Religion & Tithing [split topic]

[fjb1122 2]

Hey guys, I know this is off the topic but I want your views on this. I feel comfortable relaying this to you online buddies...

Here's the story...

So when my hubby and I got married, it was a Christian wedding. I didn't mind, though I am Catholic, I wasn't a very religious one, but I do have a personal relationship with God, which is strengthened further by reading the Bible, and praying sincerely. I have faith and ever since, religion didn't count for me as a barrier to our relationship with the Lord. I respect varied views of different religions on their faith and I feel that I shouldn't be judged with mine. But this is one thing that is really becoming an issue for me...

I know friends who also go to Christian churches but they were not obliged to give the so-called tithe (ten percent of your income goes to church). This church where my hubby and his family go to is preaching about this tithing, and not only is this new to me, it is a matter that I did not think would be somewhat imposed (as it appears, since every time the pastor preaches, he almost always makes mention of how we should be giving back and not robbing the Lord by giving 10 percent of our individual income to the church. Now that I have been attending this church with my hubby, I talked to my hubby about this, and since I don't have a job yet, his income is really small, and giving 10 percent of his gross income is too much of a sacrifice especially since he is also under child support. I asked him if there was any way for him to skip this tithe for quite sometime, he said NO. (not even if our survival is at stake). So as it seemed to me he was strongly indoctrinated (even as I raised the point that while we are living in limited means, the pastor and his wife enjoys a luxurious life, even driving a Porsche and a BMW X5, noting that they don't have jobs) So I made a decision not to intervene in his practice, but I made it clear to him, that taken as one family, I will not give tithe, since he is already giving, and I should be taken as part of that tithe he was giving, since his money is my money and vice versa, as husband and wife. So he said, he will not force me to give, but he will still continue to with his tithing, but since at the moment, we have a joint account, he even wanted to have a separate account so that the check for the tithe would indicate that the tithe was from him (since his name is specified in the check unlike now where our check shows both our names). I told him, the reason why I do not want to give 10 percent of my future income is because first, I would rather help directly to the people in need, second, I believe in cheerful giving in terms of offerrings and not obligated tithing and third, I do not tolerate corruption and manipulation for vested interests of certain spiritual leaders. I do not want to sound like I am a non believer in the great promises of the Lord for the generous, but I do believe that the Lord is a just God and sees our intentions and our needs and will judge us accordingly. I wanted to change church, still a Christian but there are a lot of Christian churches which do not impose this so-called tithing, more than encouraging offerrings in order to sutain the church and perform outreach programs, which I am fully supportive of. I don't know how to deal with this. I love my husband, I wanted to correct his views, but this is difficult at the moment, he has been doing this since 2002, and we are only recently married. This is really one of the things that is bothering me right now. We both are sure this issue is not going to destroy our love, as I will just let him do what he wants as I have asked him not to interfere with my decision, but isn't this a little awkward given that we are a couple?

Help please...

[Little_My 464]

This is just me, and my personal opinion, which is in no way based on the bible or on the Holy word. Just to make that clear.

I am a Christian, though not very religious.

I, however, do not believe for ONE SECOND that the kingdom of heaven is funded by tithes or alms or any other contributions. When people voluntarily want to contribute to the Church, that is perfectly fine. When anyone feels pressured to do so, that is not fine. That is not what religion, or God, is about.

[BMW4me 12]

God well first of all mrs. Finland is right, he is being very narrow minded.

Secondly, your husband looks to me like my sister in law, same things giving money to church and all..

It makes me so angry, driving x5s huh woooow.

Anywho I don't wanna go on, wouldn't like to insult anyone but aaaaaah.

Sorry for your troubles, I can say this though you won't be able to affect his decisions much on this religion stuff, at least my brother hasn't succeeded yet.....

[mrclean 3]

Practically a church is an organization that needs to be supported and it's main line of financial support is through its members. Without the suport of its own members through volunteer efforts and donations, a church or any non-profit driven organization would fail. Easier said, If you commit to a church, you ought to commit to supporting it. Just as you commit to your spouse you commit to supporting him/her.

The Bible talks about sacrifice and giving a few times. One example is with the woman giving the little she had (Luke 21:1-4). I'll quote it below:

1 As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. 3 “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

Your relationship with God is yours alone. Your relationship with the community of believers isn't and that's one way a church fills a void in your faith. Not that I'm implying you're not committing to a church btw!

I believe faith isn't just about a personal relationship with God. It's also about a communal relationship with others of the same belief and when you find a group or church to help in that faith building, you ought to commit to it. One of those commitments involve supporting the church you attend by volunteering and another is by giving.

Anyhoo, just my two cents and respectfully no offense to anyone (really!).

A bit off topic... maybe better to move this conversation to another part of the VJ?

[fjb1122 2]

Yes, thanks to you all. I anticipated that this will receive varied opinion, definitely two opposing poles. I have no problem with giving, offering, etc, but to quote a Malachi scripture only to make it obligatory for the church members to give ten percent poses an issue for me, and like u said mr clean, church fund is necessary to keep the church going, but i suppose not to sustain their vehicles' monthly payments? or their vacation trips? when you quoted Luke 21:1-4, this to me is telling more on the ways of Jesus, on living a simple life, but filled with generosity and love for other people (as the temple treasury will be used to feed the poor,etc, etc). On these two accounts, our church failed. A man of God (pastor) should think it better to live a simple life and utilize church funds to help the poor. Indeed, I want to grow my relationship with God by joining a congregation of faith, but I believe we have a choice of which congregation to join in.

[Otto 83]

** Topic split from ongoing AOS March 2011 Filers topic.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Get all your money together and throw it in the air. Whatever God catches, he can keep. The rest is yours.

[mawilson 2,133]

Get all your money together and throw it in the air. Whatever God catches, he can keep. The rest is yours.

People are so gullible. Tithing...

[mawilson 2,133]

Funny how "the poor" are too poor to pay income taxes, but apparently not too poor to pay a 10 percent God tax of dubious legitimacy.

[Danno 1,228]

Hey guys, I know this is off the topic but I want your views on this. I feel comfortable relaying this to you online buddies...

Here's the story...

So when my hubby and I got married, it was a Christian wedding. I didn't mind, though I am Catholic, I wasn't a very religious one, but I do have a personal relationship with God, which is strengthened further by reading the Bible, and praying sincerely. I have faith and ever since, religion didn't count for me as a barrier to our relationship with the Lord. I respect varied views of different religions on their faith and I feel that I shouldn't be judged with mine. But this is one thing that is really becoming an issue for me...

I know friends who also go to Christian churches but they were not obliged to give the so-called tithe (ten percent of your income goes to church). This church where my hubby and his family go to is preaching about this tithing, and not only is this new to me, it is a matter that I did not think would be somewhat imposed (as it appears, since every time the pastor preaches, he almost always makes mention of how we should be giving back and not robbing the Lord by giving 10 percent of our individual income to the church. Now that I have been attending this church with my hubby, I talked to my hubby about this, and since I don't have a job yet, his income is really small, and giving 10 percent of his gross income is too much of a sacrifice especially since he is also under child support. I asked him if there was any way for him to skip this tithe for quite sometime, he said NO. (not even if our survival is at stake). So as it seemed to me he was strongly indoctrinated (even as I raised the point that while we are living in limited means, the pastor and his wife enjoys a luxurious life, even driving a Porsche and a BMW X5, noting that they don't have jobs) So I made a decision not to intervene in his practice, but I made it clear to him, that taken as one family, I will not give tithe, since he is already giving, and I should be taken as part of that tithe he was giving, since his money is my money and vice versa, as husband and wife. So he said, he will not force me to give, but he will still continue to with his tithing, but since at the moment, we have a joint account, he even wanted to have a separate account so that the check for the tithe would indicate that the tithe was from him (since his name is specified in the check unlike now where our check shows both our names). I told him, the reason why I do not want to give 10 percent of my future income is because first, I would rather help directly to the people in need, second, I believe in cheerful giving in terms of offerrings and not obligated tithing and third, I do not tolerate corruption and manipulation for vested interests of certain spiritual leaders. I do not want to sound like I am a non believer in the great promises of the Lord for the generous, but I do believe that the Lord is a just God and sees our intentions and our needs and will judge us accordingly. I wanted to change church, still a Christian but there are a lot of Christian churches which do not impose this so-called tithing, more than encouraging offerrings in order to sutain the church and perform outreach programs, which I am fully supportive of. I don't know how to deal with this. I love my husband, I wanted to correct his views, but this is difficult at the moment, he has been doing this since 2002, and we are only recently married. This is really one of the things that is bothering me right now. We both are sure this issue is not going to destroy our love, as I will just let him do what he wants as I have asked him not to interfere with my decision, but isn't this a little awkward given that we are a couple?

Help please...

Seems to me the bigger issue is your marriage, I suspect this conflict is an ongoing thing for you two.

When you marry someone you have a responsibility to determine if you can embrace their life style, I doubt the duty he feels for his church was a secret.

To my view you have two separate issues.

1. YOur husbands position as a member of this church obligates him to be a regular donor, can you live with this?

2. Is in fact the Minister is living a lavish life style off the backs of his congregation ?

As a member you have a right to know how much he makes, I would find it hard to justify his salary being much higher than the average income in the congregation.

Why don't you find out if he is fleecing the flock or... maybe he has some secondary business. I knew of a minister who was easily a millionaire, due to his other business holdings.... even so he lived a very modest lifestyle.

What ever you do, don't be a user.... a person who enjoys the occasion of using a church/ synagogue (weddings baptisms, funnerals) but expect everyone else to pay to keep these places functioning for your "visits".

[fjb1122 2]

Actually, his paying of monthly dues to the church is something that we did not discuss at all when we were just in a relationship. Perhaps he felt that at the time he was single, his tithing was a decision he made for himself. We can not ofcourse help but decide now for both of us, and in marriage, finances is an important area. It is not fully an issue of embracing each other's lifestyle, I suppose when one gets married, he/she has to adjust especially to the changing times and situations. I, myself had changed a lot due to our marital union, and out of love, I had to give way. It boils down to how one explains and understands the other. He has explained his side, and I have explained mine. In fact, this morning (church day), he did not attend his church, as I told him the night before that I will not attend the church, but I would not stop him if he wanted to go, and I wouldn't even feel bad. I told him, even if I don't attend their church, that doesn't mean I gave up my love for our Lord, since God does not exclusively dwell in their church, and if he decides not to go, he is neither choosing between me or the Lord, but more of my views or his pastor's views. Well, he didn't go to church, but he also was preoccupied with all the ideas I posed before him, perhaps confused. I am not happy with that, coz I want him to do what he feels is right for him or for us. When I asked him what is gonna happen now, coz I'm sure his sister in particular (who is the one who introduced him to this church) would feel bad if he would no longer affiliate himself to this church (by the way, his sister's family and our family live under the same roof), he told me he doesn't know at the moment. But definitely, I will no longer attend their church, I don't feel spiritual growth there. Since he did not attend church today, so he did not tithe. They give tithes every Sunday which is 4 times in a month, and when they attend Bible Study every Wednesday they are also asked to tithe, which is a total of 8 times a month. As regards the issue of lavish lifestyle of the pastor, the fact that there are no concrete programs for the poor or projects where the tithes would be spent, and the absence of an auditor, given that the church is also an organization, clearly indicate that something is not right, the purpose of having a church as an institution that helps the needy is defeated.

Now I wonder what's next... Like this coming Wednesday, or next Sunday...

[Danno 1,228]

Actually, his paying of monthly dues to the church is something that we did not discuss at all when we were just in a relationship. Perhaps he felt that at the time he was single, his tithing was a decision he made for himself. We can not ofcourse help but decide now for both of us, and in marriage, finances is an important area. It is not fully an issue of embracing each other's lifestyle, I suppose when one gets married, he/she has to adjust especially to the changing times and situations. I, myself had changed a lot due to our marital union, and out of love, I had to give way. It boils down to how one explains and understands the other. He has explained his side, and I have explained mine. In fact, this morning (church day), he did not attend his church, as I told him the night before that I will not attend the church, but I would not stop him if he wanted to go, and I wouldn't even feel bad. I told him, even if I don't attend their church, that doesn't mean I gave up my love for our Lord, since God does not exclusively dwell in their church, and if he decides not to go, he is neither choosing between me or the Lord, but more of my views or his pastor's views. Well, he didn't go to church, but he also was preoccupied with all the ideas I posed before him, perhaps confused. I am not happy with that, coz I want him to do what he feels is right for him or for us. When I asked him what is gonna happen now, coz I'm sure his sister in particular (who is the one who introduced him to this church) would feel bad if he would no longer affiliate himself to this church (by the way, his sister's family and our family live under the same roof), he told me he doesn't know at the moment. But definitely, I will no longer attend their church, I don't feel spiritual growth there. Since he did not attend church today, so he did not tithe. They give tithes every Sunday which is 4 times in a month, and when they attend Bible Study every Wednesday they are also asked to tithe, which is a total of 8 times a month. As regards the issue of lavish lifestyle of the pastor, the fact that there are no concrete programs for the poor or projects where the tithes would be spent, and the absence of an auditor, given that the church is also an organization, clearly indicate that something is not right, the purpose of having a church as an institution that helps the needy is defeated.

Now I wonder what's next... Like this coming Wednesday, or next Sunday...

Why don't you suggest "trying" another church next week?

If you didn't know how to barter before you got married, it's time to learn.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Im just putting this out there as another thing for you to think about. Just bcz the offering plate is passed around every Sunday and Wednesday doesnt mean a person is tithing every time. Usually in my family, the tithe is given once a month. Any other time money is put in is offering for other things like the youth, missions, elderly, college fund ect. Yes its passed around every Sunday and Wednesday but that doesnt mean the 10% is given all those times.

Edited April 11, 2011 by ~PalmTreeGurl~

[_Simpson_ 250]

Tithing should be huge focus in churches. A lot productive stuff that churches do cost money.

[B_J 2,752]

Tithing should be huge focus in churches. A lot productive stuff that churches do cost money.

Agreed. But earlier the original poster mentioned a lack of programs for the poor or other projects. If there is a lack of productive stuff; well, then maybe it's time to look at where the funds are going.

I would suggest following Danno's advice and look at other churches. It could be fun visiting other churches and finding one that you enjoy as a couple.

Edited April 11, 2011 by B_J