Filipina

[~happyndinlove~ 540]

There are some american guys here that post and used words that for some of us

seem owning the wife or calling the filipina as a product but i think that is

not their intentions.

I have been a member on this site since 2009. I have seen / read lots of stereotyping, racism, insulting and degrading posts directed to Pinays in many different ways. These comments come from the same (ole and new) guys over and over. Now, tell me that these men are just kidding each time they post their disgusting comments. Apparently, your understanding about this (what I consider despicable) behavior is different from mine.

There are people, i will include myself, that are not good in stating nor very good in communicating. Which end us into misinterpretation and

miscommunication . And some are oversensitive and overacting in the posts that lead to a bigger problem. Either the american guy will be enlighten with what

the comments or will it changed him or worst he got mad and divert the madness to the wife. I think we should be careful too (as a filipina myself) to our

reaction if it will create confusion and worst broken relationships and marriages.

How could you throw your own under the bus? Ridiculing them for how they react to the (endless disgusting) stereotype? Kids cannot communicate their wants very well because they're just kids. Yet, their parents understand and love them inspite of their poor communiation skills. The "men" perpetrating stereotypes aren't kids anymore. I agree that some people are not perfect at communicating, but that doesn't (and will never) justify the degradation and insults these "men" pour onto Pinays.

It is a fact that some of filipina marries kano for financial reasons, some because their relatives are in the US, the friends are in the US, and they wanted to be in the US too. So we cannot blame that some american generalizes us, filipinas, as one and the same as the other rotten ones. We cannot please everybody and the best way is not to attack the generalizes us, rather show to them the real good filipina.

While I agree with your first^^ sentence, I disagree with the rest. My husband has never categorized me or held me suspect as one of the "rotten" ones. Had he ever treated me as one of the "rotten" ones in any way whatsoever hmmmm, let's say the consequences would be DIRE!! Allowing yourself to be "generalized" is the same as allowing yourself to be stereotyped and complicit with the offense. My heritage is Filipino. My name is Eileen. My life story is unique as is yours. I will not compromise my individuality.

Of course most of the attendees don't listen anymore coz the mind is already in

the US out of excitement and all that.

I personally did not listen to the seminar at the CFO simply because I did not need their BS.

Edited April 5, 2012 by ~happyndinlove~

[LSnBigBear 61]

Great Post. I do not take offense with the terms as some do. They are just words IMO. Not sure what most now expect from marrying a Filipina. However they should know we are not in the 1900's now. Women worldwide are much more versed on relationships with the internet. So the good old days of having a submissive Asian or Latin American Wife are over. They may still treat us like gold. But it must be given back to them as well.

My fiancee and I lived together for 6 months prior to me moving back to USA. I actually did all the cooking and she did the cleaning and laundry. A great partnership. I don't want a wife to be a slave. I want a partner. It took me some failed relationships to grow into what 50/50 is. I enjoy it now and look forward to my sweety being here with me. For the comment about sitting outside a cafe or coffee shop.. It can happen that easy in RP. Also in other developing countries. I actually met my fiancee just inside a Cafe/Lounge. I love how we met and how we have grown. No technology just old fashion courtship.

Some mentioned maturity levels and age. We are 22 years apart. But due to her being educated and oldest of 3 in her family ( and bossy lol) she is far more mature then an ex I had that was 7 years younger then me.

Maturity: What most have to understand is Filipinos attend school only through 10 levels. I have worked and Directed an American Company in RP exporting product to USA and Japan. I found that crtitical thinking and problem solving skills are lacking there. I by no means am saying Filipinos are not smart. Because they are smart. It is the educational and length of education they attend in general that may limit the other aspects of their thinking. I don't think it is maturity as much as lack of education attainment. I voluneered at Two Orphanages there and the Western Directors state that maybe lack of nourishment as an infant may cause some of the "immaturity" or lack of certain skills due to lack of nourishment as an infant. I can say I will take my bubbly, happy future wife over hitting the Mega Million Jackpot last weekend. Hands down she is awesome.

For those of you that think and refer to women in RP as anything more than a wife or partner, LOOK OUT!

Good luck to all

[Caryh 5,206]

I am curious...what is your defenition of..the "stereotypical Filipina".

Maybe you could say she's very concerned about cooking, cleaning, and doing the laundry. Feeling its her role to take care of those items around the house. Also asking permission to do certain things, and to buy certain things. She knows, I think, she'll get a yes all the time. But its like the asking is her formalized way of telling me what she wants and making sure I'm ok with it to. She has things she just expects she needs to do for me to be a good wife to me. On the flip side there are things she just expects me to do for her to. To her, she should never need to ask for those things to be done, she expects me to realize it and take care of it. Its been a bit of a learning process myself to understand and know the when and what, but I've gotten fairly good at interpreting what is unspoken.

So I guess when people stereotype the Filipina as being a 50's type American woman, something that probably never truly existed as that, she's in some ways fitting that mold. But she's also very hard working, determined to help the family in financial matters as well as care giving. So besides feeling the home is a responsibility, so is bringing home some bacon by working to. She's emotional, funny, always ready to laugh and have fun, and of course make and eat too much food whenever we have guests.

[JoBri 545]

Well, I adore my wife. She is 14 years younger than me, but she always feels like my equal. She doesnt like me saying "adore" because she says adoration only belongs to the Lord. But I love her with all my heart. She is far from being submissive. I wait on HER. She doesnt cook. I do all the cooking, for her, our 20 month old son, and myself. She doesnt clean the house, I clean the house. She doesnt give me back and foot massages, but I do those things for her on a nightly basis. I lost my job in this economy, and before I could find another job she found one for herself in addition to the job she already had. Since we want a parent home with our son at his age daily, she asked if I would stay home with him and raise him while she worked, so I do that. She wanted to work, and not stay home with our child, yet I enjoy taking care of our son and teaching and loving him. I was an Infantry officer in the U.S. Army during both peace and war, in a combat zone, so it isn't like I haven't had responsibility or been a hard worker in the traditional sense too.

So our marriage is sort of standing on head from the way a traditional relationship is, but it seems to work for us. It all just sort of happened that way. I didn't set out to find someone from the Philippines or any other Asian country. My rule was that I would not even respond to anyone from the Philippines who messaged me. But one night I did respond, only to reply back with "hi" and that was it. Then 6 months later we crossed paths when she was working in Indonesia. It wasn't through any dating site or Asian site, it was in a Christian chat room. And she is definitely not submissive. She is an intelligent, strong woman who held a position of high responsibility in the Philippines prior to coming here, and continues to hold the respect and admiration of her employers and co-workers here in the USA. I admire her, and felt unworthy of her love, yet eternally grateful for her love since I met her 7 years ago.

I am frustrated with the constant (posted) stereotypes, male chauvinism, abusive sexism and regular insults...thrown at Filipino women and culture.

IMO and my observation...There are not many men (relatively speaking) that seek and marry a Filipina following "western" relationship equality guidelines (so to speak). "It's a man's world" is the dominate mentality amongst (many but not all) men in Fil-Am relationships. That is (often but not always) why we see posts stating.."my Pinay" or .."my Filipina". (at 46 years old I have never heard an American..man or woman...refer to their spouse as...my American)

I refer to these (most but not all) men as "predators". They go to PI hunting a product.

One VJ poster often refers to Filipino women as "units" (even typing the statement makes my blood pressure rise). Not woman...lady...girl...or even female. Nope...he chooses .."unit". Tell me..is he thinking product or person?

Another will state..."having been married to 3 Filipinas...(get this) I KNOW THEM NOW AND HOW THE FILIPINA THINKS." (I don't think it's a good idea to take advice from a 3 time loser. Common denominator? The 3 time loser.)

Another poster..."believe me...I've been around the Filipina and I know how they can be." (Have I lost something in translation? Isn't this a blatant stereotype comment made by a racist?)

(I can quote many more examples but 3 is good for now.)

My question...what's the motivator? The root or roots of these offenses?

Asian Flu? Yellow Fever? Olongapo? AC? (The lure is cast and the fish bite?)

(is it) "Age doesn't matter in PI...? (I welcome stories about Pinay / Pinoy marriages with large (20+ years) age gaps...any1? any1?)

(could it be) Kano's rejected and burn out with failed "western" relationships having no confidence but the (often very few) Dollars they have in their pocket used to purchase a (better future) wife from a hopelessly impoverished family "gifting" away a breadwinner for a better tomorrow?

Thank you for reading. Any and all feedback is very welcome.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Crashed~N2~Me - I can't your post enough...

but I will try

and

that is all.

<eom>

Thank you 9 times. I appreciate the thumbs of approval.

I don't expect anyone to categorically agree with my POV. I started the thread hoping to stimulate discussion of a sensitive topic and to protest (what I consider) unacceptable behavior. (but) I am glad to know others get my POV and have similar thoughts brewing inside.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Crashed~N2~Me - I can't your post enough...

but I will try

and

that is all.

<eom>

Sorry...double post.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

It's been five years, and we are still negotiating. I try to give her the advantage of my experience, but she wants to learn things on her own. Some of it is the age difference, some of it is cultural, most of it is just the different emotional needs of men and women.

That, "You are the boss!" thing is just a way to put you off guard. I use preemptive warfare: I confuse her before she confuses me. So far, that is working pretty well.

I am at a disadvantage...not being as smart and not having the same energy level.

There are times I bite my tongue. (example) Even shopping for groceries. Asawa Ko selected an item I think she will not like but I keep quiet thinking...she won't know until she tries.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

(15 years old) I was hired as a grocery stock boy. In the breakroom..there would be a few magazines to thumb through. One of the older male employees would often bring back a magazine (full) of headshot pics of Asian women. That was my 1st exposure to "mail order brides". I was confused and intrigued. Why would women put their pictures in a catalog as though they are for sale via "mail order". How did that work? Pick a woman...pay the purchase price and wait for delivery...? Soooo...an Asian woman can be bought...hmmmm...that's kinda sad and yet...makes the man the owner and master. I suppose these women are taught to be owned by a man. (and) must be they want to be owned by an American man. I asked the co-worker why. He replied.."'cause their country is dirt poor and they want out". That's when I learned many of the women were from PI and SE Asia.

(due to my Dad's work) My family relocated about every 4-6 years. Growing up...I did not have any non-caucasian classmates. All the way until Intermediate high school. In intermediate..there were only a few African American and a few Asian kids attending my school. In high school...that changed. We moved to a small town and my school had a balanced mix of white to all others. (still..only a few Asians). I remember entering through one end of the High School...where the African-American Kids always hung out and being asked..."hey white boy...why do you always come through our door? Every1 knows this end of the school is ours so why do you come through our door?"

Even in College. I played Football so I became accustomed to intergration and in fact found myself the minority. (but) Still...my interaction with Asians was pretty much non-existent. I saw Asians on campus. I thought they seemed ...mysterious.

1998...I'm sipping a Scotch and smoking a stogey...I pick up a Time magazine and on the cover is a pic of a man. I don't remember all the details but I remember the overall story. The man on the cover was a retired colonel. He was being convicted for murdering his Asian wife. This was his 6th wife. All of his wives (his 1st was caucasian but the rest were Asian..3 were Pinay) had died mysterious suicide deaths. Turns out...he had staged their suicides. The investigation uncovered his exploits. The article described how he would compose a contract and make the Filipina sign it prior to marriage. Included in the contract were her duties as his wife. The job description was very detailed including her absolute submissiveness. He even listed how many time she was expected to make love to him (weekly) and with rigorous enthusiasm. The investigators found a box of letters. Some of the letter were from the Pinay's family. They were scolding her for not being a "good wife". The letters were in response to the Pinay complaining about her life as a slave and his letters complaining that she had breached the contract so the money flow (back to PI) would be stopped. Her family reprimanded her and instructed her to follow the contract.

2007..A widowed co-worker says to me..."Michael...you should really try the online dating thing. There's no pressure. It's fun. I sign in when I'm bored. I sign out when I'm bored. It's that easy." Coincidentally..a week prior...one of my clients wives (a Pinay) tells me..."you should try to meet a nice Filipina...you should try a website called Filipina Heart."

the rest brings to today. I meet my wife. I travel to PI. I see extreme poverty. I see happy people. I wonder how these people can be so poor and still be happy. I see other Kano's. I am stared at everywhere I go. I am sometimes approached...even while I am holding my wife's hand...by various women...1 asked..."can you be my friend?" (knives shot out of my wife's eyes on that 1 and she said something in her dialect that she still refuses to translate for me) I see a caucasian man walking down the street with a Pinay holding an umbrella over his head while she remained exposed to the sun. I see many other things but this post is already too long.

Here in the states. We meet other Fil-Am couples. I hear..."he only gives me enough cash to buy grocery. I don't know his passwords...account numbers. I don't touch his phone. I'm not on his bank accounts....it's his money...he doesn't let me ...let...me".

My post is too long and recanting the story is making me feel a bit angry.

There is a crime being commited against some by some. There is a degradation and subjugation of some by some. Where is the morality? Where is the humanity? Where is the equality?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Philwithlove 17]

I have been a member on this site since 2009. I have seen / read lots of stereotyping, racism, insulting and degrading posts directed to Pinays in many different ways. These comments come from the same (ole and new) guys over and over. Now, tell me that these men are just kidding each time they post their disgusting comments. Apparently, your understanding about this (what I consider despicable) behavior is different from mine.

I don't think being a member for a decade or more will give us right to confirm another person's intention when they call pinay. That's why i said "some" american guys coz we do not know which or who among those are really true but won't let us conclude that they are racists, insulting and degrading just by calling a pinay in the way he refer his wife. Don't you think you are stereotyping them too?

How could you throw your own under the bus? Ridiculing them for how they react to the (endless disgusting) stereotype? Kids cannot communicate their wants very well because they're just kids. Yet, their parents understand and love them inspite of their poor communiation skills. The "men" perpetrating stereotypes aren't kids anymore. I agree that some people are not perfect at communicating, but that doesn't (and will never) justify the degradation and insults these "men" pour onto Pinays.

I am true to myself that I (unintentionally) might call other men that may seem to them calling them as a product coz i know in myself that im not good in communication as i am from the philippines. My wordings may not be suitable for the meaning the other person might know. As well as what they will say which for me does have different meaning too. In which intention is the same. But because of communication (based from culture differences),the meaning changes. I am not justifying any degradation or insults, i am saying words of these "men" might be not a degradation or insults at all.

BTW, i am talking about the calling/referring of men to pinay and not other issues.

While I agree with your first^^ sentence, I disagree with the rest. My husband has never categorized me or held me suspect as one of the "rotten" ones. Had he ever treated me as one of the "rotten" ones in any way whatsoever hmmmm, let's say the consequences would be DIRE!! Allowing yourself to be "generalized" is the same as allowing yourself to be stereotyped and complicit with the offense. My heritage is Filipino. My name is Eileen. My life story is unique as is yours. I will not compromise my individuality.

I am happy that you're husband never categorized you. I am lucky to have a husband that never categorized me and some other pinay here. When some american guys heard or have bad experiences with other pinay, we cant blame them in categorizing or generalizing us. Unless they know another pinay that will change their views. So as a pinay, be a good pinay example.

There is one filipina here who said she doesnt recommend to her friends to come to the philippines because she generalizes philippines as not good to go because she has a bad experience here. I felt sorry for her. My place is beautiful, palawan is beautiful, manila is beautiful, the 7,107 islands of the philippines is beautiful. There will be places in the philippines that is not advisable to go but doesnt conclude the entire archipelago. So, when someone generalizes the whole because of the bad spot, he needs to see the beauty of the rest for him to change his views. I am recommending good words to come out of pinays mouth to encourage other culture to generlize us great women with positive attitudes.

I personally did not listen to the seminar at the CFO simply because I did not need their BS.

calling the CFO counseling as BS is your own personal view but i hope it will be helpful for some other pinay that will go out specially those who needs it. For me im taking it as positively.

[LSnBigBear 61]

Nice but said read....

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Post containing personal attacks has been removed. Edited, acceptable parts of the post is returned to the thread below:

Crashed~N2~Me, on 04 April 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

I am frustrated with the constant (posted) stereotypes, male chauvinism, abusive sexism and regular insults...thrown at Filipino women and culture.

We have moderators . . . .

So by all means, (complain about) constant, rampant abusive sexism, insults, etc. . . . it will have zero affect on the very good moderation at this site because to be a moderator here you cannot look for people to punish for imaginary crimes.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kathryn41

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

(I did not see your OP but)..,

Thanks rlogan I appreciate your feedback, I really do.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Kang 22]

Yes and this brings up emotion within these postings that can be a good thing. People need to understand that some things are said about the Philippines or filipina's that we need to defend as this is our culture now as we are married to this culture or going to be married to it. My fiamcee and I have seen the bad and the good that the Phils has. Just as we will see every place we go, all countries have it. I'm asked by my fiancee why so many foreigners come over to the Phils on a sex vacation. Two points I keep telling her is,

you don't get the best foreigners comiing to visit the Phils - I'm not saying all or even most, but if your hanging out in Angeles the ratio of good people there drops.. And that is why the Phils gets a bad rap sometimes. If you go to my fiancees province, the only foreigners there is my friend and I, so the people see that we are good foreigners and that americans are good. You talk to people around the provinces of ANgeles( I know because I have many friends that live in or near) and their views of foreigners are not so good. We can go on for hours/days of the stories... And this disgusts me because this isn't the true Phils and we are not that stereotype of foreigners...

It largely depends on the locality, I guess? Up north in Baguio most foreigners there are Koreans who study English. I think half of the population is already Korean

[Kang 22]

There are some american guys here that post and used words that for some of us seem owning the wife or calling the filipina as a product but i think that is not their intentions. There are people, i will include myself, that are not good in stating nor very good in communicating. Which end us into misinterpretation and miscommunication . And some are oversensitive and overacting in the posts that lead to a bigger problem. Either the american guy will be enlighten with what the comments or will it changed him or worst he got mad and divert the madness to the wife. I think we should be careful too (as a filipina myself) to our reaction if it will create confusion and worst broken relationships and marriages.

Alot of filipina or even their partners complains about the CFO and even blame the government for some additional time to spend in attending it. I believe CFO counseling is good if not the best for filipina who will go out of the country and marry a different culture. It gives guidance to what to do and where to go. what is violence and even how to manage the relationship. Of course most of the attendees don't listen anymore coz the mind is already in the US out of excitement and all that.

It is a fact that some of filipina marries kano for financial reasons, some because their relatives are in the US, the friends are in the US, and they wanted to be in the US too. So we cannot blame that some american generalizes us, filipinas, as one and the same as the other rotten ones. We cannot please everybody and the best way is not to attack the generalizes us, rather show to them the real good filipina.

It doesn't help that the first "mail order brides" are Pinays and that majority of the women on dating sites are from the Philippines (not that I am against it) but generally, the stereotypes come from these.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It doesn't help that the first "mail order brides" are Pinays and that majority of the women on dating sites are from the Philippines (not that I am against it) but generally, the stereotypes come from these.

Link please! Historically, mail-order brides came from well-developed areas to marry men in overseas colonies and frontier lands.