the child is innocent and they ask the police that they "hope the investigation goes away" is guilty of attempted obstruction of justice?  Yes, it is different as Trump is the president, but with that position they have much more power than a parent.  If this is obstruction, why did Comey not attempt to clarify the comment with all his experience as a prosecutor and head of the FBI?  I know, he was so shocked of the proceedings he wasn't thinking straight, but Comey did confirm that in subsequent conversations there was no mention of Flynn, so if Trump was demanding an end and that didn't happen, I think there would have been more discussion.  Trump's intent seems petty clear and it seems much more like the parent in the example I gave at the beginning.

If the parent is chief of police, or directly responsible for the job appointments. Also that parent had, only about a month earlier, stated that he/she expected loyalty from the person ultimately investigating their child. I think it would fit quite nicely.

 

The only way I see Trump in an innocent light (not actually innocent though) in all of this is if he is such a massive idiot he didn't realise that pressuring the FBI director would be illegal. Sadly that may very well be the case.

 

The fact that he was pressuring the FBI director to end the investigation is quite obvious to anyone who isn't intentionally trying to be obtuse.

[Dashinka 26,190]

51 minutes ago, bcking said:

If the parent is chief of police, or directly responsible for the job appointments. Also that parent had, only about a month earlier, stated that he/she expected loyalty from the person ultimately investigating their child. I think it would fit quite nicely.

 

The only way I see Trump in an innocent light (not actually innocent though) in all of this is if he is such a massive idiot he didn't realise that pressuring the FBI director would be illegal. Sadly that may very well be the case.

 

The fact that he was pressuring the FBI director to end the investigation is quite obvious to anyone who isn't intentionally trying to be obtuse.

I still go back to the right honorable James Comey and all his years of legal experience.  If he is so legally adept, and Trump is a bungling fool, why didn't Comey just tell his boss how to make the whole thing go away with a presidential pardon of Flynn.  As you said, Trump was Comey's boss at the time which means he is expected to give him the relevant advice, and since Trump was not a party to the Flynn investigation, a pardon would have been reasonable.  Instead, Comey paints himself as a low level functionary who was flummoxed with being in the same room as the President, and he just didn't know what to do.  Maybe Comey will come out and tell us that no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges for OoJ and Trump was just careless with his words.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[IAMX 3,055]

Constitutional lawyer educates outraged liberal MSNBC host:

 

 

[Dashinka 26,190]

Loved this piece about Comey.  Opinion of course, but certainly plausible.

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/comey_a_sixfoot_eightinch_pajama_boy.html

[IAMX 3,055]

16 hours ago, bcking said:

Saying "I hope YOU can let this go" (or approx that) is very different than "Gosh I hope in the end the investigation goes well and Flynn turns out okay".

 

Giving your passive comments on the investigation is different than speaking to someone directly and saying you "hope" (polite boss speak for "want") that YOU (single out person leading the investigation) can let it go.

Sorry I'll try to be more clear.

 

You commit the crime whether your attempt at obstructing is successful or not. It doesn't matter if Trump successfully obstructed the investigation. If he tried to, even if he tried in a very stupid way (which I agree he went about it poorly) he is still guilty. Focusing on whether the method he used was smart, or whether he was successful as a means of measuring his guilt is pointless. Neither matter.

?? (who argued this?) 

 

Hope is not obstruction. You have every right to incorrectly believe this is guilt of obstruction but there is no ambiguity in the courts.. it meets none of the criteria of obstruction. Comey's testimony effectively absolved Trump of every impeachable offense the left had been howling about. In fact the only crimes committed with regard to this testimony were from Democrats and Comey elected not to bother. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by IAMX

[CaliCat 3,957]

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Loved this piece about Comey.  Opinion of course, but certainly plausible.

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/comey_a_sixfoot_eightinch_pajama_boy.html

 

 

Everyone who claims Comey is lying needs to concede that he must have lied about Hillary as well. 

[Jacque67 7,328]

38 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

 

Everyone who claims Comey is lying needs to concede that he must have lied about Hillary as well. 

Logic doesn't work with trumspters. The sexualisation of Comey is interesting...

trump candicacy wasn't about politics but revenge.

to quote Tom Nichols it was a "demagogic stoking of incoherent paranoid rage."

 

Sessions to testify in public hearing b4 senate Intel committee tomorrow-can't tell the truth but very adept at lying.

popcorn

[JimandChristy 1,689]

LOL Trump just said the AHCA is the greatest bill in the world on health care.

 

He's bigging up his "achievements", pure propaganda drivel and then accusing the Democrats of being obstructionists. Did he see what his own party were doing over the past eight years? Record Filibusters, trying to make Obama a one term president, obsessing over Benghazi instead of making people lives better

[CaliCat 3,957]

8 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

LOL Trump just said the AHCA is the greatest bill in the world on health care.

 

He's bigging up his "achievements", pure propaganda drivel and then accusing the Democrats of being obstructionists. Did he see what his own party were doing over the past eight years? Record Filibusters, trying to make Obama a one term president, obsessing over Benghazi instead of making people lives better