Gun owners push back: a former Marine's letter to Dianne Feinstein

[Teddy B 17,251]

For the record, that's not my suggestion for gun control. So in order to be more comprehensive, you have to get rid of a substantial portion of the guns in private hands, specifically, the ones that are used most often. I don't believe that is going to happen in the next several decades. That is why I suggest attacking the root of the problem. Mental health is clearly one of them. We average 50+ suicides per day from guns, over double the amount of murders by firearms. If that isn't mental health, I don't know what is. Ditto for the mass shootings. All of those guys are a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

What are your thoughts and ideas on reducing these deaths?

1. A mandatory 10 year sentence for anyone that is illegaly in posession of a firearm. The same for anyone caught selling illegal guns. And a mandatory lifetime ban of ever owning a gun.

2. A complete ban on all assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

3. Extensive background checks on all perspective gun buyers that includes everyone living in their household, both criminal and mental. If one person in that household does not pass the background check, no guns.

4. Limit the amount of guns one person can own. One handgun, one shotgun, one rifle (non-semi automatic for hunting purposes only).

5. Mandatory "no questions asked" gun buy back program for everyone. It can possibly be done as a tax deduction for those folks on the up & up.

6. Mandatory registration of all guns owned by every gun owner.

7. A nationwide gun law, not state to state.

The above can be implimented immediately and will provide results much sooner than a nationwide overhaul of the economy and the mental healtyh system. Once we become serious about getting these guns off the street, then we can then start on a nationwide program to get our neighborhoods stabil and look into the causes of the mental health problems that we face today.

[Teddy B 17,251]

1. A mandatory 10 year sentence for anyone that is illegaly in posession of a firearm. The same for anyone caught selling illegal guns. And a mandatory lifetime ban of ever owning a gun.

2. A complete ban on all assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

3. Extensive background checks on all perspective gun buyers that includes everyone living in their household, both criminal and mental. If one person in that household does not pass the background check, no guns.

4. Limit the amount of guns one person can own. One handgun, one shotgun, one rifle (non-semi automatic for hunting purposes only).

5. Mandatory "no questions asked" gun buy back program for everyone. It can possibly be done as a tax deduction for those folks on the up & up.

6. Mandatory registration of all guns owned by every gun owner.

7. A nationwide gun law, not state to state.

The above can be implimented immediately and will provide results much sooner than a nationwide overhaul of the economy and the mental healtyh system. Once we become serious about getting these guns off the street, then we can then start on a nationwide program to get our neighborhoods stabil and look into the causes of the mental health problems that we face today.

Please note on #4, that should not read (non-semi automatic) that was a mistype on my part.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

1. A mandatory 10 year sentence for anyone that is illegaly in posession of a firearm. The same for anyone caught selling illegal guns. And a mandatory lifetime ban of ever owning a gun.

2. A complete ban on all assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

3. Extensive background checks on all perspective gun buyers that includes everyone living in their household, both criminal and mental. If one person in that household does not pass the background check, no guns.

4. Limit the amount of guns one person can own. One handgun, one shotgun, one rifle (non-semi automatic for hunting purposes only).

5. Mandatory "no questions asked" gun buy back program for everyone. It can possibly be done as a tax deduction for those folks on the up & up.

6. Mandatory registration of all guns owned by every gun owner.

7. A nationwide gun law, not state to state.

The above can be implimented immediately and will provide results much sooner than a nationwide overhaul of the economy and the mental healtyh system. Once we become serious about getting these guns off the street, then we can then start on a nationwide program to get our neighborhoods stabil and look into the causes of the mental health problems that we face today.

These suggestions would have an effect on future firearms sales, but you still have many millions of weapons out there that are in private hands, legally and illegally. I can see lifetime bans being implemented in #1, and also for people convicted of certain types of violent crime, rape, some cases of assault - especially for repeat offenders, careless use of a firearm etc.

#2, I won't be surprised if we don't see some attempt at this in the near future. Personally I don't agree with it.

#3 I think we can do more in the area of background checks. I don't know how we could do what you proposed as far as time and manpower, but we can be more thorough.

#4 I don't see how this is even remotely possible with the number of guns out there. Unless you take them from people who own more than that. I don't see that happening. Again, if this applies to new licenses only, you still have 300 million out there anyway.

#5 Gun buyback programs are fine as long as they are voluntary. It should be easy to implement buyback programs as many areas already have them. Plus there is voluntary turn in.

#6 I think this one is going to be impossible to enforce too. I can choose which guns that I will register. There are 10's of millions that nobody knows about that were bought decades ago. You can't search everyone's house to see what they have.

#7 I wonder how this one would go over. Right now there are a variety of laws from state to state. Would Federal regulation be the way to go? I wonder how much resistance this would get? Especially from the lenient states.

I still see the mental health issue as being huge. More gun deaths by suicide than murder tell me a lot about the mental state of a lot of people. The slums, drug infested areas, economic and lack of education contribute the bulk of the problem, IMO.

[Teddy B 17,251]

These suggestions would have an effect on future firearms sales, but you still have many millions of weapons out there that are in private hands, legally and illegally. I can see lifetime bans being implemented in #1, and also for people convicted of certain types of violent crime, rape, some cases of assault - especially for repeat offenders, careless use of a firearm etc.

#2, I won't be surprised if we don't see some attempt at this in the near future. Personally I don't agree with it.

#3 I think we can do more in the area of background checks. I don't know how we could do what you proposed as far as time and manpower, but we can be more thorough.

#4 I don't see how this is even remotely possible with the number of guns out there. Unless you take them from people who own more than that. I don't see that happening. Again, if this applies to new licenses only, you still have 300 million out there anyway.

#5 Gun buyback programs are fine as long as they are voluntary. It should be easy to implement buyback programs as many areas already have them. Plus there is voluntary turn in.

#6 I think this one is going to be impossible to enforce too. I can choose which guns that I will register. There are 10's of millions that nobody knows about that were bought decades ago. You can't search everyone's house to see what they have.

#7 I wonder how this one would go over. Right now there are a variety of laws from state to state. Would Federal regulation be the way to go? I wonder how much resistance this would get? Especially from the lenient states.

I still see the mental health issue as being huge. More gun deaths by suicide than murder tell me a lot about the mental state of a lot of people. The slums, drug infested areas, economic and lack of education contribute the bulk of the problem, IMO.

#3. If you don't believe that we have the resources for more intense background checks, I'm not sure how you intend to impliment your plan at all. Could you explain how your plan can be funded but background checks cannot?

#4. Yes, people will have to pick one gun from each category I mentioned and turn the rest in by a certain date. First offense for not doing this could be a hefty fine, after that it falls into the category of posessing an illegal firearm, 10 years in jail.

#5. Nothing voluntary about the turn ins/buy backs. If we're going to be serious about this and fix it, it needs to be mandatory.

#6. Again, get caught with an illegal weapon, 10 years.

#7. To my knowledge, all countries with effective gun control laws have nationwide laws, not state to state or province to province.

There is no doubt that mental health is an issue, that needs to be adressed, but will take many years, probably decades, and a whole lot of money.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

#6 I think this one is going to be impossible to enforce too. I can choose which guns that I will register. There are 10's of millions that nobody knows about that were bought decades ago. You can't search everyone's house to see what they have.

No but you can set a deadline for registration after which each non-registered gun becomes an illegal gun. Then you go up to #1. Don't wanna register your gun? Fine, you might get away with it. But you might end up spending years in the slammer and lose your eligibility to ever own a firearm again. Wanna take that chance? Go ahead.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

1. A mandatory 10 year sentence for anyone that is illegaly in posession of a firearm. The same for anyone caught selling illegal guns. And a mandatory lifetime ban of ever owning a gun.

2. A complete ban on all assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

3. Extensive background checks on all perspective gun buyers that includes everyone living in their household, both criminal and mental. If one person in that household does not pass the background check, no guns.

4. Limit the amount of guns one person can own. One handgun, one shotgun, one rifle (non-semi automatic for hunting purposes only).

5. Mandatory "no questions asked" gun buy back program for everyone. It can possibly be done as a tax deduction for those folks on the up & up.

6. Mandatory registration of all guns owned by every gun owner.

7. A nationwide gun law, not state to state.

The above can be implimented immediately and will provide results much sooner than a nationwide overhaul of the economy and the mental healtyh system. Once we become serious about getting these guns off the street, then we can then start on a nationwide program to get our neighborhoods stabil and look into the causes of the mental health problems that we face today.

I thought no one on this board ever talked about an "assault weapons ban" . and why do I keep bringing it up

[spookyturtle 9,465]

#3. If you don't believe that we have the resources for more intense background checks, I'm not sure how you intend to impliment your plan at all. Could you explain how your plan can be funded but background checks cannot?

#4. Yes, people will have to pick one gun from each category I mentioned and turn the rest in by a certain date. First offense for not doing this could be a hefty fine, after that it falls into the category of posessing an illegal firearm, 10 years in jail.

#5. Nothing voluntary about the turn ins/buy backs. If we're going to be serious about this and fix it, it needs to be mandatory.

#6. Again, get caught with an illegal weapon, 10 years.

#7. To my knowledge, all countries with effective gun control laws have nationwide laws, not state to state or province to province.

There is no doubt that mental health is an issue, that needs to be adressed, but will take many years, probably decades, and a whole lot of money.

#3 You're proposing top security clearance like background checks which take time and manpower. Understood. That helps to weed out the new psychos. What about the other 100+ million current gun owners? Honestly I have no idea how to implement my plan and obviously the Feds don't either as the problem has been building for decades. We need education. We need to get able bodied people off of welfare- as far as this one goes, I have a suggestion. Why not have those who are able perform community work to earn their benefit. Pick up trash along the streets, shovel snow off of sidewalk, clean up a park or pond, etc.

#4. Basically impossible to enforce. I believe you'd have some compliance, no doubt but enormous resistance. There is zero chance that would ever get passed in the next few decades.

#5 Never happen. Make it mandatory to participate in a buyback/turn in program? I don't see this happening either.

#6 Fine. Impose penalties on those who knowingly break the law. How good of a deterrent are the laws against illegal possession doing today? Does the crack dealer on the street corner care? How well does the death penalty work as a crime deterrent? States with the death penalty actually have a higher crime rate than those without.

I think you need to change the Constitution to do what you and many others have proposed. IMO, you will never see guns taken away from legal owners without a Constitution change. And no politician is going to run and support taking guns away from current owners. Not in this lifetime anyway. The Supreme Court has upheld the Second Amendment in recent years. I don't see it happening.

And if you did all that you propose, the core of the problem remains there. Mental health, lack of education, poverty, welfare state, etc. Maybe my idea would encounter less opposition? It would be costly for sure and take a decade to get underway. But I bet it would be easier than passing the legislation which you propose. The best you're going to get is a President who will be for an assault weapon ban. I don't see Obama or anyone else standing up and saying you must turn in your guns to meet certain requirements. They can make it harder to get new ones, but the old ones aren't going to go away. IMO, of course.

[Teddy B 17,251]

#3 You're proposing top security clearance like background checks which take time and manpower. Understood. That helps to weed out the new psychos. What about the other 100+ million current gun owners? Honestly I have no idea how to implement my plan and obviously the Feds don't either as the problem has been building for decades. We need education. We need to get able bodied people off of welfare- as far as this one goes, I have a suggestion. Why not have those who are able perform community work to earn their benefit. Pick up trash along the streets, shovel snow off of sidewalk, clean up a park or pond, etc.

#4. Basically impossible to enforce. I believe you'd have some compliance, no doubt but enormous resistance. There is zero chance that would ever get passed in the next few decades.

#5 Never happen. Make it mandatory to participate in a buyback/turn in program? I don't see this happening either.

#6 Fine. Impose penalties on those who knowingly break the law. How good of a deterrent are the laws against illegal possession doing today? Does the crack dealer on the street corner care? How well does the death penalty work as a crime deterrent? States with the death penalty actually have a higher crime rate than those without.

I think you need to change the Constitution to do what you and many others have proposed. IMO, you will never see guns taken away from legal owners without a Constitution change. And no politician is going to run and support taking guns away from current owners. Not in this lifetime anyway. The Supreme Court has upheld the Second Amendment in recent years. I don't see it happening.

And if you did all that you propose, the core of the problem remains there. Mental health, lack of education, poverty, welfare state, etc. Maybe my idea would encounter less opposition? It would be costly for sure and take a decade to get underway. But I bet it would be easier than passing the legislation which you propose. The best you're going to get is a President who will be for an assault weapon ban. I don't see Obama or anyone else standing up and saying you must turn in your guns to meet certain requirements. They can make it harder to get new ones, but the old ones aren't going to go away. IMO, of course.

#3. Start a gun licensing program that goes by birthdates. NH just did a similar program in regards to boat and watercraft licensing. Start licensing each gun owner by the youngest age first and work up in age every year, I believe it took approx. 10 years to get to everyone. Each license would expire after 5 years, at that time the background checks would be done all over again upon license renewal.

I know your intentions are good, as is most folks. There is no easy answer, we all know that. I'm just tired of the gun nuts sitting back and preaching the 2nd Amendment and ignoring all the blood shed going on around them. "Hey, it's America man, land of the free, home of the brave". Well it's also become one of the gun murder capitals of the world.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

#3. Start a gun licensing program that goes by birthdates. NH just did a similar program in regards to boat and watercraft licensing. Start licensing each gun owner by the youngest age first and work up in age every year, I believe it took approx. 10 years to get to everyone. Each license would expire after 5 years, at that time the background checks would be done all over again upon license renewal.

I know your intentions are good, as is most folks. There is no easy answer, we all know that. I'm just tired of the gun nuts sitting back and preaching the 2nd Amendment and ignoring all the blood shed going on around them. "Hey, it's America man, land of the free, home of the brave". Well it's also become one of the gun murder capitals of the world.

Let them start that program in Oakland, St. Louis, Detroit, Washington DC, New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago, Miami and Atlanta and if it works in those cities then they can take it nation wide.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Bad_Daddy

[Teddy B 17,251]

Let them start that program in Oakland, St. Louis, Detroit, Washington DC, New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago, Miami and Atlanta and if it works in those cities then they can take it nation wide.

I wouldn't have a problem with that at all, if there was way to control the trafficking of guns into those cities. That's why I believe there needs to be a nationwide law, it's just too easy to go across state lines and get weapons.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Let them start that program in Oakland, St. Louis, Detroit, Washington DC, New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago, Miami and Atlanta and if it works in those cities then they can take it nation wide.

The problem isn't the guns, it's the crime in those areas. There are plenty of places that have a lot of guns but very few gun related death. If you clean up the places, and then work on getting the guns off the street you might get somewhere.

[natty bumppo 289]

The problem isn't the guns, it's the crime in those areas. There are plenty of places that have a lot of guns but very few gun related death. If you clean up the places, and then work on getting the guns off the street you might get somewhere.

clean up the places and a gun will no longer be as issue (see bold)

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

1. A mandatory 10 year sentence for anyone that is illegaly in posession of a firearm. The same for anyone caught selling illegal guns. And a mandatory lifetime ban of ever owning a gun. ~ I don't really have a problem with this as long as gun laws are simplified. At the moment, it can be fairly easy to have an "illegal configuration" at least here in CA, to the point where police arrest people wrongfully with legal guns.

2. A complete ban on all assault weapons and high capacity magazines. ~this is redundant to No. 4

3. Extensive background checks on all perspective gun buyers that includes everyone living in their household, both criminal and mental. If one person in that household does not pass the background check, no guns. ~how do you determine a household? To date, no one keeps this record.

4. Limit the amount of guns one person can own. One handgun, one shotgun, one rifle (non-semi automatic for hunting purposes only). ~ You have excluded the majority of owners here. What about collector's? There are many valuable firearms from the Crimean War, US Civil War, both world wars etc. This would be an indefensibly narrow interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

5. Mandatory "no questions asked" gun buy back program for everyone. It can possibly be done as a tax deduction for those folks on the up & up. ~ Likely not defensible in court given that private property would not be fairly compensated for.

6. Mandatory registration of all guns owned by every gun owner. ~ Might be possible, no comment really

7. A nationwide gun law, not state to state. ~ agree

The above can be implimented immediately and will provide results much sooner than a nationwide overhaul of the economy and the mental healtyh system. Once we become serious about getting these guns off the street, then we can then start on a nationwide program to get our neighborhoods stabil and look into the causes of the mental health problems that we face today.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Usui Takumi

[Teddy B 17,251]

#3. Same household = same physical adress. I believe the census bureau would have a list.

#4. There could be a special category for collectors. Special license and storage requirements. I believe Canada has something similar in place now.

#5. I get that private property might not be fairly compensated for, but those are the breaks sometimes. (FEMA just did a remap of the flood zones in my area. My house was never in a mandatory flood zone before, now it is. Guess who has to shell out at least 2K a year for flood insurance now? Not to mention the hit I'm gonna take on the re-sale value.) These things happen.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Teddy B

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

#3. Same household = same physical adress. I believe the census bureau would have a list. (They don't, just a number of people as of 2010...no details beyond race etc.)

#4. There could be a special category for collectors. Special license and storage requirements. I believe Canada has something similar in place now.

#5. I get that private property might not be fairly compensated for, but those are the breaks sometimes. (FEMA just did a remap of the flood zones in my area. My house was never in a mandatory flood zone before, now it is. Guess who has to shell out at least 2K a year for flood insurance now? Not to mention the hit I'm gonna take on the re-sale value.) These things happen. (Its actually a legal issue that must be overcome. For instance such a law would run into trouble by offering 500 USD for a 3,000USD rifle. Can the US government afford such a buy back?)

Edited January 9, 2013 by Usui Takumi