A Troubling Pattern

[Boiler 43,462]

I guess it is a bit like getting a drivers license, they make it so easy that it is pretty much impossible to fail. If they made it harder and had a higher pass mark would that be unfair to some, maybe.

Or look at the Education System, graduating High School is now a given pretty much. So having done so becomes meaningless.

There are of course consequences, like there are for VAWA.

[Ryan H 3,791]

~~~Closed for review.~~~

**Thread back open, several bickering, baiting, and off topic posts removed. If you cannot discuss the topic civilly, then do not post. Thread bans will follow for any poster who cannot be civil.**

Edited March 25, 2014 by Ryan H

[gabeRao 43]

The debate is not so much does abuse happen, it is the supposed abused spouse who immediately screams "How do I file VAWA." They are obviously aware it exist and they are more worried about how to protect their immigration rights than protecting themselves. Why even mention VAWA if you already have your green card since a VAWA filing is not needed to ROC. Because somewhere they have heard that VAWA is the magical way to remain in the US.

There is nothing magical about domestic abuse.

Believe it or not, CPRs also have constitutional rights - that don't come from individuals - they come from the constitution.

I am mortified by how many of you attribute all relationship problems to the newcomer.

I can name 10 different psychological disorders that manifest as problems in the marriage LATER on.

It takes 2 something years to figure out if you're mentally compatible anyway.

Sometimes it takes longer to figure out overarching problems that are "dormant" even to the person intimate with you.

VAWA is a tool to protect new immigrants and thank Joe Biden for that.

What do you mean "worried about how to protect their immigration rights than protecting themselves"

Those are two non-dependent unrelated facets of a newcomers life in America.

And guess what, everybody has a right to self-preservation.

Whether the OP or yourself treat these good people as human beings or not is fruitless and pointless.

They make mistakes and sometimes end up in a foreign country and find themselves mired in an inescapable and mindless puzzle.

If you have a problem with "lairs" gaming the system, go fight against DACA - a blatant political move to ensure Democratic victories that is unconstitutional and must be and will be thrown out just like Obamacare.

Edited March 27, 2014 by gabeRao

[gabeRao 43]

We often read about people who fly to the United States on k-1, live with the fiance/fiancee peacefully, get married, obtain a conditional green card, and suddenly claim abuse. Or fly on a k-1 visa, live with the fiance/fiancee without raising "abuse,", get married, ask on this forum about VAWA claiming abuse. Now, that is problematic. There are real issues of abuse, but reading from several people from, especially from one specific country who claim abuse right after receiving their green card, it rings a bell. The Philippines is quite on top of this thing. I hope I don't get flamed lol

Then prove it.

If you predicate your rational commentary on anecdotal evidence and similar nonsense from an internet forum, I have a beachhouse in Nebraska that I wanna sell you for real cheap.

Implicating a K-1 because of the fleeting nature of their presence in America is disappointing.

K-1s are non-immigrants until they prove their intent with their actions.

That takes time, effort ,money, blood, sweat and tears.

You know K-1s being human beings and what not

Just a little trivial detail.

[belinda63 2,981]

Perhaps I should have expressed the ones that raise questions in my eyes are the ones who are much more worried about how to protect their green cards than their lives. If you are being abused get help, but some of them are living in an abusive situation and rather than asking how can I escape this situation they are asking how can I get/keep my green card. If they already have their green card and are in an abusive situation then they leave the home or get protection. They don't need to worry about filing VAWA because they already have the green card but that seems to be what some of them are doing, yelling VAWA when it doesn't even apply to them anymore.

[gabeRao 43]

You know how Medical Doctors are able to eliminate certain diseases from a pool of others after listening to a patient? Symptoms; that's what they use to limit their concern to certain specific diseases. "Why is your first instinct to doubt people who say they've been abused?" When the claim of "abuse" happens right after obtaining conditional green card as in the pattern constantly on display here, then yes, it provokes some considerable doubts as to how authentic. And, by the way, you started minding my business by quoting from my post, and you feel justified to tell me to mind my own business? Start with the man in the mirror.

Authenticity verification is for law enforcement and immigration processing.

Do the man in the mirror bit before you question these things vigilante-style

[gabeRao 43]

Perhaps I should have expressed the ones that raise questions in my eyes are the ones who are much more worried about how to protect their green cards than their lives. If you are being abused get help, but some of them are living in an abusive situation and rather than asking how can I escape this situation they are asking how can I get/keep my green card. If they already have their green card and are in an abusive situation then they leave the home or get protection. They don't need to worry about filing VAWA because they already have the green card but that seems to be what some of them are doing, yelling VAWA when it doesn't even apply to them anymore.

Yes.

People do leave the home and they get protection.

Even men have to do that from time to time.

Like I said, VAWA is ONE aspect of attempting what is called the i-751 waiver.

Its about helping themselves and using the constitution to defend their existence.

Its something the constitution guarantees TO them.

One cannot rationally tell people that they dont need to "yell VAWA"

What is "yell VAWA" anyway ?

I have a sister who went through this a few years ago - this law is there to defend those who have no defense in a foreign land.

You are dehumanizing these individuals to sound populist.

Pretty low bar there right ?

[belinda63 2,981]

I think you misunderstand. We are not speaking of all VAWA just a select few who seem to be abusing the system. Every system suffers abuse. There are classes and websites that are for the purpose of teaching non-US persons how to scam a green card and VAWA is part of that "course".

No one here is saying VAWA should be abolished or that it is not a good thing. All that is being stated is that there are scammers out there. On member had his wife start a fight with him and when he didn't respond to her aggression she (I don't remember clearly) either self-inflicted wounds or had a friend injure her. She then filed charges against him and he spent some time (months) in jail. It was only due to the neighbors who witnessed the incident that the charges were dismissed. Is this a true VAWA case or a scam? What about the woman who has her visa and although her spouse already said he wants a divorce and for her not to come to the US she wants to come here anyway. She can file VAWA and get her 10 year card although she never lived with or near him. Or the people who leave as soon as the AOS is filed and when they find out the spouse withdrew the affidavit of support suddenly scream "VAWA" although there was no abuse until that point.

I am all for protection of abused persons. But I reiterate.....there are scammers.

[PantomimeGoose 59]

The congressional research service isn't clear on the incidence either, but even they acknowledge the potential for fraud.....

"USCIS prohibits approving VAWA petitions when the agency determines that a petitioner has committed marriage fraud. Yet, it is unclear the degree to which the USCIS’s Adjudicator’s Field Manual (AFM) and other regulations require an adjudicator to consult previous case files, although the AFM does recommend it. It also remains unclear how the VSC considers evidence of marriage fraud offered by an allegedly abusive spouse who may have been defrauded by the foreign national for purposes of violating immigration laws and who wishes to report such evidence. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA) prohibits denial of a VAWA petition based “solely” on evidence furnished by the abusive spouse or other household family member involved in the abuse"

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42477.pdf

So, basically, if you've been defrauded and then accused of abuse, you're not allowed to prove it.

Interesting reading.....

[Boiler 43,462]

Where is VAWA mentioned in the Constitution?

Edited March 27, 2014 by Boiler

[gabeRao 43]

The congressional research service isn't clear on the incidence either, but even they acknowledge the potential for fraud.....

"USCIS prohibits approving VAWA petitions when the agency determines that a petitioner has committed marriage fraud. Yet, it is unclear the degree to which the USCIS’s Adjudicator’s Field Manual (AFM) and other regulations require an adjudicator to consult previous case files, although the AFM does recommend it. It also remains unclear how the VSC considers evidence of marriage fraud offered by an allegedly abusive spouse who may have been defrauded by the foreign national for purposes of violating immigration laws and who wishes to report such evidence. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA) prohibits denial of a VAWA petition based “solely” on evidence furnished by the abusive spouse or other household family member involved in the abuse"

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42477.pdf

So, basically, if you've been defrauded and then accused of abuse, you're not allowed to prove it.

Interesting reading.....

if you are an "immediate relative" of an intending or conditional immigrant to the U.S. you are allowed to make affidavits to the agency disclosing any detail of fraud that he/she has committed.

A US Citizen may even confess to have committed to fraud themselves in conjunction with the alien ( with mostly perjury slapped on in the worst of the cases). In other words, the USC might be complicit and still get away with breaking US law.

Anything a USC says gets added onto the alien's file.

Their permanent file.

Edited March 28, 2014 by gabeRao

[Ryan H 3,791]

***One post removed and one member thread banned for failure to heed my earlier warning about being civil.***

[PantomimeGoose 59]

if you are an "immediate relative" of an intending or conditional immigrant to the U.S. you are allowed to make affidavits to the agency disclosing any detail of fraud that he/she has committed.

Yes, but per above quote, this would constitute "evidence furnished by the abusive spouse". The IIRIRA of 1996 "prohibits denial of a VAWA petition" based on such evidence. That is, as an accused abusive spouse, you can give them an affidavit of whatever you want, but they are not allowed to use it on its own to deny a VAWA claim.

You also said:

"Anything a USC says gets added onto the alien's file.

Their permanent file."

Again, per my previous quote.

"Yet, it is unclear the degree to which the USCIS’s Adjudicator’s Field Manual (AFM) and other regulations

require an adjudicator to consult previous case files, although the AFM does recommend it."

It would appear (and I'm a lay person here) that there are multiple case files for an individual: files for visas, adjustment etc., and a separate VAWA file. Even, if as you say, whatever a USC citizen says gets added to a "permanent file" (whatever you're imagining that to be), the adjudicator of a VAWA claim doesn't have to consult anything but the VAWA file. If the USC says in that file that the spouse committed fraud and is faking a VAWA claim, the adjudicator is prohibited from denying the VAWA claim on that evidence alone.

My understanding, from stories on here, is that the USC is generally not informed there is a VAWA claim against them, and that if they then report fraud, the report goes into a different file, or is largely ignored.

[bdawn 66]

"If you have a problem with "lairs" gaming the system, go fight against DACA - a blatant political move to ensure Democratic victories that is unconstitutional and must be and will be thrown out just like Obamacare. "

@gabeRao You often ask for statistics even when the first few lines of my post explain my assertion as an observatory trend on Visajourney. Did you source-out specific authoritative documentary evidence to support this claim? Or your assertion is not subject to the same level of statistical scrutiny for which you untiringly ‘chastise’ others?