Odd translation request

[Neonred 3,446]

OK.....let me vet out a few facts.

You are planning a trip.....to meet a lady.......who you have known for how long?

If you are taking the trip so early in your relationship....such that this very major information hasn't already come up in conversation....IMHO, you are traveling too soon.

Or.....if your communications with each other are so basic, because of language....then I think also that your are overstepping the bounds by thinking of visas and marriage at this early stage of your relationship.

IMO, this information should have already been communicated to the lady......and definately not during the first dinner. Are you nuts?

absolutely correct IMO

[~Johnny~ 27]

In addition to the fact that hearing about another woman is not attractive, the fact you were "scammed" is not going to make you seem too attractive either.

Men should not be tricked by silly women. She is looking for a MAN who will make decisions, take control, be clever, make a good living, and give her a "quiet", safe life. She will do her job as a woman. She needs a man who can do a man's job. He earns a living, cares about his family, doesn't get drunk and abusive, doesn't pay attention to other women, devotes himself to his family. She is looking for a husband, father, lover, and handyman. No big deal, any real man can do it.

If you come in and tell her how you were tricked by the silly Philippina (who doesn't speak English well and probably is not well educated)what does that tell her about your ability to provide for her and her children (if she doesn't have children already, she wants them)

As much as we hear about the hot, sexy, educated, high-heel-wearing FSU woman who gives herself to her husband for his pleasure...that sword cuts both ways and she has expectations of the man also. Chief among those, at least in my experience and certainly with Alla...SHE is number one (and ONLY).

Women can panic, men cannot. Women can be scared, men cannot. Women can be unsure and worried, men cannot. Women can get frustrated, hysterical, men cannot. Just be comfortable, confident (not boastful) and assure her that you understand that you do not know each others' languages so well and that if something is said wrong, there is no hard feelings. Even when she learns English well, you will need to be prepared for the fact that FSU women are direct and blunt and consider it rude not to be direct and blunt. Deal with it.

Thanks Gary, All great advice!

[~Johnny~ 27]

OK.....let me vet out a few facts.

You are planning a trip.....to meet a lady.......who you have known for how long?

If you are taking the trip so early in your relationship....such that this very major information hasn't already come up in conversation....IMHO, you are traveling too soon.

Or.....if your communications with each other are so basic, because of language....then I think also that your are overstepping the bounds by thinking of visas and marriage at this early stage of your relationship.

IMO, this information should have already been communicated to the lady......and definately not during the first dinner. Are you nuts?

So you are saying after 3 months of chat, correspondence, and webcam, that a visit is too soon to even see if there's magic??? Even if it's just to meet someone to see if you have chemsistry,,, NOT propose marriage?? I have other plans too in case this falls through, but this wasn't my posted question was about. I am a person that can not just rely on electrons moving through the computer to feel whether a relationship can move forward. I need to look in the eyes and try to feel in person if there's real magic. If so, then several more trips will follow. But I don't see anywhere in my post where I mentioned that she is THE one and I'm in love. If during this first meeting we don't have the magic, then I have no problems in excusing myself and finding the nearest Pub and enjoying the rest of my vacation. What is your suggestion? I write someone for a year, never meeting and making sure we know absolutely everything about each others past before we meet? She already knows I'm divorced and my divorce history NEVER came up as a question of discussion during our talks.

Isn't the whole point to NOT be the one who sits on his ####### and thinks about doing it? But to be the one goes out and has the experience of a lifetime. People can explain to me over and over about Ukraine, but until I've been there, walked the streets and seen it, I can only get a fictitious image in my mind of someone's else's idea of Ukraine. My only question in this post was related to the need for a translated history of my divorce to better explain in Ukraine. Thank you for your extra assumptions and insight.

[eekee 182]

I would just say you're divorced and move on. Women don't really want to hear about the exes.

[baron555 934]

So you are saying after 3 months of chat, correspondence, and webcam, that a visit is too soon to even see if there's magic???

No, this is just about right; it's what my wife and I did.

Even if it's just to meet someone to see if you have chemsistry,,, NOT propose marriage??

Then stop thinking about visas; it's too soon....or is it? Remember you both should have a nice relationship before you talk visa.

I have other plans too in case this falls through,

As I just said. Dont' think too far ahead of the process. (Maybe you did that the time before?)

She already knows I'm divorced and my divorce history NEVER came up as a question of discussion during our talks.

OK, then you are finished with the subject. Done. No more talk about it. None needed. Talk only about her and yourself and maybe yourselves together.

My wife and I both were married before. She and I have told each other some of the minor details but never dwell on it and it doesn't come up in conversation. Never.

Gary's advice is spot on. She will want you to be the Man. Talk about your good qualities (and it's OK to admit to some minor learning experiences in your past) but she will want a person that can learn from them and quickly move on.....and not make the same mistakes again.

I think you are doing just fine.....just keep the past in the past and talk about the future.

Edited February 27, 2011 by baron555

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So you are saying after 3 months of chat, correspondence, and webcam, that a visit is too soon to even see if there's magic??? Even if it's just to meet someone to see if you have chemsistry,,, NOT propose marriage?? I have other plans too in case this falls through, but this wasn't my posted question was about. I am a person that can not just rely on electrons moving through the computer to feel whether a relationship can move forward. I need to look in the eyes and try to feel in person if there's real magic. If so, then several more trips will follow. But I don't see anywhere in my post where I mentioned that she is THE one and I'm in love. If during this first meeting we don't have the magic, then I have no problems in excusing myself and finding the nearest Pub and enjoying the rest of my vacation. What is your suggestion? I write someone for a year, never meeting and making sure we know absolutely everything about each others past before we meet? She already knows I'm divorced and my divorce history NEVER came up as a question of discussion during our talks.

Isn't the whole point to NOT be the one who sits on his ####### and thinks about doing it? But to be the one goes out and has the experience of a lifetime. People can explain to me over and over about Ukraine, but until I've been there, walked the streets and seen it, I can only get a fictitious image in my mind of someone's else's idea of Ukraine. My only question in this post was related to the need for a translated history of my divorce to better explain in Ukraine. Thank you for your extra assumptions and insight.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone knew how long you have been talking to someone, besides I leave that to you two to decide. As for me, I knew within an hour Alla would be my wife. She took until the next day (she is slow sometimes) and I had never laid eyes on her or spoken to her before I met her. I don't think anyone meant any offense. Being direct is contagious.

In our case, obviously, we were both previously married. We do not talk about our ex's. We never did really.

Ona is correct, EVEN IF SHE ASKS do not discuss former wives, girlfriends, etc. It is OK to discuss children, if any, it is actually BETTER to discuss your children. Alla has asked me about "how many girlfriends" I had when I lived in Odessa. (she asked this well after we were married) I DO NOT answer. I CAN NOT answer those questions and she does not get mad. I just tell her that I "forgot" and that since I met her none of that matters (true) While they are mostly direct and honest, they will say things like "You don't have to buy me flowers for Women's Day" but they will be extremely happy if you do. You have to do things because you WANT to do them, not because you "have to". If she asks about your ex-wife or girlfriend, best not to WANT to talk about it, even though you "CAN".

In our first few months of talking, I think the topics were children, interests, careers, travel experiences, life in the USA and lots of questions about that, etc. Pretty tame stuff but important stuff.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So OK, I admit, Eekee and Ona are more succinct than I.

As far as "hiding" goes. I think if you told her something to "hide" something, ie, "a lie" that is wrong. No doubt. But we are all adults and we all know that both people had lives before and then by some chance (fate, internet, marriage agency, whatever) we met each other. Nothing you did before has any bearing on now (unless you were a maniac woman killer or something, yeah she should know about that)

I think all of us who are old enough (and I am old enough and I think you are also) have been scammed, ripped off, snookered, tricked, did stupid things, had our private parts in a few more places than may look good on a resume. It isn't "lying" to meet someone and not tell them just everything right off, or ever, maybe. I am SURE, dead SURE, Alla would not want to hear everything I have done, said, etc. in all my life. I am equally SURE she would tell you I am a great husband, pure GOLD, and the best father in the world and that I have kept every promise I ever told her and did everything I ever said I would do and that she feels like I am devoted to her and the children (who I treat exactly like my own, just as I said I would and make no distinction to anyone ever)

Besides, the language thing is texture! Where would we be without Slim's hilarious repeats of his wife's rants? What about "Vooowhat!" "Lub" "and what?" etc.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Sweet Lord! 50,000 pages of detailed advice already. DO you think we have opinions we need to share

I agree with Gary's comment in post #15 (a few hours and a million words ago) about Eastern European Women having some double standards insofar as emotional displays, etc. It does, in my experience, cut both ways - with benefits attached for dealing with the stress I also agree with all the many many statements about not telling too much about your history too soon. Really, isn't that common sense for any new relationship? Talk about your daughter, your relationship with your family, etc. Do not talk about money at all, or your car, or how big your house is, because it is rude. If she asks about any of that, tell her you will email a picture of where you live later.

Be prepared for some different customs while courting too. Men are supposed to chase, women run.

My wife refused to discuss money at all before she arrived. She refused to spend any time calling me (first), or initiating contact. It was my responsibility to engage her and convince her that a relationship was worthwhile, especially when she wouldn't respond. She expected a fair amount of patience when she was out of touch, or acting weird. There were very few questions about past relationships. I still make the call on most financial issues - meaning I have to figure out how to pay

One major difference I see in our relationship and some others I read about here is that I don't tolerate much hysteria. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but displays of bad temper don't sit well, and I tend not to let them pass without comment. I read here that lots of men (in particular) just put up with it though. I really don't care what a Ukrainian guy would do either. Best to address that issue early on (but not on your first trip ).

Edited February 27, 2011 by Brad and Vika

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I still make the call on most financial issues - meaning I have to figure out how to pay

#######! I just figured out...I have been tricked!

[Brad and Vika 129]

#######! I just figured out...I have been tricked!

You should take action immediately!!! I don't know what it might be or anything.... just saying.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You should take action immediately!!! I don't know what it might be or anything.... just saying.

[slim 1,514]

I'm with the rest of these guys - don't tell her squat.

Just let her know how rich you are, how big your sausage is, and how much you want to make her the happiest woman in the world. That's all she really wants to hear anyway.

Oh, and whatever you do, don't flirt with the translator.

[~Johnny~ 27]

My wife and I both were married before. She and I have told each other some of the minor details but never dwell on it and it doesn't come up in conversation. Never.

Gary's advice is spot on. She will want you to be the Man. Talk about your good qualities (and it's OK to admit to some minor learning experiences in your past) but she will want a person that can learn from them and quickly move on.....and not make the same mistakes again.

I think you are doing just fine.....just keep the past in the past and talk about the future.

Hey thanks for comments! I hope I wasn't too snappy in my earlier response. I have many things in my head now and it's a bit of work sorting through this mess. I am trying to not repeat any past mistakes. Maybe she just never thought any more about my divorce and moved into future thoughts. It's a bit different dealing with Ukraine women...

The biggest take away I got so far is "the man should be the man" and "looking into the future not the past." I think that's good advice especially since for many years in our culture, we're programmed to NOT be the man. I'll leave that point be...because it gets into flaming issues.

I didn't expect so many comments... I was playing a pre Mardis Gras show yesterday with my band, so I been out of reality for a bit. I'll have to read the rest here and see what folks have suggested for my journey.

Thanks

[~Johnny~ 27]

Well thanks for the good suggestions....not sure if I'm smarter now or worse.

I think maybe I was looking too far into this with my previous K1-scam-divorce issue, especially since I'm just meeting this new girl in person in about a month. Longer term plans, who knows?? In the past 3 months, I've only been asked once about being divorced and I said yes, divorced 2 times. And nothing else was ever asked. Honestly, I was planning a trip for April/May but just couldn't pass up R/T air from New Orleans to Kiev for $587. The only issue was the trip had to be in March. So I bumped vacation plans up a bit. I got an apartment, based on old posts here in RUB forum, at Kievrent and they are sending a car to the airport. The agency offered apartments but their cost was about double for what appears to be less quality digs. The agency also said they could send a car to the airport with an English speaking driver, but $75, I said no thanks...and got it through Kievrent for $30. I have a nice 2 room flat for $89/night near the Opera house and next to some popular Pub called Eric's. At the moment I'm planning to start off the visit with the one girl, but if I sense no magic after our first meet then, I'll be honest with her and I'll go into backup plans.

When I first scheduled the trip, I told her it would be nice to meet the night when I arrive as I'll be too excited to go to my apartment and rest. I get in Kiev at 5pm. She wanted me to rest and meet the next day for breakfast and spend the whole day together. I said, well when I get in I can take a shower and then just visit Eric's Pub for a little while....she instantly did a reversal and said..."I can't leave you alone there, I'll meet you when you arrive and we'll go have dinner." Maybe she's worried about me meeting other girls?

Well, thanks for the comments. You have no idea how much help some of this is. It means that as far as dating goes, it's a re-thinking process on how to conduct yourself compared to western ways.

Edited February 28, 2011 by ~Johnny~

[baron555 934]

I didn't expect so many comments... I was playing a pre Mardis Gras show yesterday with my band, so I been out of reality for a bit. I'll have to read the rest here and see what folks have suggested for my journey.

Thanks

We all have lots of comments...and understand that under the RUB Forum rules of engagement, after the first page of comments on a thread, it is accepted to derail the thread into a totally different line of thought....guns and pie are always involved.

Don't forget to bring a single red rose all the way from your city, with you on the plane, to give to her at the first sight of her.

Do not buy in the airport but bring it from home. Even battle-worn, you WILL earn big big points.

She WILL know how to repay you !!!!! Here's hoping your heart can take it......your life will definately change if you pursue this woman.