Sadly separated, 2 Year coming up.. what to do?

[Meanderthal 0]

I will get right to the point here... my wife left me in May. Her 2-year will be up in February. Although I have been desperately trying to reconcile things and get her back, she says she is happy and has no desire to. Although everyone I have asked, including an immigration counselor, says I should just get the divorce and let her deal with it; I am reluctant to do so. Both because I would hate to see her get deported over something that could happen to anyone, and I still hope we can get back together someday.

So my question is, would it be wise to just stay separated, file the I-751 jointly with all the proof, and just be up-front in the interview? Or get the divorce and let her just file the waiver? It would be nice if we could just submit all the proof documents and not have to interview. We have a joint bank account, taxes for 2005, an apartment lease together, she's on my insurance, and car insurance. I could probably get some friends to sign affidavits, but I doubt my mother would she's pretty po'ed at her right now

[kim&james 0]

a bit of a sticky one here..

my advice is to not do anything. Im not saying this to be nasty or anything but your wife really cant AOS this way if she is no longer your wife.. that comes back to fraud..

I would not get your friends involved by signing avidavits or anything, the less people you have involved the better for everyone.

it is nice that you want to do the right thing by your wife so she wont have any hassles but in the eyes of the USCIS if your marriage is no longer valid then neither is her path to adjust status.

Unless you and her have a valid marriage which has not broken down then she really has no choice or very little to remain here. It will be difficult no matter which way you guys go but the thing is .. be totally honest when dealing with immigration.. you will get caught out otherwise.

Good luck and best wishes...

[ursy 0]

It sounds like fraud to me and people like that should not be granted anything. That is why I am in favor of raising the 2year time limit to 3.

[Adam_23 0]

I am sorry to hear your story, I dont know anything but for what you wrote, I think that the chances of you and you wife getting together are very very slim. You said that she is very happy and that she has no desire for the two of you to get back together. If I were you I would do eveything that I could to send her back to where she came from.

You are good man and try to do eveything to help her but dont try to get her, a permanent green card if the two are not together, write to the immigration department and tell them the truth that you dont live together, that things did not work out and you want your wife to be sent back to Venezuela.

A person filing for permanent green card can only continue with the process without the husband of she can prove that her husband is an abusive partner and you are not, right? The only help that I would provide to her would be to help her pack.

I am sorry to sound harsh, I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you find somebody that you love and that also loves you. It is out there somewhere.

Best of Luck

[meauxna 15]

I will get right to the point here... my wife left me in May. Her 2-year will be up in February. Although I have been desperately trying to reconcile things and get her back, she says she is happy and has no desire to. Although everyone I have asked, including an immigration counselor, says I should just get the divorce and let her deal with it; I am reluctant to do so. Both because I would hate to see her get deported over something that could happen to anyone, and I still hope we can get back together someday.

So my question is, would it be wise to just stay separated, file the I-751 jointly with all the proof, and just be up-front in the interview? Or get the divorce and let her just file the waiver? It would be nice if we could just submit all the proof documents and not have to interview. We have a joint bank account, taxes for 2005, an apartment lease together, she's on my insurance, and car insurance. I could probably get some friends to sign affidavits, but I doubt my mother would she's pretty po'ed at her right now

1-Where have you been? Love your nickname!

2-It is sad, but I do agree with "everyone". Immigration is her concern at this point. There are things you can do to be helpful to her without jeoprodising yourself legally. Emotionally, I'll leave that to someone else to discuss.

3-She will nto automatically get deported. Once divorced, she can file the I-751 on her own, with evidence that it was a bona fide marriage. That is where you can help her, by giving her the evidence she needs.

4-Look into it, but I don't think you can file the i-751 jointly if you are currently separated.

[sparkofcreation 0]

It sounds like fraud to me and people like that should not be granted anything. That is why I am in favor of raising the 2year time limit to 3.

Fraud?! Oh, for Pete's sakes. Just because a couple separates does not mean that one of them had fraudulent intent! In the US, half of all separations leading to divorce happen within the first two years, which is why the time period is two years.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in the original post to indicate that the marriage was fraudulent. In fact, it seems to me like there's evidence in spades of a bona fide marriage.

God, I f'ing hate the people on this forum sometimes. Why is everyone so quick to assume that the immigrant must have only married for the green card? Have they never, ever had a relationship where one of the parties just couldn't be in the relationship anymore? Are they really unsure of their own spouses' intentions, that's why they assume all immigrants except the *one* they happened to marry are only after green cards? Do you realize how insulting that is to the original poster (and his wife, of course)?

To the OP: What Meauxna said is right on, on all counts.

[silly_chick 0]

It sounds like fraud to me and people like that should not be granted anything. That is why I am in favor of raising the 2year time limit to 3.

It totally makes me sick. What is it with you people? Someone is looking for advice and support, and all you have for him is criticism and insults.

If I were you I would do eveything that I could to send her back to where she came from.

You are good man and try to do eveything to help her but dont try to get her, a permanent green card if the two are not together, write to the immigration department and tell them the truth that you dont live together, that things did not work out and you want your wife to be sent back to Venezuela.

What is she, a parcel? You can't just send people back and forth the way you please, just because the marriage fell apart. The only thing USCIS cares about is the intent. If the intent was fraudulent, then yes, a person can be deported. But if the marriage just didn't work out, she can remove conditions on her own, and she's entitled to it.

It just amazes me how people would call any marriage that didn't work out "fraud".

[japau 1]

I agree with Spark and Silly Chick. While it's unfortunate what happened, sometimes this will happen because of the cultural differences, and the fact that most of us dont' really spend that much time actually WITH our new spouses until after we are married and they come to the country. My wife and I went through a tough adjustment period (her adjusting to my unreasonable behaviors...lol) once she got here, and there was one point where I didn't think we were going to make it, nor did I care. However, I cared for her enough to tell her that whatever she wanted to do, stay here, go back, whatever, I would support her in that and put her wherever she wanted to be. In the end, we worked it out and passed through that time and now we are doing much, much better, and are a very happy couple.

I didn't want to make this about me...sorry...the point is you obviously care for this woman still, so, I wouldn't do anything negative, or "just let her deal with it" or whatever. You can still jointly file the I-751, and you can explain the situation in an affidavit, while making a clear statement that you has a valid relationship, got married to get married, and not to evade the immigration laws. You can also provide all the evidence and then let the chips fall where they may. The other option is to just do her the favor and go about it as if you were still together so she can get the permanent card - no one is likely to find out - how could they? That would be a selfless act for sure. Or, you could ask her what she wants for you to do...in the end, it's your decision.

I'm sorry that you are going through this, and wish you the best.

J

Edited September 23, 2006 by japau

[PurrSuede 0]

It sounds like fraud to me and people like that should not be granted anything. That is why I am in favor of raising the 2year time limit to 3.

It totally makes me sick. What is it with you people? Someone is looking for advice and support, and all you have for him is criticism and insults.

If I were you I would do eveything that I could to send her back to where she came from.

You are good man and try to do eveything to help her but dont try to get her, a permanent green card if the two are not together, write to the immigration department and tell them the truth that you dont live together, that things did not work out and you want your wife to be sent back to Venezuela.

What is she, a parcel? You can't just send people back and forth the way you please, just because the marriage fell apart. The only thing USCIS cares about is the intent. If the intent was fraudulent, then yes, a person can be deported. But if the marriage just didn't work out, she can remove conditions on her own, and she's entitled to it.

It just amazes me how people would call any marriage that didn't work out "fraud".

You know, dealing with this issue currently, when our divorce first came up, I was fine with letting her file by herself, provided her with some "documents" regarding the marriage.

Then, she started proposing manufacturing fraudulent documents. Then she started monkeying with my financial accounts and insurance.

I can't prove she entered the relationship with fraudulent intent. I can't even PROVE to the INS that she proposed to create fraudulent documents with my co-operation, but I did decide to raise that flag with the USCIS.

Someone who does fraudulent things, well, they may have had all kinds of intent. But the fact is, it's not up to us, as the USC to prove fraudulent intent, or not. It's up to the petitioner and the USCIS solely.

If the USC chooses to provide "documentation" of the bona fide marriage the alien spouse will likely be able to file on her own with a waiver, but if the marriage is over, you can not file jointly.

As some people have said, just because the marriage didnt work out doesn't mean there was fraudulent intent. But just because the marriage didn't work out doesn't mean there WASN'T either... more than one have entered this relationship thinking "I'll try it out and if it doesn't work, well at least now I'm in America..." That could certainly be construed as fraudulent intent, like it or not...

The bottom line is it will be between the alien spouse as sole petitioner, requesting a waiver of the joint filing and the USCIS.

I was more than willing to let my ex- pursue her waiver on her own and then she started monkeying with things and proprosing other fraudulent activities, such as falsification of documents. That is the information I gave to the USCIS, I don't want to be complicit in the event she DOES attempt to falsify her documents.

-- Dan

. The other option is to just do her the favor and go about it as if you were still together so she can get the permanent card - no one is likely to find out - how could they? That would be a selfless act for sure.

I'm sorry that you are going through this, and wish you the best.

J

You have just proposed that this person commit Immigration Fraud with that statement.

"go about it as if you were still together, so she can get her card... no one is likely to find out - how could they"

That is FRAUD. Plain and simple.

That is NOT a selfless act. That is IMMIGRATION FRAUD, pure and simple, and you've just suggested that they commit this crime.

-- Dan

[homesick_american 1]

I will get right to the point here... my wife left me in May. Her 2-year will be up in February. Although I have been desperately trying to reconcile things and get her back, she says she is happy and has no desire to. Although everyone I have asked, including an immigration counselor, says I should just get the divorce and let her deal with it; I am reluctant to do so. Both because I would hate to see her get deported over something that could happen to anyone, and I still hope we can get back together someday.

So my question is, would it be wise to just stay separated, file the I-751 jointly with all the proof, and just be up-front in the interview? Or get the divorce and let her just file the waiver? It would be nice if we could just submit all the proof documents and not have to interview. We have a joint bank account, taxes for 2005, an apartment lease together, she's on my insurance, and car insurance. I could probably get some friends to sign affidavits, but I doubt my mother would she's pretty po'ed at her right now

1-Where have you been? Love your nickname!

2-It is sad, but I do agree with "everyone". Immigration is her concern at this point. There are things you can do to be helpful to her without jeoprodising yourself legally. Emotionally, I'll leave that to someone else to discuss.

3-She will nto automatically get deported. Once divorced, she can file the I-751 on her own, with evidence that it was a bona fide marriage. That is where you can help her, by giving her the evidence she needs.

4-Look into it, but I don't think you can file the i-751 jointly if you are currently separated.

[japau 1]

-- Dan

. The other option is to just do her the favor and go about it as if you were still together so she can get the permanent card - no one is likely to find out - how could they? That would be a selfless act for sure.

I'm sorry that you are going through this, and wish you the best.

J

You have just proposed that this person commit Immigration Fraud with that statement.

"go about it as if you were still together, so she can get her card... no one is likely to find out - how could they"

That is FRAUD. Plain and simple.

That is NOT a selfless act. That is IMMIGRATION FRAUD, pure and simple, and you've just suggested that they commit this crime.

-- Dan

First of all, it is not FRAUD - it's not even fraud. When they got married, they didn't commit fraud (which is the intent to evade the immigration laws). Therefore, that couldn't turn into fraud today. If you actually care to look at an I-751, the only way to file separately (in this type of instance) is if the marriage ended by divorce or annulment, so separation doesn't count. Therefore, again, no fraud. Third, as I stated (without YELLING) fraud requires the intent to evade the immigration laws (I'm an attorney). Just filing an I-751 while separated providing the evidence that there was avalid relationship at the time of immigration and thereafter as required (nothing in the form states that there must not be a separation pending) is not fraud. Finally, you never know, this couple might work out their problems, so what, then they have to go through the whole immigration thing again with the black mark of abandoning the process on it?

It's obvious that you're angry and bitter, and that's ok (the country is full of Republicans). However, you don't know what you're talking about (on the fraud issue) so you really shouldn't be commenting on this issue, or accusing people of committing crimes or that I suggested another commit a crime where you so obviously don't undertsand the legalities...capische?

J

Edited September 24, 2006 by japau

[PurrSuede 0]

First of all, it is not FRAUD - it's not even fraud. When they got married, they didn't commit fraud (which is the intent to evade the immigration laws). Therefore, that couldn't turn into fraud today.

to propose to someone to "go about it as if you were still together, so she can get her card" is proposing to them to commit a FRAUDULENT act... as they are not still together...

Third, as I stated (without YELLING) fraud requires the intent to evade the immigration laws (I'm an attorney).

Then shame on you, you should know better....

However, you don't know what you're talking about (on the fraud issue) so you really shouldn't be commenting on this issue, or accusing people of committing crimes or that I suggested another commit a crime where you so obviously don't undertsand the legalities...capische?

I think you don't understand the legalities of your own actions to propose to someone to "PRETEND" an occurance "just so she can get her card".

It's fraudulent, blatantly.

-- Dan

[Boiler 43,429]

-- Dan

. The other option is to just do her the favor and go about it as if you were still together so she can get the permanent card - no one is likely to find out - how could they? That would be a selfless act for sure.

I'm sorry that you are going through this, and wish you the best.

J

You have just proposed that this person commit Immigration Fraud with that statement.

"go about it as if you were still together, so she can get her card... no one is likely to find out - how could they"

That is FRAUD. Plain and simple.

That is NOT a selfless act. That is IMMIGRATION FRAUD, pure and simple, and you've just suggested that they commit this crime.

-- Dan

First of all, it is not FRAUD - it's not even fraud. When they got married, they didn't commit fraud (which is the intent to evade the immigration laws). Therefore, that couldn't turn into fraud today. If you actually care to look at an I-751, the only way to file separately (in this type of instance) is if the marriage ended by divorce or annulment, so separation doesn't count. Therefore, again, no fraud. Third, as I stated (without YELLING) fraud requires the intent to evade the immigration laws (I'm an attorney). Just filing an I-751 while separated providing the evidence that there was avalid relationship at the time of immigration and thereafter as required (nothing in the form states that there must not be a separation pending) is not fraud. Finally, you never know, this couple might work out their problems, so what, then they have to go through the whole immigration thing again with the black mark of abandoning the process on it?

It's obvious that you're angry and bitter, and that's ok (the country is full of Republicans). However, you don't know what you're talking about (on the fraud issue) so you really shouldn't be commenting on this issue, or accusing people of committing crimes or that I suggested another commit a crime where you so obviously don't undertsand the legalities...capische?

J

It is Fraud, or even FRAUD to purport that they are still an ongoing married couple and are seeking a 10 year GC on that basis when they are actually seperated.

The best thing the OP could do for his soon to be ex is divorce her, as soon as she is divorced shhe can file in her own right.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

The other option is to just do her the favor and go about it as if you were still together so she can get the permanent card - no one is likely to find out - how could they?

Hmm. If you believe that the 'opinion' you offered for the couple to feign that they are still in a viable marriage is completely above board, in the legal sense, why would you also write....

no one is likely to find out - how could they?

Am I to believe that if someone *did* find out, the 'opinion' you've offered might not be good counsel?

First of all, it is not FRAUD - it's not even fraud. When they got married, they didn't commit fraud (which is the intent to evade the immigration laws). Therefore, that couldn't turn into fraud today.

Ok, I see we're involved in a battle of semantics. To sustain a claim of fraud, one would have to prove that (1) a representation was made; (2) the representation was false (3) the false representation was material (4) the individual(s) that made the representation knew it was false (5) the individual(s) intent was that the representation be relied upon; and (6) the representation was relied upon to the hearer's detriment.

Knowing that, there are many cases of unilateral fraud, where one party is the tool and non-the-wiser. While it appears in the instant case that the OP married for genuine reasons, we do not know what his wife's intentions were at the time they married. As a lawyer, I'd think it would be standard practice for you to have all the facts before making any judgment, and especially one that is so resolute. That said, if both parties entered the marriage with bona fide intent, then to feign a viable marriage at a point in the process where there are clear options available to the alien to remove conditions from her permanent residency alone, would be misrepresentation, which, if material could have precarious implications on her future stay in the USA. Not wise counsel, in my opinion!

There are many ways to perpetrate fraud. There's an act of fraud against a government agency (as in securing a benefit to which one was not rightfully due), and then there is the act of defrauding a person (gaining a benefit from another person, through misrepresentation, who would not have offered it had h/she known of the falsity).

What is clear from your 'opinion' is that you are guiding someone to circumvent the adminstrative code and immigration regulations and procedure...which I would suspect would not be a sound policy. NSC issued a memo in December 2004, which was then revised in early 2005, apprising aliens that are in a period of separation at the time the I-751 should be filed, to inform their Service Centre that they are currently separated. A waiver cannot be submitted until a divorce decree is available.

In the event that this party filed a joint I-751 and subsequently divorced, the alien would have to withdraw the joint petition and replace it with a waiver later on anyway.

As Boiler recommended, if the OP is intent on his wife having success in removing conditions, and she is resolute that he marriage is at a terminal status, he should provide her with the bona fides that they have acquired during the marriage, and comply with her request to divorce so that a decree will be available for her to file the waiver in a timely fashion.

Edited September 24, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[Meanderthal 0]

Wow this is a lot to digest. I can say the marriage was indeed valid from the get-go. We haven't signed any separation agreement or anything, at this point just living apart... So is this truly a separation in the eyes of the law?

I really appreciate everyone's reply this is all very enlightening.