Am I an ILLEGAL alien?!

[grrrrreat 109]

The USA is not a democracy either. They are a republic...quite a different thing...just an FYI.

Being able to come over and adjust our status without an I-94 ect does not preclude us from being required to follow the law. In other words we cannot lie at the border about our intentions.

So would it be a violation of TOS to recommend it to all Canadians? Yes...because it is not the route for all Canadians. It is only an option for those that have come here and decided after entry to stay. That same thing applies to all those who AOS regardless of country...

I assume you might want to become a U.S. citizen one day, so you should know that the U.S. is both a democracy and a republic. They are distinct concepts but they are not exclusive. Republics are democracies where power is delegated to elected representatives and exercised on behalf of the people. We do this by electing Congressional representatives and a President.

In addition, each of the fifty states is a sovereign, democratic state with a republican form of government.

The U.S. is a lot of other things too, like a federation of sovereign states, constitutional state and Presidential republic. They're not exclusive terms; we can be all of these things.

[dwheels76 5,463]

I know for me personally, the reason I am going the CR-1 route is because it is the only legal way I know how. If I were to enter and we just decided to stay last minute I might change to AOS, but I don't think that'll happen because of reason number 2, that is I need to be able to work while I wait to get the visa. I would have to take 3 months off to wait for EAD and my wife and I just could not afford that.

It has nothing to do with the North American Free Trade Agreement. That's more about people working in certain occupations in the US who are from Canada.

We're just treated differently because of our relationship with the US. It's something that doesn't exist between other countries. Could be because much of Canada has ancestors from America and England. Canadians in Canada's early years were really just loyalist Americans (Americans who were offered land by England in exchange for allegiance to the British monarchy). As the years went by we kept our identity as Canadians after of the war of 1812. Afterwards, when we became sovereign with our constitutional monarchy, we eventually became very similar nations. Although we had different views on the monarchy, none of that means anything today, because Canada, while not being a democracy (we are called a constitutional monarchy) still offers a democratic way to vote for leaders and create laws, etc..

Anyways, because of our close proximity and similar economies and societies, we are seen as a low threat and as great friends with the US. Closer than any other two nations.

well you forgot your are just nice peeps.

[jdh 103]

I assume you might want to become a U.S. citizen one day, so you should know that the U.S. is both a democracy and a republic. They are distinct concepts but they are not exclusive. Republics are democracies where power is delegated to elected representatives and exercised on behalf of the people. We do this by electing Congressional representatives and a President.

In addition, each of the fifty states is a sovereign, democratic state with a republican form of government.

The U.S. is a lot of other things too, like a federation of sovereign states, constitutional state and Presidential republic. They're not exclusive terms; we can be all of these things.

Uh uh...I pledge a legiance go the flag of the United States of American and to the REPUBLIC of which it stands.

The difference was important to the founding fathers...

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, pp. 388-389.

Check out this article and many others on the topic some time...

http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html

Back to topic....

Edited June 30, 2012 by jdh

[grrrrreat 109]

Uh uh...I pledge a legiance go the flag of the United States of American and to the REPUBLIC of which it stands.

The difference was important to the founding fathers...

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, pp. 388-389.

Check out this article and many others on the topic some time...

http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html

Back to topic....

You're completely missing the point. See the part about a democracy being when "sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation". That exactly describes the U.S. The U.S. is a republic and a democracy. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence provide that sovereign power resides in the "the people". See how a democracy is distinguished from a "monarchy, aristocracy or oligarchy"--the U.S. is none of those things.

That article isn't from a reputable source and it's not accurate.

If you tell your interviewer at your naturalization interview that the U.S. is not a democracy, you're going to fail that question.

[jdh 103]

You're completely missing the point. See the part about a democracy being when "sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation". That exactly describes the U.S. The U.S. is a republic and a democracy. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence provide that sovereign power resides in the "the people". See how a democracy is distinguished from a "monarchy, aristocracy or oligarchy"--the U.S. is none of those things.

That article isn't from a reputable source and it's not accurate.

If you tell your interviewer at your naturalization interview that the U.S. is not a democracy, you're going to fail that question.

Bull #######. I am not missing the point.

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626

THAT is how the US government was designed to operate. The founding fathers were very much against so called 'democracy'. They are very similar and very different.

Notice that in a Democracy, the sovereignty is in the whole body of the free citizens. The sovereignty is not divided to smaller units such as individual citizens. To solve a problem, only the whole body politic is authorized to act. Also, being citizens, individuals have duties and obligations to the government. The government's only obligations to the citizens are those legislatively pre-defined for it by the whole body politic.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides in the people themselves, whether one or many. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives as he chooses to solve a problem. Further, the people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government being hired by the people, is obliged to its owner, the PEOPLE. "WE the PEOPLE."

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

http://www.c4cg.org/republic.htm

There is another couple links, but I am sure any source that doesn't agree with your side of a debate is instantly defined as "not reputable"...I've met folks that debate like you before.

So, how about you focus on your opinion and I will stick to knowing the truth about US history and the way the county was formed. You can join those who try to manipulate the constitution into saying things it was never intended to say and I will stick to fighting you tooth and bone to maintain its integrirty.

As to the 'test' - I assure you I will be fine, not that it is any of your concern. I've never failed a test in my life, and that one will not be the first.

Edited June 30, 2012 by jdh

[grrrrreat 109]

Bull #######. I am not missing the point.

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626

THAT is how the US government was designed to operate. The founding fathers were very much against so called 'democracy'. They are very similar and very different.

Notice that in a Democracy, the sovereignty is in the whole body of the free citizens. The sovereignty is not divided to smaller units such as individual citizens. To solve a problem, only the whole body politic is authorized to act. Also, being citizens, individuals have duties and obligations to the government. The government's only obligations to the citizens are those legislatively pre-defined for it by the whole body politic.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides in the people themselves, whether one or many. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives as he chooses to solve a problem. Further, the people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government being hired by the people, is obliged to its owner, the PEOPLE. "WE the PEOPLE."

How about you focus on your opinion and I will stick to knowing the truth about US history and the way the county was formed. You can join those who try to manipulate the constitution into saying things it was never intended to say and I will stick to fighting you tooth and bone to maintain its integrirty.

As to the 'test' - I assure you I will be fine, not that it is any of your concern. I've never failed a test in my life, and that one will not be the first.

Sorry your view of U.S. history is not persuasive, and you're drawing a meaningless distinction where none exists. Your suggestion that I'm attacking the constitution because I disagree that the U.S. is not a "democracy" is ludicrous. The idea that you've figured out that the founders meant our country to be a "Republic" and not a democracy is not supported by history of that time, and it's certainly not supported by the two centuries of history that came after it. The citation you have doesn't mean what you think it means.

I am not sure who you're trying to lump me in with when you say I am "manipulating the constitution".

Quotes:

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.

Abraham Lincoln

Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.

Ronald Reagan

Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

Edited June 30, 2012 by grrrrreat

[jdh 103]

Sorry your view of U.S. history is not persuasive, and you're drawing a meaningless distinction where none exists. Your suggestion that I'm attacking the constitution because I disagree that the U.S. is not a "democracy" is ludicrous. The idea that you've figured out that the founders meant our country to be a "Republic" and not a democracy is not supported by history of that time, and it's certainly not supported by the two centuries of history that came after it. The citation you have doesn't mean what you think it means.

I am not sure who you're trying to lump me in with when you say I am "manipulating the constitution".

There is no meaningless distinction.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The US is a democratic republic. It's a republic because it is governed by a select group who represent the interests of the people. It is democratic because those who govern are elected by a popular vote of the governed, rather than being appointed. Most states are more democratic than the federal government because the people can directly enact laws through the ballot measure process, but states are still republics because they are governed by a select group rather than directly by the people themselves.

The founding fathers thought a republic alone would lead to elitism and tyranny, while democracy alone was essentially mob rule. There was little argument that the US should be a democratic republic, but there was much debate over how much the government should lean one way or the other.

Curiously, "Republican" implies one who believes the governing body should have more power and authority, while "Democrat" implies one who believes the government's power and authority should be restricted and the power reserved for the people. The general belief of the modern Republic and Democrat parties is almost the opposite of what their name implies they should be.

[newlyweds2010 208]

Civic education 101:

'Republic' is a form of government, as opposed, for instance, to a monarchy (the UK, Spain, etc.). The US is a republic ('and to the republic for which it stands').

Democracy refers to how the powers are exercised. In a democracy ('Demos Kratos', 'Power to the People') they are exercised by and on behalf of the people, who are given certain rights, including the right to vote their representatives, as opposed to an 'Oligarchy' ('Power of the few'), or a dictatorship. The US is also a democracy ('We the People', remember?).

Democracy and Republic can go together, and as a matter of fact they do in most of the western world (Germany, Italy, Austria, Brazil, Argentina, the US).

Then, we should only celebrate the fact that the US is not officially called "Democratic Republic" or "Popular Republic" of the United States. Generally, those countries that adopt such name, as a matter of fact are not very democratic (the former Eastern Germany, North Korea, the former Communist Romania, and some other villains here and there).

Edited June 30, 2012 by newlyweds2010

[jkb11 26]

To be precise, the USA is a (constitutional) federal republic based on a democratic system. Don't confuse with democratic republic (or "people's"), you wouldn't like to see this happen

[jdh 103]

To be precise, the USA is a (constitutional) federal republic based on a democratic system. Don't confuse with democratic republic (or "people's"), you wouldn't like to see this happen

Indeed.

[jdh 103]

Civic education 101:

'Republic' is a form of government, as opposed, for instance, to a monarchy (the UK, Spain, etc.). The US is a republic ('and to the republic for which it stands').

Democracy refers to how the powers are exercised. In a democracy ('Demos Kratos', 'Power to the People') they are exercised by and on behalf of the people, who are given certain rights, including the right to vote their representatives, as opposed to an 'Oligarchy' ('Power of the few'), or a dictatorship. The US is also a democracy ('We the People', remember?).

Democracy and Republic can go together, and as a matter of fact they do in most of the western world (Germany, Italy, Austria, Brazil, Argentina, the US).

Then, we should only celebrate the fact that the US is not officially called "Democratic Republic" or "Popular Republic" of the United States. Generally, those countries that adopt such name, as a matter of fact are not very democratic (the former Eastern Germany, North Korea, the former Communist Romania, and some other villains here and there).

The rights only exist because it is a republic and not a democracy. With a democracy there would be no constitutional protection of rights for the people from other people and government alike.

You may want to refrain from teaching until you get it completely down.

[newlyweds2010 208]

The rights only exist because it is a republic and not a democracy. With a democracy there would be no constitutional protection of rights for the people from other people and government alike.

You may want to refrain from teaching until you get it completely down.

Not sure I understand your statement (the one in bold). Why would there be no constitutional protection of rights with a democracy?

In any event, although technically speaking there is no "democracy" sticker to apply to our bumpers, the word "democracy" comes to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. The US government is operated as a representative democracy by a congress. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy. From the CIA website (cia.gov): Republic - a representative democracy in which the people's elected deputies (representatives), not the people themselves, vote on legislation.

[jdh 103]

Not sure I understand your statement (the one in bold). Why would there be no constitutional protection of rights with a democracy?

In any event, although technically speaking there is no "democracy" sticker to apply to our bumpers, the word "democracy" comes to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. The US government is operated as a representative democracy by a congress. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy. From the CIA website (cia.gov): Republic - a representative democracy in which the people's elected deputies (representatives), not the people themselves, vote on legislation.

Your problem is in not understanding what a true democracy is...watch the video link I posted to get a more clear idea. The United States is NOT a representative democracy it is a representative republic.

I don't really care how the CIA defines the word...I look to the original interpretations and the founding fathers.

[grrrrreat 109]

Your problem is in not understanding what a true democracy is...watch the video link I posted to get a more clear idea. The United States is NOT a representative democracy it is a representative republic.

I don't really care how the CIA defines the word...I look to the original interpretations and the founding fathers.

We've seen your sources and we don't agree with them. The first link you sent appears to have been a political blog and not a blog or website about history or political science. I would encourage you to broaden your readings a little bit and perhaps seek out sources that don't necessarily confirm but instead challenge your views.

I think you are also manufacturing a distinction that doesn't exist. Even if you could support the notion that the founding fathers didn't intend the constitution to provide pure democracy, our view (and the constitution) have changed since then. Certainly the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments (that resulted from the Civil War) brought about universal adult citizenship and suffrage--which is surely the hallmark of democracy. It is beyond clear that persons individually have rights but also that the body of citizens has the right to self-determination and majoritarian government. I think you think because the government is limited by the constitution it means that it's not a democracy--but even those limits could be changed through democratic process, like the constitutional amending process, which requires a direct vote of the people (in conventions or legislatures).

The video you posted is meaningless, politlcally-motivated tripe.

Edited July 1, 2012 by grrrrreat