Alla Graduates, Finally!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Really, we're going to go there again? Thought we were having a nice little chat. Well if you're going down that road again, do it in another thread then please, out of respect for your wife's very substantial achievement.

Are you talking to me? Am I the one that went down that road or was it others? And how would it respect her achievement in any case?

[Captain Hammer 113]

Are you talking to me? Am I the one that went down that road or was it others?

Fair enough, my apologies.

[eekee 182]

I think we're arguing in circles. Basically the system is 'good' for some value of good, because it offers protection from a broken system, which also provides the corruption that offers protection. It's a vicious cycle with no end in sight. Thus, my argument about fixing such a system is mostly academic because there is no impetus for those who could fix the system (i.e. those who benefit from it the most) to actually fix it.

But I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking it's all a zero sum game. It's exactly the opposite. For every winner, there are many, many losers. The university professor who takes bribes from her students may be simply supplementing her income, but the result is students who graduate knowing nothing about their course of study. Think about that the next time you're visiting the doctor in Moscow--just how qualified is she really? (since you're an American I'm guessing you have a decent private insurance provider, so you probably don't face that problem. But many do not.) During my time in Kyiv, I came to realize that I was more qualified to practice in their own legal system than some of the Ukrainian lawyers I worked with. I have no doubt these so-called 'professionals' were degreed in paper only.

No, I have insurance that pays for me to go to the regular governmental poliklinika. But since this is Russia, I have a friend who is a doctor and I would call him. If I needed legal advice, I'd talk to my friend who is working to become a lawyer. That's the secret to survival here: you need to have a circle of trusted people who can help you out with things. That's why so many foreigners run into trouble. They simply don't have the social network.

I would not go to the doctor in Moscow, though. I do not live there.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No, I have insurance that pays for me to go to the regular governmental poliklinika. But since this is Russia, I have a friend who is a doctor and I would call him. If I needed legal advice, I'd talk to my friend who is working to become a lawyer. That's the secret to survival here: you need to have a circle of trusted people who can help you out with things. That's why so many foreigners run into trouble. They simply don't have the social network.

I would not go to the doctor in Moscow, though. I do not live there.

Alla has her "book" of names of people she knows and people that friends know. We pay a doctor a fee, kind of like a "retainer" for his personal cell number. My MIL has that number in case she has a problem she can call him. We know a lawyer, an electrician, a guy that fixes computers, a list of drivers, etc. The network is extremely important in the FSU in order to function normally.

Alla's mom relies on Alla alot, still, and Alla can make a couple phone calls or send some emails and get pretty much anything done for her. All for a fee in cash, of course, or if they are a friend, maybe just a small gift. This was the system that worked when the official system did not and people just do not want to change it. It is no longer "corruption" per se, though the doctors often spend more time with their private (cash)patients than they do at the clinic, and the electricians, drivers, etc are not likely to have the proper credentials, whatever that may be.

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

It's someone who learns about Ukraine via the net...mainly wiki.

enough of that.

[eekee 182]

Maybe because I'm younger, but I don't even have that sort of private number/fee system, just people I hang out with who can do things and then maybe I'll buy them a beer next time we go out together or something.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Maybe because I'm younger, but I don't even have that sort of private number/fee system, just people I hang out with who can do things and then maybe I'll buy them a beer next time we go out together or something.

Maybe because you are younger. Our mindset is "everyone has to eat" and we don't mind paying for services, but we WANT the services and having the access to people we need for that helps. Most of these people are supplementing their normal income with "black money" so they are doing this to make money. We know that if Alla's mom tries to go to the clinic, she could wait for days for an appointment, maybe longer. We know this doctor will come to her the same day if we pay him some money. That is a big relief for Alla knowing this doctor will help her mother. We do not have a friend that is a doctor that will do it for a beer at some later date, but we have a friend who has a friend...etc.

[eekee 182]

Maybe because you are younger. Our mindset is "everyone has to eat" and we don't mind paying for services, but we WANT the services and having the access to people we need for that helps. Most of these people are supplementing their normal income with "black money" so they are doing this to make money. We know that if Alla's mom tries to go to the clinic, she could wait for days for an appointment, maybe longer. We know this doctor will come to her the same day if we pay him some money. That is a big relief for Alla knowing this doctor will help her mother. We do not have a friend that is a doctor that will do it for a beer at some later date, but we have a friend who has a friend...etc.

When somebody is your friend, though, it'd be offensive to offer money.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Congratulations. Too bad it's not a 3.95 in Engineering.

Alla will graduate and get her MA-TESOL tomorrow after nearly three years!

She has worked very hard, both in class and also in the various jobs she had during this time and has basically been going non-stop 16-18 hours a day. She is looking forward to sleeping late for a few days. Then she is off to Ukraine for a few weeks. I will join her there later in August and come back with her. She finished with a 3.95 grade average.

I will not know what to do with myself once I get my "wife back" and I do not have to proof-read all her essays, lesson plans, etc.

Now she has to find a job teaching English.

[Captain Hammer 113]

No, I have insurance that pays for me to go to the regular governmental poliklinika. But since this is Russia, I have a friend who is a doctor and I would call him. If I needed legal advice, I'd talk to my friend who is working to become a lawyer. That's the secret to survival here: you need to have a circle of trusted people who can help you out with things. That's why so many foreigners run into trouble. They simply don't have the social network.

I think social networks is true of anywhere you go. The bigger your social network, the easier life is. When I was fresh out of law school, I moved to San Francisco for a time and didn't know anybody. Simple things such as moving were a pain. I couldn't just call a buddy with a truck, I had to pay somebody. It's miserable when you don't have the right social contacts.

Having lived in Ukraine, I do understand that living in a foreign country such s Russia or Ukraine brings with it a certain set of necessary skills and attitudes. This isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the part of that "system" (if you want to call it that) that is crippling those countries. As in my example of university professors taking bribes. This problem is rampant, and all it does is drain the brain trust of the country. Or as in your example ekee, where all the right palms have to be greased just to fix a road or build a building. When a large portion of your profits as a small business goes to the "mafia," it stifles the economy and innovation.

[eekee 182]

I've lived in the US and I've lived in Russia, and it is NOT as important in the US.

[baron555 934]

Alla and I both send our congrats to Alla and to you two. All is very well over here; just a little hot and humid!!!

[Captain Hammer 113]

I've lived in the US and I've lived in Russia, and it is NOT as important in the US.

I understand that. I'm not saying there is a 1:1 comparison. I'm saying that there is "you do something for me and I'll do something for you," and then there is the massive corruption that is keeping FSU countries from ever reaching their true potential.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Congratulations. Too bad it's not a 3.95 in Engineering.

If it makes you feel better, Sergey just graduated with a bachelors in Applied Physics from Moscow "PhysTech" with a 4.8 average (they have a 5.0 system there) But he is going back for his masters in a few weeks. A bachelors degree is just a rest stop. He has a full ride through a PhD now and will be a genuine rocket scientist

I give Alla a bit more credit because she now has a degree to teach a language which is not her native language and was taught not in her native language. Plus she managed working, a husband and family at the same time.

[jundp 191]

First of all it is my favorite thing in life to do things with my family, it is what makes me happy. I am not too happy without them.

My family IS my investment portfolio. I cannot do anything better with money than invest it in them.

All I can say is...make your family your pleasure and joy and you will always be happy.

Amen, Gary!