Should the U.S. increase its H-1B visa program?

[peejay 327]

Should the U.S. increase its H-1B visa program?

CON: Wages belie claims of a labor shortage.

Norman Matloff

Once again, the tech industry is putting heavy pressure on Congress to expand the H-1B visa program. Though the industry says the foreign workers are needed to remedy a tech labor shortage, for most employers the attraction of H-1Bs visa holders is simply cheap labor. The H-1B visa program allows skilled immigrants to work in the United States on a temporary basis.

The program's scope is far more general than just the tech industry. For example, the San Francisco Unified School District has hired a number of H-1B visa-holding school psychologists, elementary school teachers and so on. But the most common field in which employers hire H-1B visa holders is software development. The visas granted in computer-related fields are 10 times more numerous than in the next most common tech field, electrical engineering.

The industry claims that it needs to import workers to remedy a severe labor shortage. Yet this flies in the face of the economic data.

A Business Week article has pointed out that starting salaries for new bachelor's degree graduates in computer science and electrical engineering, adjusted for inflation, have been flat or falling in recent years. This belies the industry's claim of a labor shortage. Additional analysis at the master's degree level shows the same trend, flat wages -- contradicting the industry's claim that workers at the postgraduate level are in especially short supply.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates is personally leading the industry's charge for more H-1B visas. Yet Microsoft asked its contract software developers earlier this year to take a seven-day furlough, to save money. And the firm admits that its salaries are not keeping up with inflation. Again, none of this squares with Microsoft's claims of a labor shortage.

The hidden agenda here is industry access to cheap labor. Several university studies and two congressionally commissioned reports have shown that H-1B visa holders are paid less than Americans. Though the law requires H-1B holders to be paid the "prevailing wage," the definition of that term is filled with numerous gaping loopholes, as a 2002 congressional report showed. Yet Congress added even further loopholes in legislation in 2004. Just think tax code, and you'll understand what I mean.

The H-1B program does not require most employers to give hiring priority to qualified U.S. citizens and permanent residents. If the employer is also sponsoring the foreign worker for a green card, there is such a requirement, but again loopholes render the rule meaningless. As prominent immigration attorney Joel Stewart has said, "Employers who favor aliens have an arsenal of legal means to reject all U.S. workers who apply."

The industry says the H-1B holders are needed to maintain its level of innovation. I, too, support facilitating the immigration of "the best and the brightest," but very few H-1B holders in the tech field are in that league. Government data show that the vast majority make, at most, in the $60,000 range (Intel's median is $65,000). Yet even non-techies know that the top talents in this field make more than $100,000. And the vast majority of awards for innovation in the field have gone to U.S.-born workers.

The industry lobbyists highlight some of the famous immigrant entrepreneurs in the industry, such as Jerry Yang and Sergey Brin, co-founders of Yahoo and Google. Yet neither of them immigrated to the United States as an H-1B visa holder; both came to the United States as minors with their parents. Thus they are irrelevant to the H-1B issue. The lobbyists also like to cite Andy Grove, an early Intel employee, yet he came to the United States as a refugee, not under employer sponsorship.

More important, none of these firms has been pivotal to the industry technologically. There are lots of good Web search programs. In fact, Yahoo bought the one it uses, rather than developing its own. Rest assured, we would all still be surfing the Web without Yahoo and Google. And we would have the hardware to do it too, without Intel; IBM could have chosen from many good chip vendors when it introduced the PC in 1981. Indeed, no one firm has been crucial to the tech industry in general.

Why, then, is Congress now poised to accede to the industry's demands on H-1B visa quotas? As the saying goes, "Follow the money." As Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, said after Congress enacted the H-1B program expansion in 2000, "There were, in fact, a whole lot of [members of Congress] against it, but because they are tapping the high-tech community for campaign contributions, they don't want to admit that in public." Meanwhile, a reasonable H-1B reform bill by New Jersey Rep. Bill Pascrell is being ignored, not only by the Republicans but also by his fellow Democrats.

You may have thought that November's election changed things, but they aren't changing that much after all.

Norman Matloff is a professor of computer science at UC Davis.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file...EDGOULJ5BC1.DTL

[YuAndDan 153]

I am in information technology and have many friends in the industry, we would love to fill those positions, if there is such a shortage of workers, then why do I see so many IT workers in the states having a hard time finding work?

Where are the jobs?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'm in IT too and we've had open positions that we've been interviewing for but have been unable to fill for months. It's not that there are so few unemployed/underemployed IT people in the workforce, it's that so very few of them are a good 'fit' for the positions we're hiring for.

Will H1-B help? IMO it could, but it won't. #1 reason it won't is because 9 out of 10 H1-B's I've worked with exaggerated on their resumes. I've noticed a clear trend with H1-B candidate resumes (especially the ones from India) - they claim to have a vast breadth of knowledge and experience that makes them very desirable for employment. I've worked for an Indian-owned consulting firm in the past where they 'coached' these guys to pass interviews. They always had people onsite who told us what the specific job requirements were and the coaching was tailored to that.

In other words, H1-B candidates suffer from the same problem that US candidates do. The only difference is, US candidates are less likely to bullsh!t their way to a job.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Gupt

[Nikita2Charles 33]

Labor shortage my #######.

Just another way for the corporation to Fleece America,

OUT of 97 software engineers in my division now only 23 is In America, OUT OF THE 23 MOST OF THEM ON H1 or the new term B1 (Business)Training Visa, few americans.

THE OPEN REQ for this Software engineer Job IS RESERVED FOR H1 " CAN YOU IMAGINE RESERVE

" FOR A SOFTWARE ENGINEER FROM INDIA"

I responded earlier to another posting

1) The corporation are outsourcing (their prefered term now is LCM Low cost manufacturing) to so call Low cost region.

2) As more Jobs are going overseas there are an over supplies of American engineers and yet they are claming Labor shortages, Just simple Arithmetic if you are sending more Jobs overseas doesn't that create a vaccum or a over supply of workers here, so

As Engineers were are being screwed Left and right,

NOT ONLY the corporations are sending more jobs overseas, the few jobs left THEY want to bring more workers from overseas for Cheaper labor to do the scavenging of whatever that's left.

3) HR reprentative mouth SLIPPED UP not even sure so lot of ILLIGAL STUFF happen in the labor market you don't even hear or know about it.

Job req open, and my wife fit the Job profile, HR lady read the resumer and qualification, VERY EXCITED about her joining the company, A week later NADA, ZIP. when I finally approach to find out what's happening

her replie:

" I WANT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU,

THE OPEN REQ for this Software engineer Job IS RESERVED FOR H1 " CAN YOU IMAGINE RESERVE

" FOR A SOFTWARE ENGINEER FROM INDIA"

THe IRONY of it, my wife is INDIAN so if she had applie for the position from INDIA she would have got hired from the SPOT.

OUT of 97 software engineers in my division now only 23 is In America, OUT OF THE 23 MOST OF THEM ON H1 or the new term B1 (Business)Training Visa, few americans.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

#1 reason it won't is because 9 out of 10 H1-B's I've worked with exaggerated on their resumes. I've noticed a clear trend with H1-B candidate resumes (especially the ones from India) - they claim to have a vast breadth of knowledge and experience that makes them very desirable for employment. I've worked for an Indian-owned consulting firm in the past where they 'coached' these guys to pass interviews. They always had people onsite who told us what the specific job requirements were and the coaching was tailored to that.

In other words, H1-B candidates suffer from the same problem that US candidates do. The only difference is, US candidates are less likely to bullsh!t their way to a job.

I work in a completely different industry but I currently report to someone with H1-B visa who is totally f*cking clueless. It really burns me up that my company invested money proving no one in the US could do his job. *I* could do his job.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Peejay, I know that we discussed work visas for low wage workers. Although I think in principal, it's a good idea, but obviously there's room for abuse, particularly with companies because they are given too much clout.

I'm still thinking that part of a solution to our immigration problems (remember that many of the 'illegals' were originally here on a visa which has since expired), involves work visas for all wage ranges. But there has to be oversight and accountability, implementing heavy fines to companies who hired an immigrant over an equally qualified USC. I think it should be tied in with regulations that require a US company that is setting up shop overseas to hire a certain percentage of USC. Companies should be able to use work visas to find qualified people, not to find the cheapest labor, especially at the expense of the American workforce and our economy.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Companies should be able to use work visas to find qualified people, not to find the cheapest labor, especially at the expense of the American workforce and our economy.

Agreed. Companies also need to get on their game and do a better job of properly vetting candidates. And the government needs to address the very real problem (as far as I've seen) of collusion between firms that provide H1-B IT staff and firms that employ them. The collusion exists, why else are so many sub-standard H1-B's working in jobs they're not qualified for?

[zyggy 9]

All an H1-B is is an "let's keep wages for science and technical workers" low visa...

Last time I checked, there's a law in economics called supply and demand... When the supply of technical workers is low.. competition for these workers will rise and the wages offered for these workers with it... when wages go higher, more people will go into that career helping supply

But this hasn't happened due to the H1-B supplying cheap foreign labor into the technical career field... in fact, salaries for science and technical workers has decreases in real money terms...

It's a fact, the reason why wages for science and technical workers has been so flat for the last 10 years or so is mainly because of the H1-B. It's gotten so bad, that enrollment in Engineering Schools in the US has been going down for the last 10 years .. Why.. because Engineering doesn't pay ####### compared to other careers. Why do America's best and brightest want to go into a science and technical career when 1) They will be paid lower than the person next to them who got a business or other degree and 2) when there is a real possibility they'll get laid off becuase some guy overseas who will work for less applies for their job...

America needs Science and Technical Workers... Science and Technical Workers are what made America great and propserous... but we're not fostering a climate where those types of careers are valued anymore...

Mark my words.. 20 years from now.. we will reap what we sow.. when the center of science and technology is elsewhere and we lose our innovators and what has been the key to our economy

Edited December 9, 2006 by zyggy

[peejay 327]

Peejay, I know that we discussed work visas for low wage workers. Although I think in principal, it's a good idea, but obviously there's room for abuse, particularly with companies because they are given too much clout.

I'm still thinking that part of a solution to our immigration problems (remember that many of the 'illegals' were originally here on a visa which has since expired), involves work visas for all wage ranges. But there has to be oversight and accountability, implementing heavy fines to companies who hired an immigrant over an equally qualified USC. I think it should be tied in with regulations that require a US company that is setting up shop overseas to hire a certain percentage of USC. Companies should be able to use work visas to find qualified people, not to find the cheapest labor, especially at the expense of the American workforce and our economy.

The point I was trying to make by posting this was that this program is already being abused and there is little or no oversight. The interests of the American worker in his own country is the last consideration if it is even considered at all. These type of programs are a self fulfilling prophecy. Why would an American even waste the time, money, and effort to train for jobs that are artificially flooded with cheap foreign labor that is prefered over them? So...of course there is an ever increasing shortage of American candidates. What other citizenry in the world would allow its elected leaders to cut the throats of their own supposed constituents? It appears that we are not constituents at all.

In case it has flown under everyone's radar...during this lame duck session of the 109th Congress my Senators John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison are up to their usual dirty work for their backers in corporate America. Cornyn is busy diligently pleasing his corporate masters by trying to shove legislation to double the present H1-B cap. And Hutchison is paying back her corporate backers of her recent reelection by trying to squeak in 90,000 extra visas for cheap foreign nurses.

Why on earth would any American worker support a new guestworker program for illegal aliens when the one program that already does exist (H1-B) is so poorly run, abused, racked with cronyism, and is clearly not in the best interests of American workers or a vast majority of the American people? You can rest assured that any unskilled low cost guestworker program legislation will be written by the very lobbyists in corporate America that profit from illegal immigration and will just legalize what is now supposedly illegal. The taxpayer will just end up (like they do now) picking up the huge social costs of importing mass poverty. There is no such thing as a temporary guestworker. That is a lie. Especially when guestworkers are allowed to bring in their families and their US born children are given citizenship birthright.

At this point I would prefer our government institutions to prove to the American people that they can and will fund the infrastructure to enforce the law and actually do enforce the law instead of vague promises while shoving self serving legislation under the noses of their constituents. There have been all too many lies and water passed under the bridge in the past to trust these people again. IRCA of 1986 is a classic example...one hand was filled with promises and the other hand was filled with sh!t. Guess which hand the American people got?

Edited December 9, 2006 by peejay

[zyggy 9]

Peejay, I know that we discussed work visas for low wage workers. Although I think in principal, it's a good idea, but obviously there's room for abuse, particularly with companies because they are given too much clout.

I'm still thinking that part of a solution to our immigration problems (remember that many of the 'illegals' were originally here on a visa which has since expired), involves work visas for all wage ranges. But there has to be oversight and accountability, implementing heavy fines to companies who hired an immigrant over an equally qualified USC. I think it should be tied in with regulations that require a US company that is setting up shop overseas to hire a certain percentage of USC. Companies should be able to use work visas to find qualified people, not to find the cheapest labor, especially at the expense of the American workforce and our economy.

The point I was trying to make by posting this was that this program is already being abused and there is little or no oversight. The interests of the American worker in his own country is the last consideration if it is even considered at all. These type of programs are a self fulfilling prophecy. Why would an American even waste the time, money, and effort to train for jobs that are artificially flooded with cheap foreign labor that is prefered over them? So...of course there is an ever increasing shortage of American candidates. What other citizenry in the world would allow its elected leaders to cut the throats of their own supposed constituents? It appears that we are not constituents at all.

In case it has flown under everyone's radar...during this lame duck session of the 109th Congress my Senators John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison are up to their usual dirty work for their backers in corporate America. Cornyn is busy diligently pleasing his corporate masters by trying to shove legislation to double the present H1-B cap. And Hutchison is paying back her corporate backers of her recent reelection by trying to squeak in 90,000 extra visas for cheap foreign nurses.

Why on earth would any American worker support another guestworker program for illegal aliens when the one program that already does exist is so poorly run, abused, racked with cronyism, and is clearly not in the best interests of American workers or a vast majority of the American people? You can rest assured that any unskilled low cost guestworker program legislation will be written by the very lobbyists in corporate America that profit from illegal immigration and will just legalize what is now supposedly illegal. The taxpayer will just end up (like they do now) picking up the huge social costs of importing mass poverty. There is no such thing as a temporary guestworker. That is a lie. Especially when guestworkers are allowed to bring in their families and their US born children are given citizenship birthright.

At this point I would prefer our government institutions to prove to the American people that they can and will fund the infrastructure to enforce the law and actually do enforce the law instead of vague promises while shoving self serving legislation under the noses of their constituents. There have been all too many lies and water passed under the bridge in the past to trust these people again. IRCA of 1986 is a classic example...one hand was filled with promises and the other hand was filled with sh!t. Guess which hand the American people got?

Hear hear brother... and you're right... we really aren't the constituents anymore and haven't been for many, many years...

I just love the line.. "well they just do the job that American's won't do"... I have news.. Americans are willing to do any job as long as the wages are commensurate with the work being performed... but why talk about facts... Let's just keep on turning a blind eye to cheap alien labor and let business and the politicians talk in platitudes and sound bites

There used to be a social contract between American labor and American business... That went out the window about 15 years ago.... The same thing happened during the last turn of the century... How long are we going to have to wait until the next Teddy Roosevelt comes along...

Edited December 9, 2006 by zyggy

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

.. 20 years from now.. we will reap what we sow.. when the center of science and technology is elsewhere...

You really think it's gonna take 20 years?

This report is dated December 7 2006:

Cisco is making a big investment in India, having already announced a $1.1 billion plan last October, and yesterday providing an update, most importantly saying India will be the site for its globalization center, or effectively a second global headquarters. Cisco also said it plans a manufacturing pilot facility in Chennai, in addition to expansion of its presence in Bangalore. It expects to triple its workforce over 3-5 years to 6,000, and has allocated and/or deployed tens of millions of dollars for R&D activities, facilities and venture capital. Cisco CEO John Chambers commented, "Cisco chose India ... because India has a highly skilled work force, supportive government, innovative customers and world-class partners that already have global capabilities."

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/061207/21932_id.html

Edited December 9, 2006 by Gupt

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Here's more, on Cisco's move to India:

US-based computer network equipment major Cisco Systems today said it would shift 20 per cent of its top executives to India.

[...]

Wim Elfrink, the company’s third-most senior official, will be its new chief globalisation officer and relocate to Bangalore next year. Elfrink, however, will retain his position of senior vice-president of customer advocacy and report to John Chambers.

http://www.business-standard.com/iceworld/...67211&tab=r

[peejay 327]

Here's more, on Cisco's move to India:

US-based computer network equipment major Cisco Systems today said it would shift 20 per cent of its top executives to India.

[...]

Wim Elfrink, the company’s third-most senior official, will be its new chief globalisation officer and relocate to Bangalore next year. Elfrink, however, will retain his position of senior vice-president of customer advocacy and report to John Chambers.

http://www.business-standard.com/iceworld/...67211&tab=r

I remember when the CEO of Cisco announced to the Chinese that they were poised to become a Chinese company. I guess the labor wasn't rock bottom cheap enough.

It is safe to say it isn't an American company nor does it strive to be. Hopefully that is duely noted by Congress, but I doubt it.

I have no problem with these multinationals having foreign subsidiaries, but outsourcing to cheap labor and dumping imports back into the USA will be the death of America.

$750 billion and growing annual foreign trade deficits are suicidal...and that is just the tip of the iceburg. It is a race to the bottom with the Fat Cats winning the race and everyone else losing.

Add that to importing cheap labor to the USA via H1-B and illegal immigration and the sound of the toilet flushing in the background gets louder and louder.

[Artegal 1]

Having worked in IT for over 10 years I can definitely attest that there indeed no shortage in labor--real wages have decreased--while educational, skill sets, certification and experience requirements have increased.

The problem is the current business model is forget US America (A Mature Economy) and focus on India, China and other rapidly developing markets (Emerging Economies)--in simpler terms: GREED.

[Ban Hammer 14,267]

Having worked in IT for over 10 years I can definitely attest that there indeed no shortage in labor--real wages have decreased--while educational, skill sets, certification and experience requirements have increased.

ditto - i've been in it for about the same amount of time. requirement to have expanded skill sets, cross training, etc. we used to have 3 people per shift, now we have just 2. and the company makes out like a bandit having just 2 do the job of 3. and then the worker bees don't see a significant increase in pay while doing 150% of the work we used to do.