Halal meat

[zahrasalem 114]

Regarding having to be careful when we eat at a restaurant; something as simple as french fries is a big thing to look out for....ask the waiter/waitress what kind of oil they fry the french fries in. If the restaurant also serves bacon, most likely those french fries are fried in the same oil as the bacon..

My husband is a chef at a very nice restaurant, and he discovered by chance that they do that very thing..soooooo...no french fries for us from there!! Now we just assume that most restaurants do the same thing, to save money on oil.

Another topic....in the late 1990's I lived in Khamis Mushayt, Saudi Arabia, where there is an American Air Force base, and the American pilots would bring back bacon from the US and the local grocery store, Al Ghoneim's, actually stored it in their meat dept. just for the expat Americans and British. Just something I found interesting while I was there....

[sarsorti 36]

Ok so your anti-pork copy paste sounded better? Sounded like a bunch of baseless #######. At least the "pro-pork propaganda" info came from folks who raise pigs and know what they're actually talking about not some garbage scare tactics #######.

If ppl don't want to eat pork for religious reasons that's great and their prerogative. Posting absolutely false, unsubstantiated information to back up your hatred of pigs is ridiculous. Just don't eat pork. Your fellow Muslims don't need convincing with that nonsense you posted.

I don't eat pork and I don't hate pigs, nor am I trying to convince my fellow Muslims of anything. The only nonsense here is trying to have a friendly adult debatable conversation with someone who

clearly is one-sided. I happen to live in the country surrounded by pig farmers my whole life, I know about pigs, apparently so do you, thank God we are all entitled to our own opinions. The End.

[sarsorti 36]

Ok so your anti-pork copy paste sounded better? Sounded like a bunch of baseless #######. At least the "pro-pork propaganda" info came from folks who raise pigs and know what they're actually talking about not some garbage scare tactics #######.

If ppl don't want to eat pork for religious reasons that's great and their prerogative. Posting absolutely false, unsubstantiated information to back up your hatred of pigs is ridiculous. Just don't eat pork. Your fellow Muslims don't need convincing with that nonsense you posted.

I don't eat pork and I don't hate pigs, nor am I trying to convince my fellow Muslims of anything. The only nonsense here is trying to have a friendly adult debatable conversation with someone who is clearly one-sided. I happen to live in farm country surrounded by pig farmers my whole life, I know about pigs, apparently so do you, thank God we are all entitled to our own opinions.The End.

This coming from someone who takes claim that they can be the grandest A##hole of all time...really? I would have never guessed! Now it's THE END.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Cut and paste? Of course, you don't think I spent my whole day listing facts from my head, I am not a scientist or a scholar. You ask for reasons other than religious ones. If you don't like the facts and you don't want religious reasons then there is no point in making conversation about it. I choose not to eat pork for all the reasons I copied and pasted but also for my religion and I have never been in better health. Just for the record and no accusations as I am not saying anyone isolated any one particular religion, Islam is not the only religion who knows the facts about the pig. The pig does have it's place in this world just not in our bodies, and that is my personal and religious beliefs and Allah(swt) is my judge. Thank God we live here in America and have the right to freedom of beliefs. It bothers me not that ignorance laughs.

Other religions that do not eat "the other white meat":

Jewish

Seventh Day Adventists

There are many christian sects that know pork is bad and choose not to eat it

However, the truth is if you are starving to death and pig is all you can find to eat and you can actually swallow it then Allah(swt) will not hold you accountable for eating the scavenger.

It would not take anyone with half a brain more than 30 seconds to realize how ridiculous and nonsensical those c&p jobs were. Can't be poisoned with strychnine? Pigs have "pus filled canals running down their legs"? And none of this absurdity tipped you off that maybe those cut and pastes were written by people who don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about?

From where are you getting that I "don't want religious reasons" for why not? I've explicitly said over and over that the only reason I don't eat haram food is because it's religiously prohibited. No.other.reason. It's certainly not lies or or made up garbage about pigs that keeps me from eating them.

You know what else it's forbidden to eat? Bears. Polar bears, grizzlies, even those cute little sun bears are disallowed. The same is true of lions, tigers and Komodo dragons. But no one is out there writing these ridiculous lists of outright lies and junk science about the supposed inherent filthiness of cheetahs, or wolves, or elephants. (All not allowed to eat either!) It's embarrassing, and discrediting for Muslims when some of them copy and paste and pass around this kind of nonsense.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Read my post again sister. "We hear and obey" Have you ever read Quran? Read last few verses of chapter 2 (Al Baqarah)

Yeah, I've like said numerous times here that I don't eat it because the Quran says not to eat it. And your response to that is to insinuate that' I'm somehow deficient or lacking in having read the very source I just cited? Really?

Right, we hear and obey that it's forbidden, on that we are in agreement. Then you also assert that it's "not good for our health" and that's the reason that it is therefore prohibited. How do you know that's why? Spiritually it's certainly harmful, but how is it harmful physically? On a nutritional level? A microbiological level? None of those reasons really hold up, so I don't understand what the problem seems to be for so many people with just accepting it, instead of trying to find reasons that are completely unneeded. Slandering the animal hardly seems necessary.

Edited March 17, 2013 by sandinista!

[sandinista! 1,816]

Mithra, i,take your advise and not let others judge me here. So here goes.

My wifes family has a big farm in texas with so many hundred of animals and so many pigs. I know I will be judged here for saying this, though I dont eat pork, I find myself helping with feeding the animals and at first I was hesitate about even looking at the pigs much less feeding them. They are so ungly but have found a good place in my heart as Allah did creat them but I know to never eat them. I dont hate them as others here seem to judge this animal as a creature from hell.

To be honest, these pigs have a better lifestyle in there farm then so many on the streets. The pigs live on fresh vegetables, corn feed, and even get daily baths by the helpers since the day they born. I guess, I just am a bit different in my way of thinking of this animal, since I now help take care of them.

My issue with that, not that you asked me, would be that your actions nevertheless benefit and contribute to a haram business. Assisting that business in any way is problematic. You certainly don't have to hate them, and should always treat them humanely, but...

[sandinista! 1,816]

And as far as being raised, there was nothing in this quote - but in general pigs are dirty, unclean animals. Give them a bath and keep there pen clean, provide them the most pure fresh food and they will still eat their own feces. When God told us not to eat pigs, Qu'ran or bible he said because they are unclean and forbidden. I personally don't care how one chooses to raise a pig - the debate that has been going on here between many members is if the meat is any worse for you or not than other animals, how some animals are killed and if it is ok to eat the meat from regular grocery stores or not.

You know who else will do that? Goats. Chickens. Rabbits. All of them perfectly halal animals to consume in every Sunni madhab.

[MedRoni 161]

You know who else will do that? Goats. Chickens. Rabbits. All of them perfectly halal animals to consume in every Sunni madhab.

Those animals are halal, however they do not eat garbage... other dead animals, rotting food, flesh, or even their own kind. They do not eat wood, and plastic, and anything they can swallow.

Besides, I am willing to bet a rabbit in the wild would choose to eat its natural food instead of its own waste. In a pen relying on a human to eventually bring him food then ok, yes he might.

Either way - pigs are garbage eaters and that is a definite fact. They will eat anything they can get down regardless if it is even meant for consumption by any living thing. I have seen pigs with plenty in their eating trough go over and eat pieces of fence. I even saw one chewing on a shoe when I got off the school bus one day! I am sticking with God when he said they were unclean. He did not just say don't eat them for no good reason... just because He felt that way at the moment. No... he had good reason.

There are many of us that believe they are not good for us. You keep saying science doesn't prove it, but medical studies have in fact proven pork is not the same as every other meat out there. That it does have some bad qualities. Just because people do not agree with you does not make them all wrong. It just means it is really time we all agree to disagree.

[JBoss 12]

Those animals are halal, however they do not eat garbage... other dead animals, rotting food, flesh, or even their own kind. They do not eat wood, and plastic, and anything they can swallow.

Besides, I am willing to bet a rabbit in the wild would choose to eat its natural food instead of its own waste. In a pen relying on a human to eventually bring him food then ok, yes he might.

Either way - pigs are garbage eaters and that is a definite fact. They will eat anything they can get down regardless if it is even meant for consumption by any living thing. I have seen pigs with plenty in their eating trough go over and eat pieces of fence. I even saw one chewing on a shoe when I got off the school bus one day! I am sticking with God when he said they were unclean. He did not just say don't eat them for no good reason... just because He felt that way at the moment. No... he had good reason.

There are many of us that believe they are not good for us. You keep saying science doesn't prove it, but medical studies have in fact proven pork is not the same as every other meat out there. That it does have some bad qualities. Just because people do not agree with you does not make them all wrong. It just means it is really time we all agree to disagree.

Concur.

[MedRoni 161]

And for the ones looking for medical or scientific proof, not just "internet kaka" - just Google the "CDC and pork".

I won't post the links or information here as I know some of you hate to see the copy and paste method, however there are several different issues they have listed there regarding and warning about the dangers of eating pork.

For those of you outside the US, the CDC is our Center for Disease Control and Prevention. The same ones who determine what communicable diseases must be tested for during immigration medical exams. I am pretty sure they would have checked the facts.

[devotedpartners 77]

My issue with that, not that you asked me, would be that your actions nevertheless benefit and contribute to a haram business. Assisting that business in any way is problematic. You certainly don't have to hate them, and should always treat them humanely, but...

yes i see your point about assisting the animals. The animals are not for sale as a business its all family owned animals. In our area there are farms who sell animals to people but her family enjoys just having animals and raising them. I thought I was helping as her father tries to teach me new things while my,wife works, somedays she is gone two,straight days on her shift. I didnt know feeding could be,haram as i stand behind a gate and never touch,them. I will have my wife,explain to her dad the reasons.

thank you

[devotedpartners 77]

Those animals are halal, however they do not eat garbage... other dead animals, rotting food, flesh, or even their own kind. They do not eat wood, and plastic, and anything they can swallow.

Besides, I am willing to bet a rabbit in the wild would choose to eat its natural food instead of its own waste. In a pen relying on a human to eventually bring him food then ok, yes he might.

Either way - pigs are garbage eaters and that is a definite fact. They will eat anything they can get down regardless if it is even meant for consumption by any living thing. I have seen pigs with plenty in their eating trough go over and eat pieces of fence. I even saw one chewing on a shoe when I got off the school bus one day! I am sticking with God when he said they were unclean. He did not just say don't eat them for no good reason... just because He felt that way at the moment. No... he had good reason.

There are many of us that believe they are not good for us. You keep saying science doesn't prove it, but medical studies have in fact proven pork is not the same as every other meat out there. That it does have some bad qualities. Just because people do not agree with you does not make them all wrong. It just means it is really time we all agree to disagree.

Haa that,is,funny what you say above that these animals,dont eat garbage. i chase away goats all day chewing on the side if the barn, why they want to eat barn wood is crazy to me, but,they do but yet you say they dont as if you live on a farm and raise animals. I see chickens every single day pecking on plastic feed bags but,yet you say they dont, so how are you to know this and that they dont swallow any of this.

[MedRoni 161]

Haa that,is,funny what you say above that these animals,dont eat garbage. i chase away goats all day chewing on the side if the barn, why they want to eat barn wood is crazy to me, but,they do but yet you say they dont as if you live on a farm and raise animals. I see chickens every single day pecking on plastic feed bags but,yet you say they dont, so how are you to know this and that they dont swallow any of this.

Ah... don't assume I have not been a farm girl in my life time either! I have in the past, most likely many more years than you have been helping. I did not say the other animals never eat what they should not... but pigs will go so far as to eat each other when one dies. Show me a goat or a chicken that will, a picture please! Until then, still not convinced they are one in the same.

[devotedpartners 77]

The issue I have here is the US is generally a Christian dominated country, however not all meat here is from people of the book. How can you be certain the meat you are eating from a big grocery store chain was raised and slaughtered by someone/people of the book? There are millions of atheists, Mormans, Jehova Witness', Buddhists, pagans, etc. in the country overall. And a good percentage of the Christians are not even practicing at all. So really, you can call this a christian country, but you can group an entire nation as "people of the book". I really don't see how you can say all the meat here is just fine to eat for Muslims, based on the teachings of the Qur'an.

I,would like to know what you meant by being RAISED as well from your statement. Also, in my town, there are places close to buy halal meat, but what makes,it,halal are you just asuming because someone who owns the store is muslim and its okay to trust them. I have a friend who is a butcher and he,attends friday prayer and I asked him where do you get your meat from, his reply was we pick it up at a local farm. THIS IS HALAL??? and he works at a halal market. The farm did the slaughtering. No one or any muslim can ever be guaranteed of what,is eaten, unless you slaugter it,yourself. Im not saying all places are like,this place, but now it does cross my mind. Just because your muslim does not make you perfect. Sadly, i see many who pray, and on weekends i see them walking with a beer in their hand. But you seem to think you can trust any muslim who owns a market and calls iits meat halal.

What about alcohol? Im guessing since your so smart andmgo by the book and researc online you and,your husband have never eaten sweets with the little bits,of alcohol in it. My wife,show me that,stuff you add for flavor, almost all sweets have it, but are you gonna say that is okay to eat.

[MedRoni 161]

I,would like to know what you meant by being RAISED as well from your statement. Also, in my town, there are places close to buy halal meat, but what makes,it,halal are you just asuming because someone who owns the store is muslim and its okay to trust them. I have a friend who is a butcher and he,attends friday prayer and I asked him where do you get your meat from, his reply was we pick it up at a local farm. THIS IS HALAL??? and he works at a halal market. The farm did the slaughtering. No one or any muslim can ever be guaranteed of what,is eaten, unless you slaugter it,yourself. Im not saying all places are like,this place, but now it does cross my mind. Just because your muslim does not make you perfect. Sadly, i see many who pray, and on weekends i see them walking with a beer in their hand. But you seem to think you can trust any muslim who owns a market and calls iits meat halal.

What about alcohol? Im guessing since your so smart andmgo by the book and researc online you and,your husband have never eaten sweets with the little bits,of alcohol in it. My wife,show me that,stuff you add for flavor, almost all sweets have it, but are you gonna say that is okay to eat.

I already explained what I meant. And you are right, unless we sit there and watch someone kill the animal we will never be 100% sure it is halal. All I can do is go by the certifications a place has gone through. I do not buy halal meat at random farms or stores just because they say they are. We buy from the certified places only. There is only so much one can do and God understands people that have followed everything they possibly can.

Now as for the personal attack - I never ever said I was perfect, I like everyone else am far from it. As a matter of fact I have said several times here everyone is entitled to their beliefs and should not be judged. I am in no way perfect or superior. I don't see you making this same accusation to some of the other posters that were more than rude regarding their insistence on what they believe to be correct.

Now for the sweets... again, like your assumptions before - you don't know me. We in fact do not use the vanilla flavorings and extracts for sweets. Nothing with the alcohol. Did you know you can actually buy real, fresh flavorings that have no alcohol> Oh... and just snce you seem to care - fruit is our dessert and sweets for the day. Every day. Is there alcohol in those too?