Science will win religion!

[Niels Bohr 72]

God don't exist. Period.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

God don't exist. Period.

There is your one in a hundred, Steven.

[Peikko 1,575]

The premise that science cannot quantify the Divine would mean you have already made the assumption that God would have to be something quite distinct within all that exists. That would be a self-imposed imitation of whoever has come to that conclusion, not science in general, or any religion in particular. For instance, certain religions do not distinguish between Creator and Creation, while other religions hold that forces of nature, which are quite tangible, are divine themselves. Hippies worship Mother Earth, and trees, and dolphins. Does that not make them Divine by definition? All these things exist within the Universe.

I do not think you are being clear in what you are trying to say, certainly I am not clear about it.

Are you saying that spirituality can exist in everything that we have knowledge of already in the sense that its very existence makes it devine because we have no knowledge of the why of the universe? I see no contradiction against science in such a belief, it does not challenge anything that scientific explanations of existence have come up with so far. What is is; is in all ways that have any relevance, the why is superfluous.

However, to be honest most people's definition of religion and religious is somewhat other - for most there has to be a 'supernatural' component, an omnipotent being that exists in some dimension or form as yet undiscovered by science that is able to perform literally miraculous deeds that are beneficial for those humans that comport themselves in a manner pleasing to this being, furthermore that this being can transpose those who comport themselves in this pleasing manner into an eternal version of themselves that has some recognizable meaning to the person that they are in human form and that this eternal otherness will be sublime, further that those who do not comport themselves in this pleasing manner can be transposed in a similar manner, but must endure an eternal otherness that is perpetual torture of some form or another.

Nothing in our present understanding of life, the universe and everything indicates that such a thing is possible, and it's certainly not necessary to explain what is observable and what is predictable. Indeed, science pretty much exludes the possibility - unless of course all the theories are complete bunk, which is of course possible if you consider the completely illogical to be equally valid with that which we know to be logical. What I can't work out is how the predictable can be mapped so succinctly with mathematical forumlae if such possibilities are real in the sense that we understand reality. My understanding is that if some component is missing from a mathematical explanation, the math does not work.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Nothing in Madame Cleo's present understanding of life, the universe and everything indicates that such a thing is possible,

Since when do you speak for all of science, and what is understood, or not understood? That journey is personal. Just because you cannot find the Divine in your world, does not necessarily mean He is not there, or perhaps He is only found in those worlds that welcome Him.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

God don't exist. Period.

you've never been in a foxhole, have you?

[Pooky 3,343]

I think it's about time to inject some sense and reasoning into this debate ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcncPpQ8loA

... NOT.

[Peikko 1,575]

Since when do you speak for all of science, and what is understood, or not understood? That journey is personal. Just because you cannot find the Divine in your world, does not necessarily mean He is not there, or perhaps He is only found in those worlds that welcome Him.

Nothing to do with me, everything to do with current evidence - there is none that gives any indication at all that god exists or indeed is required to exist to explain the known word. What you choose to believe is up to you, but science can not and does not require the existence of any kind of supreme and supernatural being. You will notice, or not, that I do not find the belief of others hilarious - if a belief in something devine helps you live your life that is great, I have no wish at all to dissuade you from your belief. I find it an interesting topic, nothing more sinister than that.

[Peikko 1,575]

you've never been in a foxhole, have you?

A foxhole believer is a pathetic creature. It is natural to be wary and even fearful of the process of death - pain and suffering are not enjoyable experiences but everyone has to go through that, whether or not they believe in anything beyond death.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Proof is on the heads of those who make the hold the belief. Faith is belief in the absence of proof. Simple really.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

A foxhole believer is a pathetic creature. It is natural to be wary and even fearful of the process of death - pain and suffering are not enjoyable experiences but everyone has to go through that, whether or not they believe in anything beyond death.

nice that you speak about the foot soldier that way

[Niels Bohr 72]

I wouldn't pray to God for savior.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

I wouldn't pray to God for savior.

maybe these guys instead? please hold......