Assets

[BirdyGirl85 23]

Hello. First of all, I apologize if this topic doesn't belong here, but I'm not sure where else it would go. Moderators feel free to move this topic if you believe it is more appropriate somewhere else.

So, I guess I have some questions about assets and people's opinions on whether or not I need a co-sponsor. I am the USC. I don't make a lot of money. I do not make enough to meet the 125% of the Poverty Line. But, I own a house that is probably worth $200,000 to $220,000, or more. I'm not sure how to prove to the U.S. Embassy how much the house is worth, but people have told me to get a real estate agent to come and give me an estimate. So at the very least, a fifth of of $200,000 is $40,000. I will have around $16,000 or more in my bank account, so a fifth of that is $3,200. My fiance Petteri is saving a lot of money right now, and plans to to have $20,000 by the time he moves. He is planning on telling the consulate at the interview that he has the much money, but I don't know if they will care or not how much he has, but that will go towards our money together. Now my question is, do you think they will deny him because I don't make much money, even though I have own a house worth that much? I'm kind of worried about this. If I have to, I'll try to get a co-sponsor, but I'm afraid I wont be able to get anyone to be one, so I'm really hoping having owning a house will be acceptable. (Plus the money I have in my account and what money Petteri will have when he moves)

Edited May 26, 2010 by BirdyGirl85

[pushbrk 12,245]

Hello. First of all, I apologize if this topic doesn't belong here, but I'm not sure where else it would go. Moderators feel free to move this topic if you believe it is more appropriate somewhere else.

So, I guess I have some questions about assets and people's opinions on whether or not I need a co-sponsor. I am the USC. I don't make a lot of money. I do not make enough to meet the 125% of the Poverty Line. But, I own a house that is probably worth $200,000 to $220,000, or more. I'm not sure how to prove to the U.S. Embassy how much the house is worth, but people have told me to get a real estate agent to come and give me an estimate. So at the very least, a fifth of of $200,000 is $40,000. I will have around $16,000 or more in my bank account, so a fifth of that is $3,200. My fiance Petteri is saving a lot of money right now, and plans to to have $20,000 by the time he moves. He is planning on telling the consulate at the interview that he has the much money, but I don't know if they will care or not how much he has, but that will go towards our money together. Now my question is, do you think they will deny him because I don't make much money, even though I have own a house worth that much? I'm kind of worried about this. If I have to, I'll try to get a co-sponsor, but I'm afraid I wont be able to get anyone to be one, so I'm really hoping having owning a house will be acceptable. (Plus the money I have in my account and what money Petteri will have when he moves)

Unless you have no mortgage it is the equity in your home, not its market value that is considered. Even then, the standard is reasonable liquidation within a year without harming the sponsor. Selling your home leaves you homeless, so unless you have two homes, little if any consideration is given to home equity when evaluating the public charge concern.

The good news is that a full time job paying only 9 bucks an hour will meet the 125% for two people.

[Audy_Rob 26]

Hello. First of all, I apologize if this topic doesn't belong here, but I'm not sure where else it would go. Moderators feel free to move this topic if you believe it is more appropriate somewhere else.

So, I guess I have some questions about assets and people's opinions on whether or not I need a co-sponsor. I am the USC. I don't make a lot of money. I do not make enough to meet the 125% of the Poverty Line. But, I own a house that is probably worth $200,000 to $220,000, or more. I'm not sure how to prove to the U.S. Embassy how much the house is worth, but people have told me to get a real estate agent to come and give me an estimate. So at the very least, a fifth of of $200,000 is $40,000. I will have around $16,000 or more in my bank account, so a fifth of that is $3,200. My fiance Petteri is saving a lot of money right now, and plans to to have $20,000 by the time he moves. He is planning on telling the consulate at the interview that he has the much money, but I don't know if they will care or not how much he has, but that will go towards our money together. Now my question is, do you think they will deny him because I don't make much money, even though I have own a house worth that much? I'm kind of worried about this. If I have to, I'll try to get a co-sponsor, but I'm afraid I wont be able to get anyone to be one, so I'm really hoping having owning a house will be acceptable. (Plus the money I have in my account and what money Petteri will have when he moves)

Do you live alone in that house? Or do you have other dependents living in that house?

Do you own the house outright, or do you have mortgage payments?

How much money per year are you short in income (or you can give a percentage or rough idea)? I don't want to know personal information.

You can use assets of the alien beneficiary under the instructions of the I-864, page 9, Section 28 which is the guidelines or instructions everyone uses.

Some people use 1/3 instead of 1/5 but I believe 1/5 is the safe and correct factor to use.

If you own the house outright, no other dependents living there then you should be fine. That is a sizable asset. It is a call made by the CO at the Embassy/Consulate.

Good luck.

[BirdyGirl85 23]

The good news is that a full time job paying only 9 bucks an hour will meet the 125% for two people.

It is? I guess I did my math wrong... I only make $9.20 an hour, but I don't always get full time... Lately for the past few months I have, but I don't always get 40 hours a week. So, maybe I should get a co-sponsor... I don't know if the consulate will consider the money my fiance will have saved up by the time he moves. I don't think they usually do, although my fiance seems to think that will make a difference.

[BirdyGirl85 23]

Do you live alone in that house? Or do you have other dependents living in that house?

I don't live alone in this house, my mother lives with me, but she is not a dependent. She is ill and I help take care of her, but I do not support her financially, she has her own disability income to support herself.

Do you own the house outright, or do you have mortgage payments?

Yes I do own the house outright, I have no mortgage payments.

How much money per year are you short in income (or you can give a percentage or rough idea)? I don't want to know personal information.

Actually I'm not sure how to answer this. I make $9.20 an hour, so if I have 40 hours a week every week I guess I would meet the poverty line for two people. But I don't always get 40 hours a week. Sometimes I get 32. In the beginning of this year, January until March, I was only working about 24 hours a week, but that's because business is slower that time of year. But ever since the middle of March, I have been getting almost 40 hours a week.

You can use assets of the alien beneficiary under the instructions of the I-864, page 9, Section 28 which is the guidelines or instructions everyone uses.

What about the I-134?

Edited May 26, 2010 by BirdyGirl85

[pushbrk 12,245]

If you own the house outright, no other dependents living there then you should be fine. That is a sizable asset. It is a call made by the CO at the Embassy/Consulate.

The call is definitely made by a Consular officer. In my experience Consular officers use the following guideline from the I-864 instructions even when an I-134 is used.

Assets may supplement income if the consular or immigration officer is convinced that the monetary value of the asset could reasonably be made available to support the sponsored immigrant and converted to cash within one year without undue harm to the sponsor or his or her family members. You may not include an automobile unless you show that you ownat least one working automobile that you have not included.

Also, in my experience, Consular officers do not consider liquidation of the family home to be something done "without undue harm...". Is your experience contradictory?

[BirdyGirl85 23]

Hmm, now I am kind of confused what to do... Maybe I should try to find a co-sponsor, just to be on the safe side. I'm just not sure who to ask... A few months ago I showed the I-134 form to my dad and it seemed like he didn't really want to help. I can try again, but I'm not too hopeful... It's just hard for me to think of someone who would be willing to do that... *sigh*

Well, how about this... If my fiance goes to the interview and we have no co-sponsor, just the I-134 from me and proof of my assets, and the consular doesn't think this is enough, what will he or she do? Will we be denied or will he or she give us more time to find a co-sponsor and then let us have a second interview?

[Kris & Liezl 3]

Hello, I apologize for "piggybacking" on someone else's topic, but my question is very similar and I do not want to start a redundant topic.

Okay, so I think I earn over whatever the percentage is in the affidavit of support (just shy of 50K). However, due to my recent home purchase, car wreck & subsequent purchase, and some medical bills in the past three years, my savings has been all but decimated. I have only about 5K left in savings now. And in light of current economic conditions, I am finding it increasingly difficult to add much to my savings. My question is, do they look more at your salary to determine your ability to support, or do they look primarily at your savings? If they look at your savings, what is the minimum amount that needs to be in there? I'm thinking if it's more than I have, I could borrow money to just sit in there until they evaluate me. Then once she's on her way, I would transfer the money back to whoever I borrowed from. Would that work? First though, what is the minimum savings balance they look for??

Thanks.

PS. I have some investments that my parents started for me as a baby which are nearing a value of 40K now. But seeing as though I'm only 29, I'd planned to leave those alone to continue accruing until retirement. Would simply showing statements from those investments suffice?

Edited May 26, 2010 by KJamal99

[pushbrk 12,245]

Hello, I apologize for "piggybacking" on someone else's topic, but my question is very similar and I do not want to start a redundant topic.

Okay, so I think I earn over whatever the percentage is in the affidavit of support (just shy of 50K). However, due to my recent home purchase, car wreck & subsequent purchase, and some medical bills in the past three years, my savings has been all but decimated. I have only about 5K left in savings now. And in light of current economic conditions, I am finding it increasingly difficult to add much to my savings. My question is, do they look more at your salary to determine your ability to support, or do they look primarily at your savings? If they look at your savings, what is the minimum amount that needs to be in there? I'm thinking if it's more than I have, I could borrow money to just sit in there until they evaluate me. Then once she's on her way, I would transfer the money back to whoever I borrowed from. Would that work? First though, what is the minimum savings balance they look for??

Thanks.

PS. I have some investments that my parents started for me as a baby which are nearing a value of 40K now. But seeing as though I'm only 29, I'd planned to leave those alone to continue accruing until retirement. Would simply showing statements from those investments suffice?

If you qualify based on current income, simply leave all asset related questions blank and get on with life.

[pushbrk 12,245]

Hmm, now I am kind of confused what to do... Maybe I should try to find a co-sponsor, just to be on the safe side. I'm just not sure who to ask... A few months ago I showed the I-134 form to my dad and it seemed like he didn't really want to help. I can try again, but I'm not too hopeful... It's just hard for me to think of someone who would be willing to do that... *sigh*

Well, how about this... If my fiance goes to the interview and we have no co-sponsor, just the I-134 from me and proof of my assets, and the consular doesn't think this is enough, what will he or she do? Will we be denied or will he or she give us more time to find a co-sponsor and then let us have a second interview?

Not a second interview, just an opportunity to present a qualified cosponsor's affidavit.

First, actually carefully study the I-134 and its instructions. Just what would you state as your current income where asked on the form? Just how many dollars in liquid assets (cash) would you enter? Is there any reason that number can't be enhanced with a wire transfer from your fiance? Three dollars in liquid assets make up for a dollar of income shortfall. I think you can qualify on your own, just not by using the house.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Hmm, now I am kind of confused what to do... Maybe I should try to find a co-sponsor, just to be on the safe side. I'm just not sure who to ask... A few months ago I showed the I-134 form to my dad and it seemed like he didn't really want to help. I can try again, but I'm not too hopeful... It's just hard for me to think of someone who would be willing to do that... *sigh*

Well, how about this... If my fiance goes to the interview and we have no co-sponsor, just the I-134 from me and proof of my assets, and the consular doesn't think this is enough, what will he or she do? Will we be denied or will he or she give us more time to find a co-sponsor and then let us have a second interview?

The first thing to realize is that the public charge determination for a K visa is entirely up to the discretion of the consular officer. When it comes time to apply for AOS, then you will have clearly defined guidelines you must meet, but there are no sharp lines when the consular officer is making the public charge determination. The general consensus is that they follow the I-864 requirements, but I think what they're really trying to determine is that the applicant WILL have a qualified sponsor when it comes time for AOS. If you're even marginally close to the minimum requirements then you should probably have a co-sponsor ready.

They may consider your mother in determining your household size, even if you don't make any direct monetary contributions to her. If you did not care of her, would she need a caretaker? If you did not provide her with a home, would she need to rent an apartment? These may be considered tangible contributions to her support, even if you don't pay for them out of your own pocket.

I'm in the same boat. My mother lives with me, though she isn't sick. She gets enough in retirement and Social Security to cover her expenses, but she doesn't pay me rent or a share in the other household expenses, and she couldn't afford to pay for these things herself if she had to live on her own. There's no doubt that she depends on me, so I included her in my household size. I also included my adult daughter for the same reason. She works and supports herself, but she's getting free housing and related benefits from me.

It's up to the consular officer whether to accept your home to offset any shortage in income. For the value, you can either provide the latest property tax assessment, or hire a private licensed appraiser. Unless a real estate agent is also a licensed appraiser, then their opinion of your home's value isn't worth much. Free online "comparables" services are wildly inaccurate because they compare your home to other homes which are similar based on square footage, number of rooms, etc., and which are within a specific radius of your home and have sold recently. They don't compensate for the fact that some of those homes may be in developments with dramatically higher or lower property values, or that some of those homes may have been "distressed".

The ratio for assets is 3:1 when you're sponsoring a spouse or minor child (your fiance usually counts as your spouse for this). It's 5:1 for any other relative. The value of your qualifying assets should only need to be 3 times any shortage in income.

Some consulates will allow an applicant to self-sponsor. Self-sponsorship means the applicant would have enough in assets, or income that will continue after he/she immigrates, to qualify to sponsor themselves. Although the I-864 will allow an immigrant to combine assets with their sponsor, under certain limited conditions, I've never heard of a consulate permitting this with the I-134. Frankly, the form itself simply doesn't provide a way to do this, and since the I-134 is not the final binding affidavit of support, there would be no guarantee that the immigrant would contribute their assets after they arrived and applied for AOS. Consulates usually want to see one sponsor (or co-sponsor) who is well qualified, and is likely to remain well qualified when it comes time for AOS. If you aren't confident you'll be able to qualify, then get a co-sponsor who can.

If the consulate denies the visa based on the public charge requirement then they'll usually issue a 221(g) denial notice. Section 221(g) simply means they don't have the necessary documents to issue the visa. They'll usually give you a chance to find a co-sponsor. If you can't provide a qualifying co-sponsor within a reasonable amount of time then they'll issue a 212(a)(4) denial notice, and send the petition back to USCIS.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Not a second interview, just an opportunity to present a qualified cosponsor's affidavit.

First, actually carefully study the I-134 and its instructions. Just what would you state as your current income where asked on the form? Just how many dollars in liquid assets (cash) would you enter? Is there any reason that number can't be enhanced with a wire transfer from your fiance? Three dollars in liquid assets make up for a dollar of income shortfall. I think you can qualify on your own, just not by using the house.

I'm just curious if this is based on experience, or just opinion? The I-864 does specifically allow for the net worth of a home to be declared as an asset. Unlike a car, you don't have to sell a home (and become homeless) in order to cash out it's equity. Granted that these aren't normal times, and an equity line of credit is not exactly simple to get, but the I-864 does allow it.

Just wondering...

[pushbrk 12,245]

I'm just curious if this is based on experience, or just opinion? The I-864 does specifically allow for the net worth of a home to be declared as an asset. Unlike a car, you don't have to sell a home (and become homeless) in order to cash out it's equity. Granted that these aren't normal times, and an equity line of credit is not exactly simple to get, but the I-864 does allow it.

Just wondering...

I'm not saying the I-864 doesn't allow declaring home equity. It does but ANY declared asset is viewed through the reasonably liquidated in a year without harm, standard. What they say about a car is just an example. Even when using the I-864, how to value assets as being available to support the immigrant is a judgment call.

Yes, I said "in my experience" for a valid reason. Perhaps not applicable in this case but again, in my experience, an even higher standard tends to be applied to a joint sponsor's family home.

If the priority is to qualify to support the immigrant (for the sake of discussion) the OP can simply liquidate the house and show cash assets. Rhetorical question is, "Why hasn't he done that already?" Now answer the question for yourself, as each person's answer is likely a bit different. Now answer it from the point of view of a Consular Officer.

Where a big equity in a family home IS helpful is when income is marginal. A Conoff can certainly take into account that with a paid for home or a small mortgage, more of the income is actually available for support. This comes into play often with older petitioners who are retired on fixed incomes. Thankfully, they don't count it against people who have mortgages they can't afford.

Edited May 27, 2010 by pushbrk

[Nibake 4]

Since I don't know of a better place to put this question,

Does it make any difference what the relation to the cosponsor is? I've considered my father, my brother, or even an American who I barely know but is interested in sponsoring my fiancee having known her since my fiancée's childhood.

[Nibake 4]

I'm also confused now, I thought the the I-134 is what I need for the K1 Visa interview, but there is mention of the I-864. Which do I need first?