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Obama 2012

Navy Making The Mistake Of Allowing Women To Serve On Subs

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KINGS BAY NAVAL SUBMARINE BASE, Ga. — The first U.S. women allowed to serve aboard submarines will be reporting for duty by 2012, the Navy said Thursday as the military ordered an end to one of its few remaining gender barriers.

The cramped quarters and scant privacy aboard submarines, combined with long tours of up to 90 days at sea, kept them off-limits to female sailors for 16 years after the Navy began allowing women to serve on all its surface ships in 1994.

There were some protests, particularly from wives of sub sailors, after the military began formulating a plan last fall. But it received no objections from Congress after Defense Secretary Robert Gates notified lawmakers in mid-February that the Navy intended to lift the ban. The deadline for Congress to intervene passed at midnight Wednesday.

Rear Adm. Barry Bruner, who led the Navy's task force on integrating women onto submarines, brushed aside questions from reporters about the potential for sexual misconduct or unexpected pregnancies among a coed crew.

"We're going to look back on this four or five years from now, shrug our shoulders and say, 'What was everybody worrying about?'" said Bruner, the top sub commander at Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base in coastal Georgia, where the announcement was made.

The first group of women will consist entirely of officers assigned to guided-missile attack submarines and ballistic-missile submarines, which have the most living space in the Navy's fleet. They'll be assigned to two subs based at Kings Bay on the East Coast, and two others at the West Coast naval hub of Bangor, Wash.

Limiting women to officer slots lets the Navy, for a time at least, sidestep the more vexing and cost-prohibitive problem of modifying subs to have separate bunks and bathrooms for enlisted men and women. Enlisted sailors make up about 90 percent of a sub's 160-sailor crew. No timeline was given for integrating enlisted women onto subs.

Bruner said 24 women will be able to begin training for submarine officers, which takes at least 15 months, this summer. They'll be divided up so that three women are assigned to each sub's two rotating crews.

That grouping will let all three women aboard a sub share a single stateroom for sleeping. The single bathroom shared by a sub's 15 officers will be equipped with a sign to show if it's occupied by men or women.

Otherwise, most changes will likely be behavioral shifts by male sailors who aren't used to having women aboard, said Lt. Cmdr. Daniel Lombardo, executive officer of the submarine USS Alaska.

"The guys are probably used to walking to the restroom in their boxer shorts and stuff," Lombardo said. "But all in all, I think the adjustments for the crew are going to be minor."

One of the most difficult groups to win over on the concept of coed subs has been women themselves — at least those who are married to submarine sailors.

On blogs and online networking sites, wives of submariners have warned that close contact between the sexes at sea could lead to temptation and allegations of sexual harassment.

"There's a lot of Navy wives worried about their husbands cheating," said Petty Officer 1st Class Glenn Gray, a missile technician on the Alaska, who said his wife isn't crazy about the idea. "I've told her not to worry, because I'm married to her."

The Navy declined several requests by The Associated Press to interview female sailors and cadets at U.S. bases about the policy change.

Women are currently allowed to serve on subs in a few countries, including Australia, Canada, Norway, Spain and Sweden.

About 52,446 women serve on active duty in the U.S. Navy, or about 15 percent of total personnel. Navy officials said women also make up about half the pool of potential recruits with educational degrees that qualify them for training as submarine officers.

"We literally could not run the Navy without women today," Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said in a statement.

Sailors interviewed aboard the Alaska at Kings Bay on Thursday said they're not opposed to the change.

But Petty Officer 2nd Class Chris Merceri predicted there will be "a little more anxiety" when female officers come aboard for the first time.

"Everybody's going to be really up on their P's and Q's, very formal and careful of what they do," Merceri said. "After that, everyone will be relaxed and comfortable. It'll be another day at work."


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03/15/2011 - Interview in Montreal! - Approved!!!

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Sweet. The boys will have some split-tail at sea.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006


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I feel a seamen joke coming on..... :dance:

I-129F Mailed 13DEC09
I-129F Received 16DEC09
NOA1 Dated 16DEC09
NOA2 Dated 18MAR10 Your I-129f was approved in 92 days from your NOA1 date.
Date Package Received By NVC : 27MAR10
Your interview took 153 days from your I-129F NOA1 date
Arrival in USA 06Jun10
Married 20AUG10
AOS File 19APR11

Son born 26NOV12

removal of conditions filed 11JUN13

Biometrics appt 09JUL13

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This is great News!!

Go Navy ! Beat Army !!

On a different note - #######? Just Officers? No Ratings? (Enlisted)

Edited by Darnell

Sometimes my language usage seems confusing - please feel free to 'read it twice', just in case !
Ya know, you can find the answer to your question with the advanced search tool, when using a PC? Ditch the handphone, come back later on a PC, and try again.

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Congratulations on your approval ! We All Applaud your accomplishment with Most Wonderful Kissies !


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This is great News!!

Go Navy ! Beat Army !!

On a different note - #######? Just Officers? No Ratings? (Enlisted)

As Jack Nicholson said, "You're the luckiest man in the world. There is nothing on this Earth sexier - believe me gentlemen - than a woman you have to salute in the morning."


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This is great News!!

Go Navy ! Beat Army !!

On a different note - #######? Just Officers? No Ratings? (Enlisted)

Would be more difficult for them to put enlisted women on a sub - since enlisted sleep in basically open berths, whereas the officers have "staterooms".

Now - this would give the whole idea of "hot bunking" a different bent...

I would imagine they would have to make separate bunk areas for enlisted first.

I left the Navy before women started coming in force on warships, when they did a few test runs on the USS Coral Sea, it was embarrassing to see the guys lust after the women, they acted like they never saw them before...

It did make it harder to walk to the head in your underwear though... (on a carrier - sometimes you had to forage for an empty stall to shower in)

My Advice is usually based on "Worst Case Scenario" and what is written in the rules/laws/instructions. That is the way I roll... -Protect your Status - file before your I-94 expires.

WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. Read the Adjudicator's Field Manual from USCIS

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I went through a state OCS program to get my commission. There were men and women sleeping in close proximity to each other on the open armory floor when we met for one weekend a month, Friday though Sunday, for 14 months, and for two 15 day training sessions at Camp San Luis Obispo, though in two person huts (the women got curtains, the men didn't). Women got use of the showers first, and then it was the men's turn. You probably saw more flesh exposed on the beach. Maybe it was because we were part-time soldiers. Whatever. It never became an issue. There were AR and NG candidates going through the program.

Now, those active component Navy folks: Maybe if they trained with more split-tails, then maybe, just maybe, they might mature a little quicker as well.

Edited by ##########

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