Did I Overreact?

[AmyWrites 593]

My mother, a very white Hispanic woman (Puerto Rican, so she has had US citizenship since birth... just, being they don't speak English 24/7, they have an accent), went through very similar stuff all the time when we lived in NC... it's not about being white or brown, it's just pure old xenophobia. I'd pursue legal action if just to scare her. But I think Darnell's idea is the best.

[evelyn1140 18]

I'm pregnant and hormones could of had something to do with it, but I honestly do not think it, even after hours of it happening. And sorry for the length.

Early this morning I went to the SSN office to have my Social changed to my married name, no problem what so ever there. They just asked for my Green card and that was it.

After that, because of my husbands job, we went apartment hunting to a new city. At the one we were applying to, everything seemed fine. They asked for my social security and my greencard, which have different last names (I applied for the new one just today). Then is when the fishy stuff started happening, they gave me this form to sign where I had to place if I had any USCIS pending process, what number it was and when. I told them I had nothing pending with the USCIS since I had my greencard with me. The lady said I just had to choose one and sign. To this point she randomly chose one without even looking and told me to sign. I said "NO. I will not sign this, I know which one I applied for, but I have nothing pending. I have my green card in hand and will not sign anything." She called her colleague to help her out, she told her she thought I was right and should not sign anything, but the other lady was BEYOND RUDE! She looked at my papers and at me in such a condescending way and said: "This SSN is no good, it's no good, she doesn't even show a passport here" and she asked without looking at me: "Your passport?". I said I had a passport but I did not see the need of showing it if I had a green card with me. She then started getting annoyed and asked me if I had a TX ID, and I replied I did not. She asked me this several times... and asked me in the most rude way why not and when I was to get one. I told her I was going to soon, but that I was not under any law pressured to get one. She then looked at me in the most condescending way and asked me by just pointing the finger at my SSN: "IS THIS EVEN YOURS?" I asked her: "Why would I carry with me somebody else's SSN, that's Illegal!!!!!" and she answered: "Well, A LOT OF PEOPLE DO IT?" In the most sarcastic tone, without looking at me! I then said: BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE DO IT DOESN'T MEAN I DO IT! And stamped my letter from the Social Security office that CONFIRMED the social security was mine, and the OTHER letter showing them that I had a just requested a change of name on my social security number to my married name to the table (I had them with me because, again, I had gone to the office that same day). and told her while I was shaking in rage: I CAN SUE YOU FOR ASKING ME SUCH A QUESTION!(I don't even know if I can or not, but I felt so judged, I felt like somebody was accusing me from stealing, from being a criminal, I had never felt that way before!) She then startled at my reply and walked away to call her manager. But that time I was ready to walk out the door, I didn't want to be there anymore. The manager came back and said her agents had a job to know if there was somebody being illegal there, because they couldn't accept them (Is it even possible for them to be making such distinctions? Isn't that HLS's job?). I told her again that they couldn't make such accusations so fast and ask things like that to people. She then told me that they needed some type of ID that showed my maiden name with my picture on it. I then took out my passport and told her: "If that other lady had just said that, I would of gladly taken it out, but she INSULTED me first without really explaining what you needed. I would never ask you if the car you are using is yours or stolen, that would be an insult towards you. I am no fraud, I have papers and that should be sufficient." She didn't really seem to see any error on what her agent had done or asked me (but she did call her into her office and closed the door), though the one that had originally worked our case was saying sorry with her lips, in a silent way. After they were in the office she said she was sure she was in there because it wasn't the first time she had treated people that way. She said I had not over reacted at all and that she was even very shocked at the way she had asked me something like that, but I still feel like I need to know what my rights are.

Can anybody anywhere ask you stuff like that over your SSN? Was I wrong to react this way? Will I be subject to scrutinizing reactions every time to see if I'm legal or not? Should I just learn how to deal with it? Is it normal?

Thank you for your inputs, sorry for the grammar, orthographic mistakes, and length of the post.

Diana

Welcome to America

[Removed-02242014 19]

Remember - every story has two sides and my guess is that her side will be entirely different. Property managers are under such scrutiny these days for privacy and citizenship laws that some of them have become too police-like. Discrimination from an apartment complex is serious stuff in the fair-housing act so their paperwork needs to be spot-on.

And to be honest with you ... so many people DO try to cheat the system with fake identification. It's ridiculous! What do they look like? They look like you and me and sometimes even wear expensive clothing too. You can never tell who is trying to defraud the system.

By the way -- You can't sue them for asking those questions. It is their ballpark and they get to protect themselves.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Mark-n-Luz

[Caryh 5,206]

Yes she was rude. I don't blame you for taking offense. Did you over react? Maybe, just because someone is being rude, doesn't mean you have to go to their level. I know its hard not to sometimes, and this woman probably deserved it. Her demanding you sign and agree to something that was not true wasn't getting things off to a good start. If you can manage to take the high ground, you'll usually find you're better off in the end. Also if they continue to be rude idiots when you're keeping calm, I find you can generally sneak in a perfectly polite comment that will embarrass them and point out their rude behavior.

You can sue who ever you want, actually winning a suit is a different matter. Rather than filing a suit, I'd put in a complaint with the housing authority and write a politely written letter to the owner or management of the business outlining your displeasure at the rude treatment received by this woman.

[Diana and Chris 25]

It sounds like she was confused by the two names and wanted to see photo ID (your passport) in either name to confirm it was your SSN (especially having 2 different names). I think you were overreacting to her asking for picture ID, but the following conversation was inappropriate.

That's my take on it anyway.

Of course I was confused, she never explained why she wanted a passport for. It had to be the manager who explained.

[NY_BX 397]

I didn't read all the replies, so I apologize if any posters said what I will say.

I lived in Houston TX and lasted 3 months. It was an immediate dislike to the city and the way they treat us- Hispanic/ Latinos. I moved to Austin, TX (I was diligent looking for a transfer and was able to move rather quickly) and the difference is from hell to heaven. So, yes, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso are great areas to live in within Texas... but that's about it.

It's hard to be in a city where discriminatory attitudes are welcomed and even encouraged. That goes beyond the color of our skin; it's not that superficial. My husband is as white as snow.... until he opens his mouth. Then he is the arab that may, or may not, hurt you (I'm measuring my words... if you get my point). I'm the Puertorican that may, or may not, be the overly-sexual violent thug.

.....and we live in Manhattan.

So, no, you didn't overreact. In fact, congrats for putting your foot down and somewhat saying "enough is enough!"

[Diana and Chris 25]

He didn't mean to say 'Spurz' - he meant to say Go Mavericks!

but I digress.

whilst there are fair housing laws both at the state and federal level , there are also COUNTY regulations and CITY regulations that must be followed. The illegal immigrant population is just cross the border, the county line, in South Irving. Arlington doesn't want them, so they have local laws on the books that , if broken, cause the apartment management company to pay some stiff fines.

IMO, you got an 'mas grande cuolo' and it's up to you to put her in her place. The best way, IMO, is to write a letter, fully documenting what transpired, and submit it to the property owner and ask politely that your letter be put into her HR file as a sign of verbal harrassment.

There are many apartment complexes in Arlington. But have you guys looked into leasing a house in the cheaper spots, also ?

Good Luck, how ever it turns out.

Taken into consideration. Thanks.

Yes, we have seen into houses, but for now we felt like an apartment complex was the best way, since I'm alone most of the time.

[Diana and Chris 25]

Both the agent and you were overreacting. They should have explained why a photo id like the passport is required. Maybe the agent could have been nicer about it. Also realize that even US born citizens have to go through hoops just to get mortgages lately. I know, I went through it two years ago. Her question about the SSN is blatently stupid. Like you really are going to admit to wrongdoing (if you really were). It is their job to make sure they do not have illegal aliens there. It is not their job to discriminate. You are bing told you should sue; do you really believe that you can? You weren't denied so it's kind of hard to prove you were discriminated against if you weren't denied.

I'm still considering all possibilities, like I said, I do not know if I can even sue, I'm reading into it. I did mention to my husband yesterday that I wish to see the outcome of applying, (because we did finish applying, I showed her my passport and it was all easy from there) and if denied ask their reasons for it and go from there. I am, though, considering the letter no matter what results they have for me.

[Diana and Chris 25]

Remember - every story has two sides and my guess is that her side will be entirely different. Property managers are under such scrutiny these days for privacy and citizenship laws that some of them have become too police-like. Discrimination from an apartment complex is serious stuff in the fair-housing act so their paperwork needs to be spot-on.

And to be honest with you ... so many people DO try to cheat the system with fake identification. It's ridiculous! What do they look like? They look like you and me and sometimes even wear expensive clothing too. You can never tell who is trying to defraud the system.

By the way -- You can't sue them for asking those questions. It is their ballpark and they get to protect themselves.

Because a lot of people do it, it gives them the right to have no manners or polite ways of treating people and asking for things? What ever happened to customer service?

[Lic.Matos 1]

Hi Diana,

intereting story, all I can say to you is that know the laws and your rights in your state, and there are also people who do not know how to deal with the public, I was in the property management buisness for a long time and yes they do need to verify that the documents are legitimate. But for the love of God there are ways to ask for any documentation needed for any housing authority. Not knowing what to do when there is a name change, that must of trigger her behavior and the way you defended yourself (good for you)

[Diana and Chris 25]

Yes she was rude. I don't blame you for taking offense. Did you over react? Maybe, just because someone is being rude, doesn't mean you have to go to their level. I know its hard not to sometimes, and this woman probably deserved it. Her demanding you sign and agree to something that was not true wasn't getting things off to a good start. If you can manage to take the high ground, you'll usually find you're better off in the end. Also if they continue to be rude idiots when you're keeping calm, I find you can generally sneak in a perfectly polite comment that will embarrass them and point out their rude behavior.

You can sue who ever you want, actually winning a suit is a different matter. Rather than filing a suit, I'd put in a complaint with the housing authority and write a politely written letter to the owner or management of the business outlining your displeasure at the rude treatment received by this woman.

Maybe in a normal scenario I would say, what the heck, she deserved it. But even if she did, I won't let myself get as enraged as I did yesterday.. but because I'm pregnant, and I shouldn't be letting things get to me like that, so I'll try to keep what you wrote in mind too, although I never did yell at her, I just said it very bluntly and direct, but I was shaking...

[Teddy B 17,251]

Because a lot of people do it, it gives them the right to have no manners or polite ways of treating people and asking for things? What ever happened to customer service?

Fortunately there are no laws against rudeness, nor is rudeness grounds for a lawsuit, otherwise our court system would be crippled. You were treated rudely by an employee of a company who was offering a service/goods for a price (in this case an apartment), your recourse is to not give your money to that company and take your business elsewhere. You can report the employee to their supervisor/boss and hope that the company will care enough about the womans bad attitude to do something about it, that's pretty much the only options you have.

Unfortunately people of all shapes, sizes and colors are treated rudely everyday. There's really not much you or I can do about it other than not to let it get the best of you.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I'm pregnant and hormones could of had something to do with it, but I honestly do not think it, even after hours of it happening. And sorry for the length.

Early this morning I went to the SSN office to have my Social changed to my married name, no problem what so ever there. They just asked for my Green card and that was it. [...]

Thank you for your inputs, sorry for the grammar, orthographic mistakes, and length of the post.

Diana

Diana, in my opinion you may have overreacted some but the other person was not entirely forthcoming with you.

It is in the interest of the landlords that they do not rent to illegal aliens. The reasons for which, I trust I need not explain.

In your case, I believe it was the perfect storm - your SSN change request and the ignorance of the person from whom you were seeking to rent the apartment.

Instead of treating you with cynicism it would have served her better to let you know that it looked strange that the names on your SSN and greencard did not match, for that would have prompted you to disclose your situation, show her your name change request etc, and the entire kerfuffle would have been avoided.

Having said all that, you can let this bother you and raise your blood pressure or you can brush it off as one of those events that will not change your life in any manner, negatively or otherwise. May I suggest you spend your time enjoying your pregnancy and indulging in the anxiety of becoming a mother? Congrats, btw!

[Iyawo Ijebu 157]

Both the agent and you were overreacting. They should have explained why a photo id like the passport is required. Maybe the agent could have been nicer about it. Also realize that even US born citizens have to go through hoops just to get mortgages lately. I know, I went through it two years ago. Her question about the SSN is blatently stupid. Like you really are going to admit to wrongdoing (if you really were). It is their job to make sure they do not have illegal aliens there. It is not their job to discriminate. You are bing told you should sue; do you really believe that you can? You weren't denied so it's kind of hard to prove you were discriminated against if you weren't denied.

I agree, mostly.

Both parties were at fault. The OP escalated an interaction with an idiot who was trying to do her job the best way she knows how. She may be required by law, city not USCIS, to verify if she were an illegal alien. I certainly wouldn't want to loose my job because I was bamboozled by someone presenting two differente names. But not an excuse to be rude or mean but that is subjective that the Office person was rude.

It does take two to tango, really.

An example, I called SSN to get a replacement card (for whatever reason my Ex kept is as some sort of trophy in our divorce amongst my other documents). Anyways the Agent on the phone specifically told me the types of documents that I needed to prove my identity. I asked him if I coudl use my credit card with my picture on it. He asked "Sir, did I mention a credit card on the list I just gave you?" A perfectly normal non subservant querry. I could have gotten my oars out of the water but I realised that he must be reading this list all day long to twits like me who always wants to try to use another non listed item, so I understood his frustration.

Anyways, OP needs to move on, if the property meets her requirement, bury the hatchet and live there. Life is too short to carry grudges.

[DandT14 272]

Some of these replies are making me want to scream...

There are no laws that say you have to be treated "nice". There ARE laws that say you can't be discriminated against, particularly in housing. As I said before, unless she treats EVERY person the same way, it's a violation of federal fair housing laws. They can't ask any question they want. They can't demand to see any proof they want. There are rules about this sort of thing. Trust me, I do this for a living, and I'm good at it. There are some limited circumstances where they can ask your ethnicity. You can always refuse to answer.

This woman saw a greencard and reacted to it. That's not ok. She needs training or needs a different job.

You can sue for anything you want. Doesn't mean you'll win. More than likely, the company would settle and you'd get a small sum. I believe our society is far too litigious, however, so I don't encourage lawsuits unless you've actually been damaged.

And, if your application ends up being denied, they better have an unquestionable reason for it. The apartment complex is on very thin ice here.