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victorian221b

My RFE - requesting for feedback (warning: long post)

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Hi guys!

So, I got an RFE on 8/14/13 and have been working very hard to get all the documents updated with all the information I need for the RFE response. I wasn't planning on listing what I submitted until I got approved but got stuck with an RFE so hopefully I can get some feedback and also to help other potential application submissions. So here goes...

I am a GC holder married to my USC husband. It'll be 11 years this coming October that we've been together so getting an RFE was kinda a blow. It's like "How can you question??" but yea...

So this is what I had submitted for my initial "conditions removal" application:

- Copies of 2 years worth of tax transcripts (not returns) showing taxes filed jointly

- Photocopy of joint credit cards (my husband's) showing 2 cards with same number and each with our name

- Copies of joint Checking and Savings account from 2 banks spanning 2 years (although I only submitted quarterly or once a year up to April 2013)

- Copies of car insurance ID cards with both of our names on them (2 cars) - but spanning only about a year and a half

- Copy of car title of my car with both of our names

- Copy of car property tax showing joint ownership with both of our names

- Copy of my employer-based health insurance cards covering both me and him

- Copy of husband's credit card statements showing same address

- Copy of husband's account course grade report showing same address (he was taking part-time class)

- Trip itineraries

- Photos

- (seemingly unimportant stuff) My employment letter, his passport, our marriage certificate...

The RFE did not say specifically what they need. It only listed in one paragraph what I had submitted above and then a generic sentence saying "The evidence submitted does not establish, in sufficient detail, joint ownership of assets, joint responsibility for liabilities, and an active commingling of finances for the duration of your marriage..." and the rest is boiler-plate stuff.

Really didn't have the same details I see in other people's RFE. So I kinda have to read between the lines and figure it out myself.

So here are my reasons:

1) No solid proof we lived together apart from the bank statements and bills with same address. I did have a signed lease of 2 years with both of our names on it but it also included my brother's name as we decided to share rent and we were living together. I thought it might have throw everything off course but I guess I should have just submitted it and explained about my brother's situation.

2) Should've submitted more dates of coverage for the car insurance.

3) A point to note is my husband was having a difficult time getting proper employment so most things within the last 2 years was from me so there wasn't too many documents coming from his side apart from a car. I think because it all came from me it may look like I just added his name to everything. But now that I think about it should've just submitted whatever employment document he had at the time (many of them were temporary and no benefits but did have the same address).

4) I did a change of address (for the new house) while the application was pending (this is just based on speculation from others on this forum).

5) Right before I got my conditional GC, I was living in a different location with a lease signed only by me. We moved to the new location about 2 months after I got my GC so there were no common shared addresses to the first location. The reason why I brought this up is I had listed on the conditional removal that there was a different address before the one I used for the conditional removal.

Regarding the residency, we were planning on moving again as we only signed for a 2-year lease and at the time we thought just having my side of things updated will be enough because we'd have to move again (it's not fun changing addresses and trying to keep track of that!).

Now, since I filed in April, a few things have happened: 1) We bought a house together and 2) my husband has secured permanent employment and will have more documents to provide.

So here is what I will be responding to the RFE with:

1) Updated bank account statements since we filed.

2) We have since updated all of our addresses (before getting the RFE) so now anything that needs an address whether it's us together or individually will have the same address and this includes:

- updated credit card statements

- updated bank statements

- updated car registrations

- my employment documents and his employment documents

3) New home:

- The deed with both of our names

- Homeowner's insurance with both of our names

- Mortgage with my name (he was unemployed when we applied for a mortgage so the bank didn't allow him to be liable for it)

- Utility bills all under his name, except internet service which is mine

- Larger purchases made under his name to the home (probably not as strong but just gonna throw it in to show we've been working together on the new home) - duct cleaning, new flooring, carpet cleaning etc.

4) We are going to update his car title to include me as joint owner

5) Throw in a few notarized affidavits

6) (Seemingly unimportant but it's getting thrown in!) We finally went on our honeymoon this past July so I am going to throw in more photos...

Now some questions:

1) When they say to not send in documents previously submitted, do they mean the exact same ones or documents that are similar? For example, I submitted one month bank statement from 2011 and one month bank statement from 2012. Can I submit more bank statements from the other months of 2011 and 2012?

2) The RFE boiler-plate requirement mentioned that I need to submit more documents spanning the entire length of marriage, should I try to dig out more or just stick with the new stuff we just updated?

3) I've combed through this forum for more ideas for providing strong evidences and I think I have covered everything but I may have missed some...

4) We have no kids and not planning any soon so that's completely out the window, that one...

Finally, thank you so much for making it this far in the post! I hope this is helpful for some although I haven't gotten approval so I doubt it will do much at this point. I also hope to get some feedback. I was quite upset when I received the RFE but once I looked over my initial submission I can kind of see why but I'm still doubtful the evidences weren't strong to warrant an RFE (I mean if some of the submissions claim to be true then I may have over submitted!).

Anyways so here's my journey so far...thank you!

(can you imagine how many things can happen in 2 years??)


ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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i say start over. here's the bits that are troublesome to me, with my explanation:

joint ownership of assets -> monthly bank statements. tax bills on house, if you have house.

joint responsibility for liabilities - monthly utility bills showing both names. life insurance showing each other as beneficiary.

and an active commingling of finances for the duration of your marriage -> monthly credit card statements

when I write 'monthly' here, I mean from the time you married to yesterday. Whatever that span is, must to show each month.


Sometimes my language usage seems confusing - please feel free to 'read it twice', just in case !
Ya know, you can find the answer to your question with the advanced search tool, when using a PC? Ditch the handphone, come back later on a PC, and try again.

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Hi guys!

So, I got an RFE on 8/14/13 and have been working very hard to get all the documents updated with all the information I need for the RFE response. I wasn't planning on listing what I submitted until I got approved but got stuck with an RFE so hopefully I can get some feedback and also to help other potential application submissions. So here goes...

I think you have missed a critical part of the paragraph they sent to you...here is what they said...

"The evidence submitted does not establish, in sufficient detail, joint ownership of assets, joint responsibility for liabilities, and an active commingling of finances for the duration of your marriage.."

You've just sent in stuff from the last two years. Go back and get some stuff from those early years. Yes, I know you submitted some things during your original submission, but they want to see that you've actually commingled assets for MORE than the conditional period.

Think about adding some older records that show commingled funds and assets from the beginning of your marriage.

Hope this helps.

Sukie


Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Our Prior Journey

N-400 Naturalization

18-Feb-2018 - submitted N-400 online, credit card charged

18-Feb-2018 - NOA1

12-Mar-2018 - Biometrics 

18-June-2018 - Notice of interview received

26-July-2018 - Interview  - APPROVED!!!

26-July-2018 - Oath Ceremony Scheduled

17-Aug-2018 - Oath Ceremony

 

 

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To them it looks like you are just doing all of this stuff on purpose to get the greencard. They don't want updated anything. They want documents from ten years ago showing you were actively married then up until the time you sent in the petition. One month of a statement is not showing them anything. Take 3-4 statements from each account for each year that your had it.


England.gif England!

And in this crazy life, and through these crazy times

It's you, it's you, You make me sing.

You're every line, you're every word, you're everything.

b0cb1a39c4.png

ROC Timeline

Sent: 7/21/12

NOA1: 7/23/12

Touch: 7/24/2012

Biometrics: 8/24/2012

Card Production Ordered: 3/6/2013

*Eligible for Naturalization: October 13, 2013*

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I think you have missed a critical part of the paragraph they sent to you...here is what they said...

"The evidence submitted does not establish, in sufficient detail, joint ownership of assets, joint responsibility for liabilities, and an active commingling of finances for the duration of your marriage.."

You've just sent in stuff from the last two years. Go back and get some stuff from those early years. Yes, I know you submitted some things during your original submission, but they want to see that you've actually commingled assets for MORE than the conditional period.

Think about adding some older records that show commingled funds and assets from the beginning of your marriage.

Hope this helps.

Sukie

We've only been married for just a little over 2 years...sorry, I should've made that clear (11 years including dating etc.). I tried to go back and edit my post and realized I couldn't!


ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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Ok I want to clarify something. I realized it could've been misconstrued when I said we've been together for 11 years - I couldn't go back and change my post.

The length of our marriage is only the length of the conditional GC. Not 11 years...sorry!!! When I said 11, I meant we've known each other and dated and stuff for that long.

Edited by victorian221b

ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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What did you have originally? Did you adjust status, K-1 or CR1?


England.gif England!

And in this crazy life, and through these crazy times

It's you, it's you, You make me sing.

You're every line, you're every word, you're everything.

b0cb1a39c4.png

ROC Timeline

Sent: 7/21/12

NOA1: 7/23/12

Touch: 7/24/2012

Biometrics: 8/24/2012

Card Production Ordered: 3/6/2013

*Eligible for Naturalization: October 13, 2013*

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Have you made Wills? Executed medical powers of attorney?


06-04-2007 = TSC stamps postal return-receipt for I-129f.

06-11-2007 = NOA1 date (unknown to me).

07-20-2007 = Phoned Immigration Officer; got WAC#; where's NOA1?

09-25-2007 = Touch (first-ever).

09-28-2007 = NOA1, 23 days after their 45-day promise to send it (grrrr).

10-20 & 11-14-2007 = Phoned ImmOffs; "still pending."

12-11-2007 = 180 days; file is "between workstations, may be early Jan."; touches 12/11 & 12/12.

12-18-2007 = Call; file is with Division 9 ofcr. (bckgrnd check); e-prompt to shake it; touch.

12-19-2007 = NOA2 by e-mail & web, dated 12-18-07 (187 days; 201 per VJ); in mail 12/24/07.

01-09-2008 = File from USCIS to NVC, 1-4-08; NVC creates file, 1/15/08; to consulate 1/16/08.

01-23-2008 = Consulate gets file; outdated Packet 4 mailed to fiancee 1/27/08; rec'd 3/3/08.

04-29-2008 = Fiancee's 4-min. consular interview, 8:30 a.m.; much evidence brought but not allowed to be presented (consul: "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!").

05-05-2008 = Infuriating $12 call to non-English-speaking consulate appointment-setter.

05-06-2008 = Better $12 call to English-speaker; "joint" interview date 6/30/08 (my selection).

06-30-2008 = Stokes Interrogations w/Ecuadorian (not USC); "wait 2 weeks; we'll mail her."

07-2008 = Daily calls to DOS: "currently processing"; 8/05 = Phoned consulate, got Section Chief; wrote him.

08-07-08 = E-mail from consulate, promising to issue visa "as soon as we get her passport" (on 8/12, per DHL).

08-27-08 = Phoned consulate (they "couldn't find" our file); visa DHL'd 8/28; in hand 9/1; through POE on 10/9 with NO hassles(!).

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What did you have originally? Did you adjust status, K-1 or CR1?

I adjusted my status from H1-B.


ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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Have you made Wills? Executed medical powers of attorney?

No wills.

I do have a couple of doctors that I have seen throughout our married life that listed him as the sole person who can access my medical records. Does that count?


ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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I was thinking over the statement "duration of our marriage" and I'm thinking to also submit the documents that I submitted when I applied for the conditional GC. I had thought (and confirmed a few times by various sources) that USCIS is interested in seeing whether or not the married life has continued to be established after receiving the conditional GC. But the only thing that stood out for me in the RFE is perhaps I did not provide enough from the day we got married. I had only provided evidence after I received my GC.

Thank you sooo much for everyone's feedback by the way :)

Edited by victorian221b

ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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Hello Victorian.

Happy Friday to you !

Have you thought more, put more brainpower focusing on 'monthly', or no ?

What's yer plan for success on this RFE ?


Sometimes my language usage seems confusing - please feel free to 'read it twice', just in case !
Ya know, you can find the answer to your question with the advanced search tool, when using a PC? Ditch the handphone, come back later on a PC, and try again.

-=-=-=-=-=R E A D ! ! !=-=-=-=-=-

Whoa Nelly ! Want NVC Info? see http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/NVC_Process

Congratulations on your approval ! We All Applaud your accomplishment with Most Wonderful Kissies !

2mzcunl.gif

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Hello Victorian.

Happy Friday to you !

Have you thought more, put more brainpower focusing on 'monthly', or no ?

What's yer plan for success on this RFE ?

After thinking this through I am planning on submitting documents that I had submitted when I applied for the conditional GC in March of 2011. We got married on Sept of 2010 so in the original submission I had included:

- Joint ownership of my car (already submitted in April 2013)

- Car insurance showing both of our names since 2010

- Car registration showing both of our names since 2010

- Bank statements showing joint account ownership since 2010 (I am ordering some more but not for every month, more like every two months to every quarter)

So I will attach all of the above except the docs I had already submitted in April, in addition to what I had already listed in my OP. I am also calling up my doctor's office for records I signed to authorize release of medical records to my husband if he requested it - the form was dated 2010 and I still see the same doctor (probably show a recent claim report from that same doctor).

We had lived in 2 different addresses since we got married but unfortunately only have signed joint lease for one so gonna have to explain that in the cover letter somehow. Utility bills are also all in my name.

Again, husband was unemployed for most of the time we were married so not much I can get from his side except for a few pay stubs to the same address.

You would think why I didn't just submit all of these in the first place, well I had thought I had provided everything that was sufficient but you just never know what you are still missing.

So we'll see how this one goes...


ROC Journey:

4/24/13 - Submitted I-751 application

4/26/13 - I-751 officially filed

6/11/13 - Biometrics done

8/14/13 - Rec'd RFE

9/21/13 - Submitted RFE response

9/23/13 - RFE response rec'd at VSC

(about 2 months later)

11/21/13 - Service request via Tier 1 submitted

12/11/13 - Response to service request rec'd - vague info about processing times

12/12/13 - Service request via Tier 2 submitted

12/10/13 - APPROVED!!! (letter rec'd 12/14/13)

12/16/13 - 2nd Service request response rec'd

12/17/13 - Card production email/text rec'd (online case updated)!

12/24/13 - Notification rec'd via email regarding card mailed on 12/23/13 (online case updated as well)

12/26/13 - 10-yr card rec'd!

One thing I have learned on this journey:

There is no such thing as an "overkill" evidence package. Submit anything and everything you can. Who knows what will prevent you from getting an RFE.

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I suggest you refactor a bit - adding in

MONTHLY stuff.

duration is a big thing, you've been dinged for it already already, so showing MONTHLY (IMO) is gonna be the thing that saves you.

Think of it as a journal, starting from date of marriage, to yesterday. Must to show each month of 'what occured' in the sections I wrote about previously.

There's no harm in refactoring - none what so ever. Done properly? You will have success.


Sometimes my language usage seems confusing - please feel free to 'read it twice', just in case !
Ya know, you can find the answer to your question with the advanced search tool, when using a PC? Ditch the handphone, come back later on a PC, and try again.

-=-=-=-=-=R E A D ! ! !=-=-=-=-=-

Whoa Nelly ! Want NVC Info? see http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/NVC_Process

Congratulations on your approval ! We All Applaud your accomplishment with Most Wonderful Kissies !

2mzcunl.gif

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Hi Victorian221b,

Do you have mutual friends or family that can write affidavits to attest to the fact that you are in a bonafide marriage relationship? I imagine that you do since you have been together many years. I know that personal affidavits may seem very weak as proof, but they worked in my case.

I was in the same boat as you not too long ago. I sent in my ROC package in Oct 2012, did the biometrics in Nov, and heard nothing from USCIS until they sent the RFE request in May 2013 (took them almost 8 months to do so)

In the RFE letter, they also said that the evidence we had initially sent was not sufficient to establish a bonafide marriage relationship.

They listed what we had originally sent (last 2 year leases with both names, utility bills, car insurance, checking, credit, investment accounts statements for every quarter since getting my conditional GC, joint IRS tax return transcripts as married couple for 2010 and 2011, photos with family throughout the 2 years, etc). I also only included documents starting from my conditional GC date (bank documents were just continuation from our AOS package as we have had the same accounts since)

Here is the funny part: the RFE letter then went on to suggest what we could send in as our response, and they were exactly the same items as we had sent in originally, except that their suggestion included birth certificate of children which we don't have (not yet!) anyway.

So what we did was ask a mutual friend and my father in law to write affidavits confirming that to their knowledge our marriage was legitimate. By that time, our 2012 tax return transcript had also become available, so we included that, plus the latest statements for all financial accounts we had even though we had already sent in quarterly statements for ROC.

I was approved in August less than 2 weeks after sending in our RFE response with no interview. We waited until almost the end of the 89 day allowance to send it, because all that time we couldn't think of anything else in addition to the documents we had sent before. Then we decided to go with affidavits. They were the only thing that was not included in the original application package (not counting the latest tax transcripts and financial accounts etc).

I was pretty sure that our RFE response wasn't going to be good enough and that we were going to get an interview, but apparently the affidavits was good enough for USCIS and they promptly issued the approval.

I would not have minded if they wanted to take their time, because I would become eligible for naturalization application a week after that anyway.

I am sorry for writing such a long post. If you get through it, I hope my experience will help a little bit.

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