Trump says French and Germans could face 'extreme vetting' before entering US

[OriZ 3,157]

Most people can't drive for XXXX and that's a problem in and of itself lol.

As far as getting here, I could say at least with us/me...I don't think the process has been incredibly hard. I also don't think it was easy at all. So I would venture to say it was probably just about right. I just don't understand why they need my marriage certificate again for the interview coming up, like how did I end up here in the first place? lol

[yuna628 9,547]

I believe you just made my point for me. Waiting isnt the same as vetting. All applicants ahould be vetted just as i was when i received my security clearance imo. They talked to my family members, classmates, neighbors, former employers and coworkers amongst others. So with that said do you really think your husband was vetted? I think not.

You need to go back and read my post. I didnt ask what you gave up. I asked what are you willing to give up im order to allow everyone to immigrate here unchecked beyond what they are doing now. Are you saying you would voluntarily allow your family to be slaughtered by the next radical islamist that just wants his fair share of virgins? Are you really saying that? Like you said yourself, you gave up nothing. Imagine giving up everything as many already have.

It would appear you are incorrect. This entire thread is about a politician talking about the very thing you said they arent talking about. Hes talking about cracking down on immigration from countries that arent cracking down on their own immigration. Makes sense to me. Remove them from the visa waiver program until they can get their stuff together. Im all for it.

Ah yes another (im assuming) liberal that thinks they know about gun laws. This is my backyard and its fun to play in. Im a lifetime nra member and an executive in the firearms industry. Lets play. How many guns have you purchased? What process did you go through to purchase it? If you havent then on what experience are you basing this on? Again you make my points for me. You dont like the current background checks unless it benefits you. Ok for immigration purposes but not for gun purchases. After all its only easy for some but not for others so the system must be good enough....your words.

Men far greater than me, you (no offense), and your husband.....and just about anyone you ever have or ever will meat made sure that firearms will forever be allowed to be owned by american citizens. Not because they wanted us to shoot targets and hunt but so that we have the power to protect ourselves...yes even you....from our own government when that governement no longer represents us. No other object is made mention anywhere in the constitution in that regard. Do you think it was important to them? Did they mention anything about immigration at all? For that purpose alone i will say one has no bearing on the other. In fact i would say that comparing the two not only hurts hurts your argument but rather solidifies my own.

And lastly i will point out that dui deaths each year is higher than firearm homicides. Vehicular deaths overall are higher annually than firearm related deaths. We havent done a single thing other than prohibition and raising the drinking age to curb dui deaths and absolutely nothing to curb vehicular deaths. How many of those cars were purchased legally? How much of the booze was purchased legally? None of which is a constitutional right.

Bad people do bad things and ususally to good people. Why in the world would you oppose keeping the bad people away from your loved ones?

Btw. Good debate. Im enjoying your insight. You make me think and thats always a good thing. ?

Okay so you want everyone to go through the type of government security clearance that are typically reserved for those working in higher level, top secret, or trusted clearance levels, or those stuck in AP for years. You do understand what that would essentially do to our immigration system right? And the reason why it has never been done that way, right? Nevertheless, I'm confident that the government can see more than you believe about the immigrants and their USC spouses that apply for them.

Also, there is a lot of assuming going on here. Never did I say to allow everyone or anyone to immigrate here unchecked beyond what they are doing now. Not everyone makes the cut in the system as they do now. Could it be strengthened? Sure, suppose so. But not what Trump is suggesting and certainly not what you're suggesting.

I come from a long line of those involved in military and government service, since the revolutionary period. My grandfather was there liberating those in Nazi death camps. His experiences in war, his experiences with guns and taking lives, with what hatred had done to a civilization had a profound impact on my life. Because of the things he relayed to me, I realized that all life is precious, and xenophobia in the world is a cancer that is easily spread by fear. It's happening all over again. Men are capitalizing on this for their own aims and this country is not some special snowflake to be immune to it. And it's those reasons, which has nothing to do with my political philosophy, that shape my world-view on guns. I am surrounded by people with guns. I grew up around incessant gun violence, and I could also tell you some tales of my current residence of what 'law abiding' gun owners do with their weapons which put our lives in danger and has resulted in loss of life. Some of my best friends own guns. I know how to protect myself, but it will never be through using a gun. My uncle was there on 9/11, he saw what terrorists did to his friends and co-workers, but he also saw the aftermath as well. What liberties we were 'forced' or some of us willingly gave up in the name of fear or in the guise of security. The war we jumped into. I'm no liberal, though people on this forum are supremely fond of dropping labels at will. It's supposed to be insulting or something. You might say I'm more Libertarian and Constitutionalist in areas of the law regarding liberty, but a little more liberal on social issues. I believe in getting government out of our personal lives (of which so called Republicans love to butt into), reforming the government as it currently is instead of growing it and increasing spending on useless nonsense projects, using government to protect on social issues, ending discrimination of all forms, and a strong separation of church and state. You'd be surprised how I was educated and raised, so no.. I'm not a fire-breathing liberal commie that's a threat to your existence. ;-) I'm not trying to take your guns away. I don't believe the government is going to fail and take your guns away either or lock you up into camps. But I do believe that America has a problem, of shifting the blame away from when mass shootings happen and not acknowledging that the access we offer to firearms opens up a host of issues, including domestic terrorism (from both white and Muslim) and neo-nazism. We don't like to talk about it that often because, it's shadowy, and isn't out there right now. It doesn't look scary and different, but it's a real issue. I believe we have a security problem with our own citizens and it will get worse. You believe that the vetting to immigrants isn't enough, and I believe the vetting to gun owners isn't enough. Sorry that's a problem for you and it's understandable why you'd think it's a problem. You'll refer to the Constitution again I know, but then I'd counter-point and we'd get nowhere for this exercise of endless posting and go on for days like most other threads around these parts...

Do you suppose that people thought there was a problem with Muslims pre-war/pre-terror attack days? Do you think they were vetted worse or better then? Supposedly they are vetted better than ever now, and yet, Muslims immigrants are generally peaceful individuals to this country just as they were way back then with less security. Refugees have lost so much to these wars. They are being slaughtered, and for once I'd like for someone to step into their shoes for a moment. For the most part they are trying to find a safe haven, so that their families won't be murdered. Instead they are viewed with disrespect, xenophobia, and fear. And that's exactly what the bad guys want. They want you to view them with fear, and they want them to react to that fear as a recruitment tool.

The current immigration system needs reform, but no one wants to do that, and the future President will not do it either. I am not as trusting as some are of their elected leaders, who bray and cheer if so much Trump or Hillary sneeze right now. The future with either one, is bleak. I refuse to vote for a con-artist in bed with worse ilk that will do damage to this country and the world, and I refuse to vote for someone I have severe unanswered concerns about. You think that's what he's really talking about, because no one wants to talk about what it is he's really meaning. They either don't care or don't understand the larger goal, which is something I won't go into for this thread. I refuse to stop living for fear of bad people. I refuse to hand over more liberty for the fear of safety. When you have enough bad things happen to you, you come to realize, no matter what, bad things are never truly stopped. Stop them in one area, and they will keep coming from another angle, until you are entirely isolated and defeated. That is no way to stop an enemy. And no, I'm not saying do nothing either. No immigrant or potential immigrant should be treated like a criminal. The VWP has a problem yes, but so does the general visit visa system too.

Thanks for thinking, though I disagree I like your reasoned response.

[yuna628 9,547]

Most people can't drive for XXXX and that's a problem in and of itself lol.

As far as getting here, I could say at least with us/me...I don't think the process has been incredibly hard. I also don't think it was easy at all. So I would venture to say it was probably just about right. I just don't understand why they need my marriage certificate again for the interview coming up, like how did I end up here in the first place? lol

You're telling me. Lately my husband is about ready to have a heart attack driving, every time someone in their big truck keeps humping his bumper in thinking we're going to get hit again. Seriously, we've seen people just start driving into oncoming and we've had to swerve into ditches to avoid them! The big thing on the main road out of here though is roll-overs. Last month there were about 8 rollovers, all at the same spot that ended up on the neighbour's front lawn (two years ago we had some guy go right through the sheriff's house!). The solution? Radar enforcement? Speed bumps? No.. A few lines of rumble strips, that have already started peeling up from the roadway.

I also don't think this process was hard, but like you I also don't think it was easy either. But none of it has to do with the vetting process... and I think for now, the vetting process has been very successful for the K1 and spousal program, with the exception of the SB attackers (CSC's big looming screwup). If anything I believe they have already become more rigorous to correct issues with background checks. No doubt when we reach ROC, we will both be nervous wrecks, and I'll be grumpy about more government intrusion.. albeit necessary.. I guess. How many times do they really need to see documents we've already given them? It's the inefficient and redundancy that gets me.

[OriZ 3,157]

You're telling me. Lately my husband is about ready to have a heart attack driving, every time someone in their big truck keeps humping his bumper in thinking we're going to get hit again. Seriously, we've seen people just start driving into oncoming and we've had to swerve into ditches to avoid them! The big thing on the main road out of here though is roll-overs. Last month there were about 8 rollovers, all at the same spot that ended up on the neighbour's front lawn (two years ago we had some guy go right through the sheriff's house!). The solution? Radar enforcement? Speed bumps? No.. A few lines of rumble strips, that have already started peeling up from the roadway.

I also don't think this process was hard, but like you I also don't think it was easy either. But none of it has to do with the vetting process... and I think for now, the vetting process has been very successful for the K1 and spousal program, with the exception of the SB attackers (CSC's big looming screwup). If anything I believe they have already become more rigorous to correct issues with background checks. No doubt when we reach ROC, we will both be nervous wrecks, and I'll be grumpy about more government intrusion.. albeit necessary.. I guess. How many times do they really need to see documents we've already given them? It's the inefficient and redundancy that gets me.

Yup, definitely prepare to have to show them everything all over again. I filed N-400 in May, and already have an interview coming up Aug 17. But I've had to mail them, yet again(after doing it 3+ years ago), and have to bring originals to the interview, of the marriage certificate, the wife's prior divorce papers, her birth certificate, yadda yadda...it's as if we never did anything to start with. Good thing we've saved it all, knowing how inefficient and square the system is.

What is with that road that there are so many roll overs? Is it just speed? In general I'm not a proponent of radars. I think they need to pay more attention to people's disastrous driving habits(such as just driving into oncoming and I can add a few other things to that), sure speed might make accidents more lethal, but the vast majority of aggressive drivers or those that speed are usually not the ones doing the other ridiculous things that cause accidents.

[yuna628 9,547]

Yup, definitely prepare to have to show them everything all over again. I filed N-400 in May, and already have an interview coming up Aug 17. But I've had to mail them, yet again(after doing it 3+ years ago), and have to bring originals to the interview, of the marriage certificate, the wife's prior divorce papers, her birth certificate, yadda yadda...it's as if we never did anything to start with. Good thing we've saved it all, knowing how inefficient and square the system is.

What is with that road that there are so many roll overs? Is it just speed? In general I'm not a proponent of radars. I think they need to pay more attention to people's disastrous driving habits(such as just driving into oncoming and I can add a few other things to that), sure speed might make accidents more lethal, but the vast majority of aggressive drivers or those that speed are usually not the ones doing the other ridiculous things that cause accidents.

It's a very long road country road, with a double yellow. Heavy woods and big ditches. There's even a couple places with crosses mounted for people that have died. Posted limit is 40 with a notice to drop the speed to 35 on a curve, and at the end of the curve is a line of houses, and that's where they roll. One guy has abandoned his house, because it made him so unsafe. He couldn't even sell the thing. Husband's paranoid about doing the speed limit no matter what, and they will ride his backside for it. There are also sometimes cyclists. One time there was this woman cycling in the one lane, and we're in the other, this box truck comes flying around the corner, drives into our oncoming lane, sideswipes the cyclist and she goes flying into the ditch. We swerve into the corn-field to avoid contact, and the truck blares his horn and keeps on going... They'll get annoyed at going the speed limit and blow over the yellow line past you, or they will swerve into oncoming.. it's ridiculous. Mostly I've honestly no clue why they do it, sometimes they seem to be on the phone.. and other times??? The police shut the road down for a single day to do a ''study'', the rumble strips was apparently the best they could come up with.

[OriZ 3,157]

It's a very long road country road, with a double yellow. Heavy woods and big ditches. There's even a couple places with crosses mounted for people that have died. Posted limit is 40 with a notice to drop the speed to 35 on a curve, and at the end of the curve is a line of houses, and that's where they roll. One guy has abandoned his house, because it made him so unsafe. He couldn't even sell the thing. Husband's paranoid about doing the speed limit no matter what, and they will ride his backside for it. There are also sometimes cyclists. One time there was this woman cycling in the one lane, and we're in the other, this box truck comes flying around the corner, drives into our oncoming lane, sideswipes the cyclist and she goes flying into the ditch. We swerve into the corn-field to avoid contact, and the truck blares his horn and keeps on going... They'll get annoyed at going the speed limit and blow over the yellow line past you, or they will swerve into oncoming.. it's ridiculous. Mostly I've honestly no clue why they do it, sometimes they seem to be on the phone.. and other times??? The police shut the road down for a single day to do a ''study'', the rumble strips was apparently the best they could come up with.

Wow, what a nightmare. lol that doesn't sound like something rumble strips can stop. Good thing you guys don't get a whole lotta snow over there lol. What they probably should do instead of closing the road, is have a cruiser sit there somewhere(if there is a spot it can do that) and pull over all the reckless drivers for a while, and at the same time learn what else should be done to permanently stop that crazy situation.

We have plenty of country roads with woods and ditches here(and even the freeway doesn't get lit) but I can't say I've encountered that. We get a rollover here n there, especially in winter time...and the winooski river bridge is notorious for making morning commute times insanely long due to accidents, but that's about it.

Edited July 25, 2016 by OriZ

[Rob L 3,811]

Again, the perceived ease of it, has nothing to do with how well your spouse will be vetted or how well anyone else's spouse is vetted compared to yours from any other country. Your process will be easier and faster than even our process went, and vetting will have nothing to do with that. Imagine the number of applications from the Philippines that just flew right on by, got their visa within a few months and already married (there was one that was approved within days), while tons of others from the ''easy'' countries just sat still endlessly waiting.

I gave up nothing for ease of processing except for many sleepless nights without my loved one, time, money, and a great deal of other things. So does everyone. But none of it has to do with being vetted. To give my life for my husband? What wife wouldn't give her life for her husband, if she loved them, just as my husband would (and has given up a great amount of things in his life to come to America). 15 minutes or so is all an officer roughly gets at the USCIS to trudge through your paperwork (and that's after the 'vetting'). Would it be nice if they had longer? Of course, but it still has nothing to do with vetting. The vetting will keep happening on a continual basis until completion.

There are many things that need to be fixed with all aspects of immigration, but none of these aspects are being talked about by politicians. It's sound bytes to get likes and votes. Nothing more. When he talks about French and Germans let's be honest.. we know exactly the who in these countries he's talking about. It's easy to see through doublespeak pandering. He's not just talking about Muslims in Muslim countries, or refugees going to other countries, he's talking about anyone that's ethnically Muslim of any country, whether they be natural born or otherwise. So what vetting would be suggested to be done than what is already done already? He's not talking about vetting, he's talking about a de facto ban and trying to spin it pretty. That's not going to stop violence within our country already by it's own citizens or our interestingly enough, homegrown terrorist groups.

Strange enough though, how is it your philosophy on immigrants isn't applied to guns though? After a supposed 'thorough background check and vetting' with numerous laws and supposed restrictions, one could obtain a whole stash of weapons so long as they had enough time and money. But yet, year after year, so many are murdered at the hands of both legal and illegally obtained guns. The majority of our mass shooters were all legally obtained and passed the 'thorough background vetting'. But we as Americans, are supposed to shrug and sigh and say that's okay, so long as majority are the good owners, the bad apples getting through is just what happens.. oh well.

You are a wise and intelligent woman. I think we both know this crowd is hopeless.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Wow, what a nightmare. lol that doesn't sound like something rumble strips can stop. Good thing you guys don't get a whole lotta snow over there lol. What they probably should do instead of closing the road, is have a cruiser sit there somewhere(if there is a spot it can do that) and pull over all the reckless drivers for a while, and at the same time learn what else should be done to permanently stop that crazy situation.

We have plenty of country roads with woods and ditches here(and even the freeway doesn't get lit) but I can't say I've encountered that. We get a rollover here n there, especially in winter time...and the winooski river bridge is notorious for making morning commute times insanely long due to accidents, but that's about it.

All this talk of roads and ditches has me giddy

Wow, what a nightmare. lol that doesn't sound like something rumble strips can stop. Good thing you guys don't get a whole lotta snow over there lol. What they probably should do instead of closing the road, is have a cruiser sit there somewhere(if there is a spot it can do that) and pull over all the reckless drivers for a while, and at the same time learn what else should be done to permanently stop that crazy situation.

We have plenty of country roads with woods and ditches here(and even the freeway doesn't get lit) but I can't say I've encountered that. We get a rollover here n there, especially in winter time...and the winooski river bridge is notorious for making morning commute times insanely long due to accidents, but that's about it.

All this talk of roads and ditches has me giddy

[denali1022 26]

You are a wise and intelligent woman. I think we both know this crowd is hopeless.

Yes we just dont get it. Thank god.

[TBoneTX 43,427]

have a cruiser sit there somewhere

All police cruisers assigned to traffic duty should be marked, be painted in glow-in-the-dark tie-dye colors, have flashing neon signs that say "Police," have 4-foot-diameter/6-foot-high pink pinwheels attached to each quarterpanel, and have all tyres (British spelling) inflated to a maximum of 10 psi. Any tickets written should be exclusively issued to drivers who travel at or below the speed limit in the left lane (= for impeding traffic). This goes for city police, state troopers, highway patrolmen, constables, and sheriffs' departments.

[denali1022 26]

You are a wise and intelligent woman. I think we both know this crowd is hopeless.

.....and imagine this happened as we were discussing this very subject. You points are well taken. SMH

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/24/world/ansbach-germany-blast/index.html

[OriZ 3,157]

All police cruisers assigned to traffic duty should be marked, be painted in glow-in-the-dark tie-dye colors, have flashing neon signs that say "Police," have 4-foot-diameter/6-foot-high pink pinwheels attached to each quarterpanel, and have all tyres (British spelling) inflated to a maximum of 10 psi. Any tickets written should be exclusively issued to drivers who travel at or below the speed limit in the left lane (= for impeding traffic). This goes for city police, state troopers, highway patrolmen, constables, and sheriffs' departments.

I'm game!