N400 - Current Spouses Ex-Spouses

[VicMon 1]

I have my entire N-400 filled out, and I am blocked on Part 10, Question 8.  I have been on hold for hours with USICS and when I finally talk to someone, no one can give me an answer other than "I can't help you with that."  The question is in regard to information about my current spouse's previous spouses.  My current husband (a U.S. Citizen)  has been married four times before me.  When I married him I knew that he had been married twice before, and I know this is going to cast him in a really bad light, but he had actually forgotten the NAMES of two of his past spouses, he certainly doesn't remember any dates! (I'm very grateful he has changed completely!!).  

 

I have been a Permanent Resident for 16 years and I have been married to my current husband for over six years.

 

 I have been doling out money trying to do background checks to find out the dates of birth of his past spouses, the dates of their marriages and the dates of their divorces.  I keep hitting road blocks at every turn.  Does anyone have any advice on how to find this information?? 

 

Like I said, I have tried on-line background sites, including ancestry.com, but none of them give dates.  If the counties where the marriages took place do not have their vital records on line, those dates will not show up on a regular on-line background search site.  I am at my wits end!  I don't want to be denied citizenship because I can't find a couple of dates!!

 

Would an immigration lawyer have the clearance to find these dates? A private detective? Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do??

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

V.

Edited April 19, 2017 by VicMon

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

  If he remembers the state on online records search for him in the state may be all you need. 

[neilsqueen 433]

How about divorce decrees from the previous marriages?  Can he petition the courts for a copy if he doesn't have them on hand?  I think they probably have the dates he entered into the marriages.  Sorry you have to jump through all these hoops.  Such a pain I'm sure!

[andy78 178]

How did he get divorced? Was is through the court? Has he tried requesting court records from the courts that issued the divorce decrees?

 

If it's impossible to get divorce decrees or the information requested (names, dates of birth, etc.), what I would personally do is submit the form with as much information as possible. For example, I would put the marriage and divorce year instead of the full date. If I don't know the year or someone's name, I would put "Unknown". I would also include a letter explaining the situation.

 

I don't know if this will work, but this is what I would personally do in a situation like this.

[charmander 692]

You are looking for a lot of information. You certainly need the wedding certificate to retrieve the ex-spouse's DOB/POB/Citizenship, then also the divorce decree to retrieve the divorce dates. Then you need these for four different people. I'd recommend gathering as much information as possible, not just from your husband, but also his relatives and/or best friends. If he doesn't remember, someone who attended the wedding might. then for each ex-spouse contact the related towns for marriage/divorce records. Unfortunately if these were from years before they switched to digital records, it might literally take months to hear anything back.

 

I tried to use the advanced search function to see if anyone else was in similar situation but most cases involve not remembering the date of births and such. Once case mention he got RFE'd for that but that was his own ex-spouse. Little different than yours. Here's the link to that post from 2009, unfortunately one of those thread where they started but never came back to share what happened in the end.

 

Also it may be worth consulting to an immigration about applying with what is available. After all it looks like you've been an LPR for a long while and you are not applying based on your marriage to your US citizen spouse. It is not your fault that he does not remember these information especially if they took place long time ago, maybe you could get away with the information available but I'd definitely seek some professional opinion before sending the application. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by charmander

[VicMon 1]

Thank you for all of your answers. Some have been helpful, but unfortunately I have tried almost all of the things suggested.  I am terrified to submit a form with anything missing, but maybe including a letter explaining why some answers are "unknown" and that I can't find the information might help.  Maybe I will get my husband to submit a letter with the application as well.  I am going to continue to try and get some more information before submitting.  I just thought asking here might unearth something I hadn't tried.

 

[VicMon 1]

1 hour ago, neilsqueen said:

How about divorce decrees from the previous marriages?  Can he petition the courts for a copy if he doesn't have them on hand?  I think they probably have the dates he entered into the marriages.  Sorry you have to jump through all these hoops.  Such a pain I'm sure!

Unfortunately he doesn't have any of the paperwork for two of the marriages.  Like I said, he didn't even remember them until I unearthed them in a background check!  Yes, it is definitely a pain, but I'm plowing on!

 

[VicMon 1]

1 hour ago, andy78 said:

How did he get divorced? Was is through the court? Has he tried requesting court records from the courts that issued the divorce decrees?

 

If it's impossible to get divorce decrees or the information requested (names, dates of birth, etc.), what I would personally do is submit the form with as much information as possible. For example, I would put the marriage and divorce year instead of the full date. If I don't know the year or someone's name, I would put "Unknown". I would also include a letter explaining the situation.

 

I don't know if this will work, but this is what I would personally do in a situation like this.

I have definitely considered this.  I just can't get a straight answer out of anyone regarding whether or not leaving something "unknown" will result in denial of my application.

 

[Villanelle 4,121]

This is a really odd situation. I know you went through USCIS a long time ago- when it was called INS- some things change (like the name) but the core processes are still the same.

 

So my first question is - how did you become a permanent resident? Was it through marriage? Because if it was then the info about his previous spouses would have had to be listed back then. If its a case of he listed them back then but now no longer has the info- you will be FINE in listing 'unknown'. USCIS will have the info already in their records. You will be questioned though on why you listed them as 'unknown'. Especially if your obtaining of PR status was through marriage. It should be acceptable to say youve both forgotten after all these years- but honestly no one can give you 100% certainty that they will be satisfied with your answer of "we forgot" and may let it be or may delve into other questions about your marriage and obtaining of the GC as it could have been fraud.

 

If the ex-spouses werent listed on the previous immigration documents- well, you have a bigger problem. By listing them now you are admitting you hadnt disclosed info on your previous applications. This is something you should discuss with a lawyer. Its often recommended (on VJ) that if you have previously 'gotten one over' on USCIS/INS then its safer to not 'rock the boat' by filing additional petitions and to just let sleeping dogs lie. Or at the very least, to not shake the hornets nest with out consulting a lawyer.

 

So long story short- putting 'unknown' is acceptable and allowed on USCIS forms if you truly do not have the info. The issue is going to be how the Officer reviewing your application deals with it- and that we can not tell you. If you have a valid reason (long time ago) and they were disclosed previously and you havent committed any immigration fraud- you should be fine. Youll be able to answer all questions and have nothing to hide. 

 

If didnt get the GC through marriage and have never filled out any paperwork with USCIS in regards to previous spouses of your current spouse (because it wasnt needed not because you omitted it) then you shouldnt have the issue of potential fraud and the Officer most likely will accept it being 'unknown'. 

 

Also if you submit the application and they have an issue at the interview, you wont be denied and case closed. You will get similar to an RFE a certain amount of time to present the info that they are looking for. So you can send it in unknown and keep looking just in case you need it. You wont be having an interview for quite some time, so youll have a while to perhaps find the info.

[VicMon 1]

1 hour ago, Damara said:

This is a really odd situation. I know you went through USCIS a long time ago- when it was called INS- some things change (like the name) but the core processes are still the same.

 

So my first question is - how did you become a permanent resident? Was it through marriage? Because if it was then the info about his previous spouses would have had to be listed back then. If its a case of he listed them back then but now no longer has the info- you will be FINE in listing 'unknown'. USCIS will have the info already in their records. You will be questioned though on why you listed them as 'unknown'. Especially if your obtaining of PR status was through marriage. It should be acceptable to say youve both forgotten after all these years- but honestly no one can give you 100% certainty that they will be satisfied with your answer of "we forgot" and may let it be or may delve into other questions about your marriage and obtaining of the GC as it could have been fraud.

 

If the ex-spouses werent listed on the previous immigration documents- well, you have a bigger problem. By listing them now you are admitting you hadnt disclosed info on your previous applications. This is something you should discuss with a lawyer. Its often recommended (on VJ) that if you have previously 'gotten one over' on USCIS/INS then its safer to not 'rock the boat' by filing additional petitions and to just let sleeping dogs lie. Or at the very least, to not shake the hornets nest with out consulting a lawyer.

 

So long story short- putting 'unknown' is acceptable and allowed on USCIS forms if you truly do not have the info. The issue is going to be how the Officer reviewing your application deals with it- and that we can not tell you. If you have a valid reason (long time ago) and they were disclosed previously and you havent committed any immigration fraud- you should be fine. Youll be able to answer all questions and have nothing to hide. 

 

If didnt get the GC through marriage and have never filled out any paperwork with USCIS in regards to previous spouses of your current spouse (because it wasnt needed not because you omitted it) then you shouldnt have the issue of potential fraud and the Officer most likely will accept it being 'unknown'. 

 

Also if you submit the application and they have an issue at the interview, you wont be denied and case closed. You will get similar to an RFE a certain amount of time to present the info that they are looking for. So you can send it in unknown and keep looking just in case you need it. You wont be having an interview for quite some time, so youll have a while to perhaps find the info.

I got my PR when I was married to my ex-husband who is also Canadian. My ex, my son and I all became LPRs at the same time. (My son has since obtained his US citizenship). I did not even know my current husband when I became an LPR.  I have been an LPR for 16 years and married to my current husband for 6 years. The USICS will not have any info on my current husband except for our marriage certificate that I submitted when I changed my last name on my Green card. I don't think fraud is an issue.

[Villanelle 4,121]

47 minutes ago, VicMon said:

I got my PR when I was married to my ex-husband who is also Canadian. My ex, my son and I all became LPRs at the same time. (My son has since obtained his US citizenship). I did not even know my current husband when I became an LPR.  I have been an LPR for 16 years and married to my current husband for 6 years. The USICS will not have any info on my current husband except for our marriage certificate that I submitted when I changed my last name on my Green card. I don't think fraud is an issue.

Then theres no issue anywhere  

 

Honestly, just put down "unknown" and stop looking. USCIS is not going to care if you can not list out your current husbands past marital history.  He is a USC and you are not and have never received any immigration benefit from him. Do you know if his previous spouses had gotten any immigration benefits from him. I can understand forgetting dates- even a name I could understand when its been decades. Maybe something you did when you were a lot younger and stupider... But you would have to remember if they were immigrants or if you were involved with USCIS/INS with them. Thats not something you should forget!

 

If hes never been involved with USCIS/INS then its even more likely they wont care about his past info. Mainly they use those questions to make a database that they can cross reference. They look for fraud patterns. He would be of no use. If he has been involved with USCIS or INS back then- they will have his info already in the database and can use it to find out the previous spouses info. But again they wont really have interest in finding this or if they do look it wont impact anything because of the sheer amount of time its been between cases. No chance hes running a marriage for benefits ring! (If he is- hes doing it wrong lol!)

 

You should focus on the civics test. I read somewhere that a shocking percentage of USCs couldnt (or didnt?) pass it. Some of the questions can be tricky. Some is just memorization.

[VicMon 1]

12 minutes ago, Damara said:

Then theres no issue anywhere  

 

Honestly, just put down "unknown" and stop looking. USCIS is not going to care if you can not list out your current husbands past marital history.  He is a USC and you are not and have never received any immigration benefit from him. Do you know if his previous spouses had gotten any immigration benefits from him. I can understand forgetting dates- even a name I could understand when its been decades. Maybe something you did when you were a lot younger and stupider... But you would have to remember if they were immigrants or if you were involved with USCIS/INS with them. Thats not something you should forget!

 

If hes never been involved with USCIS/INS then its even more likely they wont care about his past info. Mainly they use those questions to make a database that they can cross reference. They look for fraud patterns. He would be of no use. If he has been involved with USCIS or INS back then- they will have his info already in the database and can use it to find out the previous spouses info. But again they wont really have interest in finding this or if they do look it wont impact anything because of the sheer amount of time its been between cases. No chance hes running a marriage for benefits ring! (If he is- hes doing it wrong lol!)

 

You should focus on the civics test. I read somewhere that a shocking percentage of USCs couldnt (or didnt?) pass it. Some of the questions can be tricky. Some is just memorization.

This actually gives me some relief. He knows for sure that all of his past spouses were USCs  and there was nothing  to do with immigration in those marriages. Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts on this.

[debz 0]

I had something like this problem when we filed for my cr1 years ago. He had forgotten the dates of his previous marriages although he did know their names. He did an affidavit through an immigration lawyer stating all the facts he could remember and signed it then we submitted it with everything else. It was not a problem.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

I am kind of surprised this info isn't available through a detailed records search, maybe something you'd need to pay for.  I was able to get a 30 year old long form marriage application/certificate dug out of the NYC archives a few years ago with just my mother's name without any issue (besides the months it took to get).   Divorce records should be similarly held.

[Faith38 37]

Hi , I would try vital check that's how I got my husband birth certificate years ago.