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Derek.G

Help with bad past

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
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We are now waiting for our NOA 2 and all the fun that brings when everything goes to London.

My problem is with my past and whether it will catch up with me.

I was arrested for various offences that were petty and only involved fines and community service, the last offence being over ten years ago.

Will I have to go for a pre-interview to discuss this, or do I discuss this at the main interview in London?


Derek & Dawn's Personal Timeline

06-01-2010 - I129-F sent

06-02-2010 - I129-F signed for and received at VSC

06-03-2010 - NOA1 date

06-08-2010 - Check cashed

06-10-2010 - Case in initial review on USCIS site

06-12-2010 - Hard copy of NOA1 received in the post

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: China
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most will be 'found' in the police clearance certificate that you'll obtain prior to interview day.


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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Thailand
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We are now waiting for our NOA 2 and all the fun that brings when everything goes to London.

My problem is with my past and whether it will catch up with me.

I was arrested for various offences that were petty and only involved fines and community service, the last offence being over ten years ago.

Will I have to go for a pre-interview to discuss this, or do I discuss this at the main interview in London?

Be sure to make the proper truthful disclosures on the DS-156 which may also cover some of the information. Failure to disclose material facts is a serious offense.

Good luck.


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We are now waiting for our NOA 2 and all the fun that brings when everything goes to London.

My problem is with my past and whether it will catch up with me.

I was arrested for various offenses that were petty and only involved fines and community service, the last offense being over ten years ago.

Will I have to go for a pre-interview to discuss this, or do I discuss this at the main interview in London?

Hi Derek

Ok I am in a similar position however my last offense was 25 years ago, what you need to do is the following:

1 - Obtain your police records, you can download the form on-line and take it to a police station for them to forward to the section that will pull off a copy of your entire police record going back to when you were 15.

2 - Obtain a police certificate, this can be ordered and received within 10 days, this will state if you have a record, if you are clear of convictions or if any are outstanding, (Get 2 copies).

3 - Look through your police records which can take up to 30 days to arrive, now you need to go to each court that you will have attended for each offense and obtain the court records for the offenses listed on the police records. (These must tie-up otherwise problems will happen in your case)

4 - Get as many people as can to write personal references and if you have any Police or Magistrate friends then these will be even more supportive of case, employer reference is also a good idea to show that they were aware of your previous history and yet still employed you and put you in a trusting position, this helps show rehabilitation.

Normally the USCIS like to see 15 years since the last offense as this can automatically show rehabilitation in their eyes, however with a good lawyer and a very good I-601 prepared in time for your interview date, you will have a good chance of showing that you are rehabilitated.

I am sure that your case will be denied initially due to the crimes that you mentioned, however a waiver will be available to overcome this issue.. Please note that it will take several months to go through the K1 process, and if you have the I-601 prepared before the Interview then there will be no delay in submitting a waiver at the Interview, this cuts down on the delay and then be prepared to wait several more months for the adjudication of your I-601 waiver.

Hopefully you have not traveled to the USA on the Visa Waiver Program and stated on the landing card that you have never committed any crimes involving moral turpitude, because if you said NO like I did, as I thought that it did not pertain to my minor crimes when young, then you will have committed immigration fraud which will carry a penalty of a Mis-Representation charge which will require a waiver (I-601) to overcome this other more important issue.

My advice is seek out a good lawyer that specializes in I-601 Waivers... Sorry to put a dampener on your exciting new journey, but it is better to be prepared and know what is in store so that you and your Partner can set your expectations.

Take care

Andrew :thumbs:


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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Vietnam
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We can't know for certain if an I-601 is required unless we know what the offenses were. If none of the offenses were 'crimes of moral turpitude', and none of the offenses are covered by specific sections of INA 212(a)(2) (drug trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking, etc.), then an I-601 is probably not required.

Derek, to begin with, you need to give us a bullet list of the offenses you were convicted of.


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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
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We can't know for certain if an I-601 is required unless we know what the offenses were. If none of the offenses were 'crimes of moral turpitude', and none of the offenses are covered by specific sections of INA 212(a)(2) (drug trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking, etc.), then an I-601 is probably not required.

Derek, to begin with, you need to give us a bullet list of the offenses you were convicted of.

Offences were for petty theft. I have around nine charges for this and one case of drink driving going back many years. My life was in tatters at that time and I am not the person I was then. I would hate for things to be held up because of a reckless past.


Derek & Dawn's Personal Timeline

06-01-2010 - I129-F sent

06-02-2010 - I129-F signed for and received at VSC

06-03-2010 - NOA1 date

06-08-2010 - Check cashed

06-10-2010 - Case in initial review on USCIS site

06-12-2010 - Hard copy of NOA1 received in the post

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Offenses were for petty theft. I have around nine charges for this and one case of drink driving going back many years. My life was in tatters at that time and I am not the person I was then. I would hate for things to be held up because of a reckless past.

Hi Derek

Now that you have listed some of the types of crimes you have committed it is a bit clearer, as petty theft is considered as Larceny in the USA as a misdemeanor and grand theft is considered as Larceny as well but as a felony.

Also can you tell us if you have visited the USA on the Visa Waiver Program since you have committed these crimes, and if so did you say YES or NO to the question regarding "Have you ever committed a crime involving moral turpitude" as this will determine what type of waiver you will require? and from what you have stated so far it looks like you will be denied the K1 visa based on just the crimes alone, but a mis-rep charge may also be added if you have been to the USA without declaring your previous criminal history.

Please read this text that we have found to explain the meaning of theft:

"theft n. the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale). In many states, if the value of the property taken is low (for example, less than $500) the crime is "petty theft," but it is "grand theft" for larger amounts, designated misdemeanor, or felony, respectively. Theft is synonymous with "larceny." Although robbery (taking by force), burglary (taken by entering unlawfully), and embezzlement (stealing from an employer) are all commonly thought of as theft, they are distinguished by the means and methods used, and are separately designated as those types of crimes in criminal charges and statutory punishments."

I would also recommend reading the following document produced for USCIS staff to determine grounds of inadmissibility: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Here are a couple of relevant passages:

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.2 Defining “Moral Turpitude”

(CT:VISA-753; 06-29-2005)

Statutory definitions of crimes in the United States consist of various

elements, which must be met before a conviction can be supported. Some

of these elements have been determined in judicial or administrative

decisions to involve moral turpitude. A conviction for a statutory offense will

involve moral turpitude if one or more of the elements of that offense have

been determined to involve moral turpitude. The most common elements

involving moral turpitude are:

(1) Fraud;

(2) Larceny;

(3) Intent to harm persons or thing."

and

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.3-1 Crimes Committed Against Property

(CT:VISA-1318; 09-24-2009)

a. Most crimes committed against property that involve moral turpitude

include the element of fraud. The act of fraud involves moral turpitude

whether it is aimed against individuals or government. Fraud generally

involves:

(1) Making false representation;

(2) Knowledge of such false representation by the perpetrator;

(3) Reliance on the false representation by the person defrauded;

(4) An intent to defraud; and

(5) The actual act of committing fraud

b. Other crimes committed against property involving moral turpitude

involve an inherently evil intent, such as the act of arson. The following

list comprises crimes frequently committed against property, which may

be held to involve moral turpitude for the purposes of visa issuance:

(1) Arson;

(2) Blackmail;

(3) Burglary;

(4) Embezzlement;

(5) Extortion;

(6) False pretenses;

(7) Forgery;

(8) Fraud;

(9) Larceny (grand or petty);

(10) Malicious destruction of property;

(11) Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge);"

We are here to try and help you, so the more you tell us the more we can help point you in the right direction, however you must also be truthful otherwise you will get incorrect information and waste your time as well as ours.

Good luck

Andrew :thumbs:


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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
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Hi Derek

Now that you have listed some of the types of crimes you have committed it is a bit clearer, as petty theft is considered as Larceny in the USA as a misdemeanor and grand theft is considered as Larceny as well but as a felony.

Also can you tell us if you have visited the USA on the Visa Waiver Program since you have committed these crimes, and if so did you say YES or NO to the question regarding "Have you ever committed a crime involving moral turpitude" as this will determine what type of waiver you will require? and from what you have stated so far it looks like you will be denied the K1 visa based on just the crimes alone, but a mis-rep charge may also be added if you have been to the USA without declaring your previous criminal history.

Please read this text that we have found to explain the meaning of theft:

"theft n. the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale). In many states, if the value of the property taken is low (for example, less than $500) the crime is "petty theft," but it is "grand theft" for larger amounts, designated misdemeanor, or felony, respectively. Theft is synonymous with "larceny." Although robbery (taking by force), burglary (taken by entering unlawfully), and embezzlement (stealing from an employer) are all commonly thought of as theft, they are distinguished by the means and methods used, and are separately designated as those types of crimes in criminal charges and statutory punishments."

I would also recommend reading the following document produced for USCIS staff to determine grounds of inadmissibility: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Here are a couple of relevant passages:

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.2 Defining “Moral Turpitude”

(CT:VISA-753; 06-29-2005)

Statutory definitions of crimes in the United States consist of various

elements, which must be met before a conviction can be supported. Some

of these elements have been determined in judicial or administrative

decisions to involve moral turpitude. A conviction for a statutory offense will

involve moral turpitude if one or more of the elements of that offense have

been determined to involve moral turpitude. The most common elements

involving moral turpitude are:

(1) Fraud;

(2) Larceny;

(3) Intent to harm persons or thing."

and

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.3-1 Crimes Committed Against Property

(CT:VISA-1318; 09-24-2009)

a. Most crimes committed against property that involve moral turpitude

include the element of fraud. The act of fraud involves moral turpitude

whether it is aimed against individuals or government. Fraud generally

involves:

(1) Making false representation;

(2) Knowledge of such false representation by the perpetrator;

(3) Reliance on the false representation by the person defrauded;

(4) An intent to defraud; and

(5) The actual act of committing fraud

b. Other crimes committed against property involving moral turpitude

involve an inherently evil intent, such as the act of arson. The following

list comprises crimes frequently committed against property, which may

be held to involve moral turpitude for the purposes of visa issuance:

(1) Arson;

(2) Blackmail;

(3) Burglary;

(4) Embezzlement;

(5) Extortion;

(6) False pretenses;

(7) Forgery;

(8) Fraud;

(9) Larceny (grand or petty);

(10) Malicious destruction of property;

(11) Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge);"

We are here to try and help you, so the more you tell us the more we can help point you in the right direction, however you must also be truthful otherwise you will get incorrect information and waste your time as well as ours.

Good luck

Andrew :thumbs:

Hi Andrew,

Yes, all my offences come under the larceny umbrella, and also I am guilty of the mis-rep with visa waiver. All the crimes on that part suggested it was derious crime only.

Thanks for all your help

Derek


Derek & Dawn's Personal Timeline

06-01-2010 - I129-F sent

06-02-2010 - I129-F signed for and received at VSC

06-03-2010 - NOA1 date

06-08-2010 - Check cashed

06-10-2010 - Case in initial review on USCIS site

06-12-2010 - Hard copy of NOA1 received in the post

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
Timeline

Hi Derek

Now that you have listed some of the types of crimes you have committed it is a bit clearer, as petty theft is considered as Larceny in the USA as a misdemeanor and grand theft is considered as Larceny as well but as a felony.

Also can you tell us if you have visited the USA on the Visa Waiver Program since you have committed these crimes, and if so did you say YES or NO to the question regarding "Have you ever committed a crime involving moral turpitude" as this will determine what type of waiver you will require? and from what you have stated so far it looks like you will be denied the K1 visa based on just the crimes alone, but a mis-rep charge may also be added if you have been to the USA without declaring your previous criminal history.

Please read this text that we have found to explain the meaning of theft:

"theft n. the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale). In many states, if the value of the property taken is low (for example, less than $500) the crime is "petty theft," but it is "grand theft" for larger amounts, designated misdemeanor, or felony, respectively. Theft is synonymous with "larceny." Although robbery (taking by force), burglary (taken by entering unlawfully), and embezzlement (stealing from an employer) are all commonly thought of as theft, they are distinguished by the means and methods used, and are separately designated as those types of crimes in criminal charges and statutory punishments."

I would also recommend reading the following document produced for USCIS staff to determine grounds of inadmissibility: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Here are a couple of relevant passages:

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.2 Defining “Moral Turpitude”

(CT:VISA-753; 06-29-2005)

Statutory definitions of crimes in the United States consist of various

elements, which must be met before a conviction can be supported. Some

of these elements have been determined in judicial or administrative

decisions to involve moral turpitude. A conviction for a statutory offense will

involve moral turpitude if one or more of the elements of that offense have

been determined to involve moral turpitude. The most common elements

involving moral turpitude are:

(1) Fraud;

(2) Larceny;

(3) Intent to harm persons or thing."

and

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.3-1 Crimes Committed Against Property

(CT:VISA-1318; 09-24-2009)

a. Most crimes committed against property that involve moral turpitude

include the element of fraud. The act of fraud involves moral turpitude

whether it is aimed against individuals or government. Fraud generally

involves:

(1) Making false representation;

(2) Knowledge of such false representation by the perpetrator;

(3) Reliance on the false representation by the person defrauded;

(4) An intent to defraud; and

(5) The actual act of committing fraud

b. Other crimes committed against property involving moral turpitude

involve an inherently evil intent, such as the act of arson. The following

list comprises crimes frequently committed against property, which may

be held to involve moral turpitude for the purposes of visa issuance:

(1) Arson;

(2) Blackmail;

(3) Burglary;

(4) Embezzlement;

(5) Extortion;

(6) False pretenses;

(7) Forgery;

(8) Fraud;

(9) Larceny (grand or petty);

(10) Malicious destruction of property;

(11) Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge);"

We are here to try and help you, so the more you tell us the more we can help point you in the right direction, however you must also be truthful otherwise you will get incorrect information and waste your time as well as ours.

Good luck

Andrew :thumbs:

Thank you so much for the advice Anderw. I have told Derek his first step should be to get a police certificate and see what shows up on it. I also told him that during a background check, ones not listed might possibly show up in other ways, so he needs to be willing to be completely honest and admit freely to any bad behaviour he's responsible for, so it doesn't trip him up worse by not disclosing anything.

I myself have a question conserning Derek's situation.

I have had a glance at the form I-601 and it's instructions. If he does have to file this, can he tick the lines for his crimes as well as him having ticked NO on his travel documents? It does say select all that apply. Does this mean he can do it all on one I-601 or will he have to file seperately for each?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Derek's fiancee'

Dawn


Derek & Dawn's Personal Timeline

06-01-2010 - I129-F sent

06-02-2010 - I129-F signed for and received at VSC

06-03-2010 - NOA1 date

06-08-2010 - Check cashed

06-10-2010 - Case in initial review on USCIS site

06-12-2010 - Hard copy of NOA1 received in the post

10-04-2010 - NOA2 APPROVED! Posted by USCIS

10-05-2010 - Received email notification of NOA2 APPROVED!

10-08-2010 - Hard copy of NOA2 received saying paperwork is on the way to London, England consulate

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Hi Andrew,

Yes, all my offenses come under the larceny umbrella, and also I am guilty of the mis-rep with visa waiver. All the crimes on that part suggested it was serious crime only.

Thanks for all your help

Derek

Hi Derek

In that case I would do what I said in my previous post regarding collecting all your past criminal history files, like police records, police certificates and your court records and make an appointment with a good I-601 Waiver lawyer and he/she will be able to tell you your chances based on whatever hardship criteria you may have.. I urge you to get this under way now as it will take some time for your Lawyer to put together a good waiver package and to save time you will want to present this at the end of the K1 interview when they deny you entry or alternately you could drop the K1 Visa and get married over here in the UK and then apply for a K3 married Visa as the hardship waiver is stronger on a K3 rather than a K1 because you will have a US spouse and in-laws/step-children, but a K1 you will only have a Fiancée which is a far weaker position to be in.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I was in exactly the same boat as you when I started this 2.5 years ago, we got denied on the K1 so we decided to get married over in the UK which took 2 days for my USC wife to get a visa to enter the UK to marry me, after this we filed a K3 visa, got denied again which we expected but then filed the waiver and we are still waiting, but I did not have the support of this forum which would have saved us the K1 waiting period as we would have gone straight for the K3 if we had known.

Anyway good luck and if you need any pointers just ask.

Regards

Andrew :thumbs:


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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
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Hi Derek

In that case I would do what I said in my previous post regarding collecting all your past criminal history files, like police records, police certificates and your court records and make an appointment with a good I-601 Waiver lawyer and he/she will be able to tell you your chances based on whatever hardship criteria you may have.. I urge you to get this under way now as it will take some time for your Lawyer to put together a good waiver package and to save time you will want to present this at the end of the K1 interview when they deny you entry or alternately you could drop the K1 Visa and get married over here in the UK and then apply for a K3 married Visa as the hardship waiver is stronger on a K3 rather than a K1 because you will have a US spouse and in-laws/step-children, but a K1 you will only have a Fiancée which is a far weaker position to be in.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I was in exactly the same boat as you when I started this 2.5 years ago, we got denied on the K1 so we decided to get married over in the UK which took 2 days for my USC wife to get a visa to enter the UK to marry me, after this we filed a K3 visa, got denied again which we expected but then filed the waiver and we are still waiting, but I did not have the support of this forum which would have saved us the K1 waiting period as we would have gone straight for the K3 if we had known.

Anyway good luck and if you need any pointers just ask.

Regards

Andrew :thumbs:

Andrew,

We had thought of getting married over there, but were given information that meant I would have to be in the UK for at least a month in order to have a registered marriage ceremony. I am a single mother of four boys (2 still live at home and attend school) as well as I have a full time job that pays the bills and I can't just drop financing our household to disappear for a month. Is there a faster, easier way to get legally married in the UK on the proper visa paperwork allowing me to marry Derek there?

Thanks,

Dawn


Derek & Dawn's Personal Timeline

06-01-2010 - I129-F sent

06-02-2010 - I129-F signed for and received at VSC

06-03-2010 - NOA1 date

06-08-2010 - Check cashed

06-10-2010 - Case in initial review on USCIS site

06-12-2010 - Hard copy of NOA1 received in the post

10-04-2010 - NOA2 APPROVED! Posted by USCIS

10-05-2010 - Received email notification of NOA2 APPROVED!

10-08-2010 - Hard copy of NOA2 received saying paperwork is on the way to London, England consulate

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Thank you so much for the advice Andeee. I have told Derek his first step should be to get a police certificate and see what shows up on it. I also told him that during a background check, ones not listed might possibly show up in other ways, so he needs to be willing to be completely honest and admit freely to any bad behavior he's responsible for, so it doesn't trip him up worse by not disclosing anything.

I myself have a question concerning Derek's situation.

I have had a glance at the form I-601 and it's instructions. If he does have to file this, can he tick the lines for his crimes as well as him having ticked NO on his travel documents? It does say select all that apply. Does this mean he can do it all on one I-601 or will he have to file separately for each?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Derek's fiancée'

Dawn

Hi Dawn

First of all the Police certificate will only tell you one of three things, 1 = No Data (No Criminal Past on Record) 2 = No Live Trace (Criminal Past but Nothing Outstanding or Current) 3 = Live Trace (Ongoing charges to be made or Criminal history not yet exceeded statute of limitation date).. This will inform the embassy that he has a criminal past, but if he has done nothing illegal in the last 10 years as per his post, then he will get a "No Live Trace" which indicates he has a history... The embassy will then expect to see his Police Records which is different from the certificate as it lists all the crimes from the age of 15 to date, he can then disclose all the crimes listed on this report, after all this is what the US Embassy is going to work from, if you do know of something else that is not listed then it would not be a good idea to mention it as the Embassy will require documentation for the offense which will be hard to get if it is not listed on the official police report... All the court records then need to be collected for Every Offense. This takes time and money as all these reports and court records are chargeable.

Only 1 I-601 is required to cover both the Criminal history and the potential Mis-Rep that he will be given at the interview, it is a 90% chance that he will get the Mis-Rep charge in London as this is most common.

Police Certificate Link: Police Certificate

Police Criminal History Check Link: Subject Access

Wishing you all the best :thumbs:

Andrew


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Andrew,

We had thought of getting married over there, but were given information that meant I would have to be in the UK for at least a month in order to have a registered marriage ceremony. I am a single mother of four boys (2 still live at home and attend school) as well as I have a full time job that pays the bills and I can't just drop financing our household to disappear for a month. Is there a faster, easier way to get legally married in the UK on the proper visa paperwork allowing me to marry Derek there?

Thanks,

Dawn

Hi Dawn

The way it works in the UK for marriages is as follows, you must reside in the area for a period of 7 whole days (Not including the day you arrive) then on the 8th day you can give notice which takes 15 whole days and then an available date must be booked at the registration office to carry out the ceremony. So this takes a minimum of 23 Days but maybe up to 30 depending on bookings. A link to a wedding procedure website is here: Wedding Procedure UK

There is no fast track way of doing this, and you must be present during this whole time as they check your passport for you leaving the UK during this period as well as looking to make sure you have the correct Wedding Visa in your passport.

I know it is a pain in the backside, however trust me when I say that it will knock several Months if not a Year off of your time apart.. another factor is that if you were to get married in the USA with Derek travelling over on a Tourist Visa, he will face a far greater problem as this will also become another Mis-Rep charge.. so be careful.

I would try and make it a holiday and honeymoon all in one, 2 weeks holiday and 2 weeks honeymoon.. I know that financially it will hurt, but it depends on what you want at the end of the day, a faster way to be together or save some money/pain.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Andrew :thumbs:


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or, get married in Canada, Mexico, Bermuda...

I would rule out Mexico due to most flights from the UK have to stop off in the USA to Re-Fuel or pickup more passengers, therefore requiring the UK citizen to travel freely on the Visa Waiver Program which in this case he is unable to.. As for Bermuda.. I would not do this as I would want to know that my marriage certificate was valid for immigration and I am not sure if Bermuda is a valid location for this.. Canada on the other hand seems like a very good choice as you only seem to need to obtain a marriage license costing $130 Canadian Dollars and then you can get married at anytime.. well that was my take on the research i just did, I could be wrong.

But good suggestion.. note that if either of you have been married before then the Canadian authority will require a minimum of 4 weeks notice to check the marriages are dissolved along with documented proof.

Regards

Andrew :thumbs:


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