what is the difference between a US national and US citizen

[Ridcully41 1]

hi there

I was just wondering what the difference is? recently I started a new job here in Indianapolis and got talking to a co worker we talked about my immigration to the US and the election in the UK amongst other things. He mentioned he has a US passport but can't vote. I thought that was strange and asked him why, he said he was a US national not a citizen,i have not come across this before and i'm curious as to what the diference is.

if I have posted this in the wrong area please feel free to move it

many thanks

[Boiler 43,433]

From memory they are from small islands in the Pacific the name of which I forget.

[KASH2011 382]

Here you go;

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Immigration-Terms-and-Definitions-Involving-Aliens

Edited May 11, 2015 by KASH2011

[Ridcully41 1]

Here you go;

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Immigration-Terms-and-Definitions-Involving-Aliens

Thanks for clearing that up,he said something about being born in Mariana Islands,just one more question what would he have to do to become a citizen or is that not allowed?

[JimmyHou 610]

Thanks for clearing that up,he said something about being born in Mariana Islands,just one more question what would he have to do to become a citizen or is that not allowed?

The above information is all correct; I'll just add that all US Citizens are US Nationals, but not all US Nationals are US Citizens.

A US National who wants to become a US Citizen is subject to the same natiralization requirements as a Permanent Resident.

Edited May 12, 2015 by JimmyHou

[Ridcully41 1]

thank you for your answers like I said I had never come across this before,would I be right in assuming the constitution applies to them and also they can not be deported of US soil? I know its another question but this really is my last one (I think lol)

[JimmyHou 610]

thank you for your answers like I said I had never come across this before,would I be right in assuming the constitution applies to them and also they can not be deported of US soil? I know its another question but this really is my last one (I think lol)

I don't think they can be deported because where would you deport them to? They are Americans.

Naturalizes citizens can be denaturalized and deported but you can't do that with an American born national or citizen.

The constitution applies to everyone in the United States including visitors on a B1 visa or undocumented immigrants.

But the constitution reserves certain rights for citizens. Nationals for example can't vote.

[olna83 20]

I don't think they can be deported because where would you deport them to? They are Americans.

Naturalizes citizens can be denaturalized and deported but you can't do that with an American born national or citizen.

The constitution applies to everyone in the United States including visitors on a B1 visa or undocumented immigrants.

But the constitution reserves certain rights for citizens. Nationals for example can't vote.

JimmyHou,

If I missed the point, in what cases can they de-naturalize and deport naturalized citizens?

Just curious.

Thank you.

[kamw 93]

Wait we can be de-naturalize? I never knew that. I thought after two years you could no longer be deported.

[JimmyHou 610]

JimmyHou,

If I missed the point, in what cases can they de-naturalize and deport naturalized citizens?

Just curious.

Thank you.

Here you go... this is from the link on this post (that whole thread is worth reading by the way)

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/531322-what-to-expect-at-the-naturalization-oath-ceremony/?p=7425377

Reasons for Denaturalization

There are several main reasons for denaturalization.

Reason: You were not eligible to be naturalized and you lied to USCIS or hid the information about the ineligibility.

Examples: (1) You were convicted of an aggravated felony ten years before you became a citizen and lied about it on the N-400. You were not eligible for citizenship. (2) You were convicted of a minor, nonaggravated felony three years before you became a citizen and lied about it on the N-400. You were not eligible for citizenship at that time. You needed to re-establish good moral character. (3) You were out of the country for three years within the last five years before you became a citizen and you lied about the absence on your N-400. You did not meet the residency requirement.

Reason: You would have met the requirements for naturalization if you were truthful, but you lied to USCIS.

Example: You were arrested on a minor criminal charge that was dismissed for lack of evidence. You would have qualified for naturalization, but you lied on the N-400 about the arrest. You did not meet the good moral character requirement because you lied.

Reason: You became a citizen even though you knew you were breaking the law.

Example: You acquired your green card through fraud and used it to apply for citizenship.

Reason: You became a member of a communist or subversive organization within five years of becoming a citizen.

Example: You joined the United States Communist Party three years after becoming naturalized.

Reason: You were convicted of contempt for refusing to testify before a Congressional committee about your anti-government activities. (Only within the first ten years after naturalizing.)

Example: You would not testify about your role in the kidnapping of a government official.

Wait we can be de-naturalize? I never knew that. I thought after two years you could no longer be deported.

Yep, you can be de-naturalized for certain very limited reasons.

Case A - If you lied in order to get your green card or your citizenship, then you can be de-naturalized at any point in time.

Case B - For certain other offences, you can only be de-naturalized if you commit the offence within a certain amount of time of becoming a citizen (2 years or 10 years for example).

Note that for Case B, de-naturalization is not retroactive; subsequent successful immigrations depending on yours should not be affected. For example, if you became a citizen and then sponsored your mother and she got her citizenship, but you were then de-naturalized for committing a serious offence, she would still be a citizen. However, for Case A, your mother would lose her citizenship because if you lied to get your citizenship, then the de-naturalization is retroactive; meaning that you were never a citizen; meaning that you could not have sponsored your mother.

[olna83 20]

Here you go... this is from the link on this post (that whole thread is worth reading by the way)

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/531322-what-to-expect-at-the-naturalization-oath-ceremony/?p=7425377

Reasons for Denaturalization

There are several main reasons for denaturalization.

Reason: You were not eligible to be naturalized and you lied to USCIS or hid the information about the ineligibility.

Examples: (1) You were convicted of an aggravated felony ten years before you became a citizen and lied about it on the N-400. You were not eligible for citizenship. (2) You were convicted of a minor, nonaggravated felony three years before you became a citizen and lied about it on the N-400. You were not eligible for citizenship at that time. You needed to re-establish good moral character. (3) You were out of the country for three years within the last five years before you became a citizen and you lied about the absence on your N-400. You did not meet the residency requirement.

Reason: You would have met the requirements for naturalization if you were truthful, but you lied to USCIS.

Example: You were arrested on a minor criminal charge that was dismissed for lack of evidence. You would have qualified for naturalization, but you lied on the N-400 about the arrest. You did not meet the good moral character requirement because you lied.

Reason: You became a citizen even though you knew you were breaking the law.

Example: You acquired your green card through fraud and used it to apply for citizenship.

Reason: You became a member of a communist or subversive organization within five years of becoming a citizen.

Example: You joined the United States Communist Party three years after becoming naturalized.

Reason: You were convicted of contempt for refusing to testify before a Congressional committee about your anti-government activities. (Only within the first ten years after naturalizing.)

Example: You would not testify about your role in the kidnapping of a government official.

Yep, you can be de-naturalized for certain very limited reasons.

Case A - If you lied in order to get your green card or your citizenship, then you can be de-naturalized at any point in time.

Case B - For certain other offences, you can only be de-naturalized if you commit the offence within a certain amount of time of becoming a citizen (2 years or 10 years for example).

Note that for Case B, de-naturalization is not retroactive; subsequent successful immigrations depending on yours should not be affected. For example, if you became a citizen and then sponsored your mother and she got her citizenship, but you were then de-naturalized for committing a serious offence, she would still be a citizen. However, for Case A, your mother would lose her citizenship because if you lied to get your citizenship, then the de-naturalization is retroactive; meaning that you were never a citizen; meaning that you could not have sponsored your mother.

[olna83 20]

JimmyHou,

Thank you. As I see these are very extreme reasons. But it makes sense now.

[Romet 28]

I am a USC (born and raised) and this is one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on VJ.... I honestly didn't know a LOT of this information. Thanks everyone here that is contributing. Learn something new everyday!!

[JimmyHou 610]

I am a USC (born and raised) and this is one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on VJ.... I honestly didn't know a LOT of this information. Thanks everyone here that is contributing. Learn something new everyday!!

There's lots to learn; I love reading some of these posts.

Incidentally, I came across this 2007 article about a man who was placed into denaturalization proceedings in California. http://thesop.org/story/law/2007/11/13/irvine-man-to-be-stripped-of-citizenship-after-conviction-for-naturalization-fraud.php

It says that between 1999 and 2007, USCIS (and previously BCIS and previously INS) pursued 200 denaturalization cases... so the numbers are very low.

[kamw 93]

Dang, well there goes my career as a criminal mastermind.

This was a very interesting. I had previously heard about US nationals but never understood it. Thanks for teaching my something new today.