Differences

[mistymaiden 0]

I was just wondering if any of the other MENA gals had problems this debate season with their hubbies? We've been getting into lots of arguments about the differences between Republican and Democratic values. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, so of course I hear alot of derogatory things about Homosexuals and other things coming out of my husband's mouth. I don't want to argue about it, yet I feel strongly about the subject and want him to know my opinion is just as important as his.

Any tips from you guys?

[NY_BX 397]

I was just wondering if any of the other MENA gals had problems this debate season with their hubbies? We've been getting into lots of arguments about the differences between Republican and Democratic values. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, so of course I hear alot of derogatory things about Homosexuals and other things coming out of my husband's mouth. I don't want to argue about it, yet I feel strongly about the subject and want him to know my opinion is just as important as his.

Any tips from you guys?

I'm a hard core liberal. My now husband has always called himself a liberal. Now, mind you, I always had my third eye wide open because what's liberal in the US is not necessarily liberal in Egypt- or anywhere else for that matter. So, to test the waters one of my first questions when we met was about homosexuals. Had he said something derogatory against them I would've never pursued the relationship; I'm bisexual. That said, I noticed his rhetoric was the bible thumping old fashioned excuses why not to like the behavior. It was a little easier for me to show my point of view: it's personal. So I explained to him in 1st person why his notion of what we are is wrong and unfounded. I can tell at first he was uncomfortable, but that went away rather quickly. Once he landed here, I introduced him to some people. I never told him their sexual orientation. He discovered that, the one person that helped him get a job and helped him a lot in other things, is gay. He calls him his true friend. It's about exposure.

As far as the rest of the ideals he is all the way democrat. He absolutely despises Romney with every cell of his being. When he heard Todd Akin he was disgusted beyond belief. That was very genuine. I just let those idiots show their true colors and have my husband watch them. Again, it's about exposure.

My best advise is giving him the exposure he needs to at least understand your point of view. You can't convert anyone. I will say this, like I stated before, if he would've said he hated the LGBTT community or simply stated a core belief system different than mine (not spiritual- that's another thing), I would've never pursued the relationship. But that's just me....

[nurse1967 287]

We are just the opposite. I am a card carrying Republican and he is liberal. The only exception is that he is also pro-life and I have more liberal views towards homosexuals. We have just agreed to disagree and generally don't talk about politics. Sometimes it's just easier that way.

[Rae Anne 44]

For me both Romney and Obama are awful. Two sides of the same damn coin. If I vote it will be for Jill Stein. My fiance thinks Obama is the lesser evil and would vote for him if he were a USC. Though my fiance is from a very traditional society even by Arab standards he has very liberal, even leftist values. Some of these beliefs he had all along and others were learned. When I met him he was pretty hostile towards homosexuals but over time I wore him down and now he thinks everyone has the right to pursue their own happiness. It was just a product of his up-bringing. But once he started traveling and being exposed to different ideas and cultures there was no turning back.

There are certainly some topics we tend to stay away from but for the most part we always respect each other's opinions even when we disagree. It's not easy we both can be argumentative! But I think agreeing on the more important aspects of life - goals, values, etc are far more important than the superficial stuff.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Rae Anne

[RFQ 110]

Its simple for us, lol, we agree to disagree. Sometimes I think we agree more than it seems at first as things get lost in translation. I think its one of the many good things about our relationship, is that we can discuss things, heated things, but neither of us is inclined to take it personal when we disagree. I can tell him I think he's out of his mind and vice versa, and we laugh it off. It has taken me a bit to get used to his view of the US (not our people, but policy) that I am not used to hearing-- as in world politics/ foreign policy mostly. I've definitely had to reevaluate my views and make them more broad.

Before we even began talking about moving forward with an engagement, we tackled all the major issues. Once we knew we were compatible with those things, the rest we can work through.

Edited October 6, 2012 by RFQ

[Rae Anne 44]

Meh.. the time window for editing posts on here isn't long enough.

I wasn't trying to say the rights of GLBT individuals are superficial, they certainly aren't. Maybe try reminding your husband that anyone in his life could be gay and he wouldn't know it. A boss, a good friend, etc. Would his opinion of that person change if he found out? Would he sever his relationship with them if they turned out to not be straight? In my opinion we are all children of God and all made in his image. We have a shared humanity that no one can deny. He doesn't have to approve of "alternative" lifestyles but he does have to recognize that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, especially you.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Marrying a homophobe is like a dealbreaker for me, that's decidedly like just, no.

I put that on a different level than say, agreeing to disagree with my husband about govt subsidies for solar wind power, or how he feels about the city council's decision to fluoridate Portland's water supply. But that's just basic human decency to me, not politics.

The same holds true for warmongering.

Edited October 6, 2012 by sandinista!

[sandinista! 1,816]

These are all well and nice, but they're more akin to the life lessons I'm imparting to my 11 year old, not a grown up man in 2012.

I'm not trying to be whatever, but having read this board for a long time, I've seen some crazy stuff people just take as a matter of course because they married a guy from this part of the planet. There's been a woman here who wound up married to a guy who thought FGM was hunky dory FFS. Entirely too many people set the bar really low, and it's just weird and sad. I guess I just don't get the 'oopsie, I married a bigot. Now how do we get along?' scenario.

Meh.. the time window for editing posts on here isn't long enough.

I wasn't trying to say the rights of GLBT individuals are superficial, they certainly aren't. Maybe try reminding your husband that anyone in his life could be gay and he wouldn't know it. A boss, a good friend, etc. Would his opinion of that person change if he found out? Would he sever his relationship with them if they turned out to not be straight? In my opinion we are all children of God and all made in his image. We have a shared humanity that no one can deny. He doesn't have to approve of "alternative" lifestyles but he does have to recognize that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, especially you.

[Staashi 371]

These are all well and nice, but they're more akin to the life lessons I'm imparting to my 11 year old, not a grown up man in 2012.

I'm not trying to be whatever, but having read this board for a long time, I've seen some crazy stuff people just take as a matter of course because they married a guy from this part of the planet. There's been a woman here who wound up married to a guy who thought FGM was hunky dory FFS. Entirely too many people set the bar really low, and it's just weird and sad. I guess I just don't get the 'oopsie, I married a bigot. Now how do we get along?' scenario.

I so you! Amen! Being engaged to a bigoted a-hole would have been the sign for me to pull my panties back up. Just saying.

[NY_BX 397]

Marrying a homophobe is like a dealbreaker for me, that's decidedly like just, no.

I put that on a different level than say, agreeing to disagree with my husband about govt subsidies for solar wind power, or how he feels about the city council's decision to fluoridate Portland's water supply. But that's just basic human decency to me, not politics.

The same holds true for warmongering.

I went on this fantastic date once, I'll say about 8 years ago. It's by far the most interesting date ever. Let's start with the location: Texas. So, I met this great guy and he asked me out. We have dinner and we hit it off really well. At the end of the dinner, he says: "you have 2 options, we can call it a night or we can carry on." I chose to carry on. He says: "alright, you chose the restaurant, I'll choose the bar." I said: "fair enough as long as it's walking distance." We were downtown Austin, parking sucks. So, we walk to this bar/ country club: it was a country lesbian bar. In the beginning I swear my thoughts were "he doesn't want other men to see me" or something like that. I ordered a beer and paid the tab for both of us, it was only fair. We start talking and 2 ladies approach us. Clearly we looked out of place, but didn't care. We started talking to them and had a great time. Suddenly they start playing salsa! One of the ladies grabs my hand and we go dance. That was so much fun! And the guy was looking at me with this satisfied smile of relief. That to me was weird, but cute. He didn't look like he was having fun, but that he was proud (I hope I'm being clear).

We end the 'show' and we walk around the bar. At the end of the night, or better said, early morning, he looks at me and says: "I brought you here because I wanted to see how comfortable you were. My sister was a lesbian and was a victim of a hate crime. I didn't mean to test you, it really wasn't a test. I just wanted to know if I'll be happy with your happiness around the LGBTT community." I hugged him and the rest is for us to know I moved out of Austin so we didn't continue the relationship.

I highly respected that from him, I really did. He wanted to respect his family and not bring bigoted people. To him it was a deal-breaker, so why even start?

[NY_BX 397]

These are all well and nice, but they're more akin to the life lessons I'm imparting to my 11 year old, not a grown up man in 2012.

I'm not trying to be whatever, but having read this board for a long time, I've seen some crazy stuff people just take as a matter of course because they married a guy from this part of the planet. There's been a woman here who wound up married to a guy who thought FGM was hunky dory FFS. Entirely too many people set the bar really low, and it's just weird and sad. I guess I just don't get the 'oopsie, I married a bigot. Now how do we get along?' scenario.

I agree, marrying a bigot is like marrying a child that needs maaaaad education. Too much work, unnecessarily.

[Rae Anne 44]

These are all well and nice, but they're more akin to the life lessons I'm imparting to my 11 year old, not a grown up man in 2012.

I'm not trying to be whatever, but having read this board for a long time, I've seen some crazy stuff people just take as a matter of course because they married a guy from this part of the planet. There's been a woman here who wound up married to a guy who thought FGM was hunky dory FFS. Entirely too many people set the bar really low, and it's just weird and sad. I guess I just don't get the 'oopsie, I married a bigot. Now how do we get along?' scenario.

Well, she asked for suggestions. That was the only one I had . It seemed to work on my fiance pretty well BUT he was already ready to change his mind about things that had been engrained in him as a child. As it turned out, one of his good friends ended up being gay so he was more equipped to deal with it and they are now closer than they were before. I guess I got lucky and found probably the most liberal/open minded Yemeni there is. If he was any less so, I also wouldn't have pursued a relationship. By the way we were friends for a really long time before we entered a relationship. I had a lot of time to survey him.

That being said I've seen happy couples who are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. Not many but I have seen them. The only time it seems to work is when both people respect each other for their differences.

On another note: Wow. Wow. Under NO circumstances is FGM okay. NO WAY. When my fiance and his friends were in Sudan many years ago I guess they tried dating but found that the sight of it on a woman made them all physically ill. They say any man who allows his wife or daughter to be subjected to that is not a man at all.

[SaharaSunset 165]

The interesting contradiction of people who claim to be "open-minded" is that often, those who profess "open-mindedness" and claim to oppose bigotry, are actually very close minded about people they consider "close-minded" (especially religious folks). In a nutshell, their "open mind" only applies to people they agree with - just like the supposed "close minded bigots" they loathe. So maybe no one is really "liberal" or "open-minded" after all

If you really want to have an open mind, then you have to apply it to ALL people, whatever their views may be. Even people who oppose the homosexual lifestyle are entitled to their own views. What may be perceived as "bigotry" by one person, might be deep religious beliefs to another. Or perhaps someone's stance on a political issue is based on personal "exposure." For example not all people in the LBGT community are kind and good-hearted individuals. They are as capable of offensive treatment or obnoxious behaviors as any human being. Someone may simply have had negative exposure that affected their feelings.

Now that being said, of course derogatory remarks, and hateful behaviors are never okay. But we have to be careful we don't project and see "hate" into the views of people that differ from our own. If we could find a way to honestly respect the views of others, then it would be hard for people on either side of the political spectrum to "hate." I do know its possible respectfully disagree with each other. But hate on either side is not okay, and is not truly being "open-minded".

My husband is not religious at all - I am. I go to church every Sunday and my husband does not. Although neither of us agree with the other on the subject of organized religion, we love each other enough to be able to see that 2 people can differ greatly on very real issues and still be happy. And we are. If my husband had been antagonistic towards religion (as some who claim to be "open-minded" are), it would not have worked. And likewise, if I was always trying to convert him to my religion, or belittling him for lack of "faith," it would also not work. For out marriage, we simply don't engage in debates about it. He respects my choices, and I his. And I think when it comes to politics, sometimes its not a bad idea to do the same. If you love someone, and their views are different, accept it (again, this does not apply to hateful behaviors and language - which can be addressed and changed, without trying to shift their entire opinion.)

Edited October 6, 2012 by SaharaSunset

[kristen_maroc 126]

What an interesting conversation!

I absolutely changed when I went to Morocco. I think that expecting the same level of acceptance that I have of certain things is just asking too much. After all, I have acquaintances who think I am a liberal, socialist, politically-correct-police, crazy person.

But if you think about it, growing up in the US, we had:

- Civil rights movement

- Women's rights movement/feminist movement

- Gay rights movement

We were taught about Christmas, Hannukah, and Kwanzaa in school. Our teachings were (mostly) secular. Our lexicon talks about religion by saying "I believe," instead of "this is the (only) truth."

We grew up with multi-cultural appreciation in school. We learned about diversity and have diversity training. Homosexuality isn't illegal. We have sexual harassment laws.

Most people in MENA have spent their life in a country that is an Islamic republic/kingdom, where 99.5% of the population is of one religion, where there's never been a civil right's movement, or a gay rights movement or laws protecting against discrimination... or a need in schools to teach that we value diversity. Religion is taught and integrated in schools. There's not as much of a tradition of questioning the status quo (in certain respects, but not all!).

If I grew up like this, I don't know how "open" I would be. I do see a lot of it as (understandable) ignorance and lack of exposure.

What matters to me is how my husband treats people. He might not believe the same things as I do, but he's respectful, he treats people with kindness and respect, and is open to things that he might not be comfortable with. We discuss a lot. He and I both are willing to listen and learn.

And that combination: a willingness to learn, discuss, share, and go back to religious texts and have a respectful debate... combined with his unwavering respect and kindness? It's enough.

[Cathi 5,609]

I don't think in any marriage couples will agree on everything 100% of the time, that would make for boring life. But marrying someone who is a bigot or racist just wouldn't fly with me, especially since I have LGB people in my family, people of color, and just about every religion(I think the only religion not in my family is Buddist). There just isn't any room in my life for anyone who is judgemental/closeminded however you want to say it. As my husband says "I don;t care what anyone else does and how they live as long as they bother me." By the way, my husband received his visa in hand today and he will be arriving here this Friday the 12th!!!