finicial proof when you own the business

[leith@Ievgeniia 8]

ok i know how to do the forms and such ...but when you own your businesses hand have tax returns that the pages litterly go to 50 plus pages long. how can u make sure the burricrat knows what he or she is reading?

would a letter from your cpa stating your new worth and list of assets with aproximatly value?

trying to get this together now.

thanks

[Anh map 2,098]

If you qualify based on income then a listing of assets is not needed. The income number that will be evaluated is line 22 on your 1040.

If you need to use assets then there are specific guidelines for proving the net value. Those gidelines are actually found in the instructions for the I-864 Affidavit of Support. The I-134 that you will be submitting is a bit thin on instructions. Also you can refer to this FAQ for the I-864 from the State Dept. website >> http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3183.html

The bureaucrats/CO's are well aware of what is needed and are able to evaluate your tax filings.

[pushbrk 12,111]

ok i know how to do the forms and such ...but when you own your businesses hand have tax returns that the pages litterly go to 50 plus pages long. how can u make sure the burricrat knows what he or she is reading?

would a letter from your cpa stating your new worth and list of assets with aproximatly value?

trying to get this together now.

thanks

A CPA's letter can be helpful if you need to use assets instead of income. Otherwise, the Consular officer only needs to see line 22 on the first page of the 1040 and know enough to see that the return is complete. Lot's of self-employed people here. Not our first rodeo.

[Martyshk 137]

A CPA's letter can be helpful if you need to use assets instead of income. Otherwise, the Consular officer only needs to see line 22 on the first page of the 1040 and know enough to see that the return is complete. Lot's of self-employed people here. Not our first rodeo.

Push, sorry if this is a stupid question:

But wouldn't a tax transcript present even a huge tax-return form (50 whatever pages) in a nice concise way?

Would that work?

Just curious

Of course provided a person qualified on income and not assets, I mean. That info should be in the transcript I thought. And they are nice and neat.

[Darnell 8,478]

ya, transcripts are 'less pages' than the actual 'form collection'

on a different note, though -

lets say you have 90 bucks listed on line 22 of form 1040, but

you have 1.2 mil in business income.

an audited Income/Asset Statement from a CPA, with the CPAs certification on it, usually helps to clear the fog, to ANYONE that reads it.

(Sure, that's an extremem example, but hopefully, ya get the idea, yes? )

Expect to spend about 2 hours of billable time, per Tax year, to prepare that statement with a CPA. If it's the same CPA that handles yer books though - he/she might already have it available in yer file back at the CPAs office.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

ya, transcripts are 'less pages' than the actual 'form collection'

on a different note, though -

lets say you have 90 bucks listed on line 22 of form 1040, but

you have 1.2 mil in business income.

an audited Income/Asset Statement from a CPA, with the CPAs certification on it, usually helps to clear the fog, to ANYONE that reads it.

(Sure, that's an extremem example, but hopefully, ya get the idea, yes? )

Expect to spend about 2 hours of billable time, per Tax year, to prepare that statement with a CPA. If it's the same CPA that handles yer books though - he/she might already have it available in yer file back at the CPAs office.

This subject has come up before, and makes for some lively debate. Gary may be along with his "have yer cake and eat it too" lecture!

In a nutshell though, if your tax return makes it look like there's not much left in your pocket after your legitimate business expenses have been deducted from your revenues, then the consulate is free to conclude that you don't make enough money. If you're hiring that CPA to prove you've got sufficient assets to make up the shortage, then that should work. On the other hand, if your intention is to show you're pocketing a lot more cash than your tax return would seem to show, then it's entirely up to the consulate whether they want to buy that story, or just stick to the total income number on the 1040.

I know that everyone's situation is different. Some self-employed people can legally deduct a lot more than they actually spend, which makes line 22 on the 1040 look artificially low. Some people like me have the opposite problem, and spend a lot more than they can legally deduct. One of my biggest problems is that the city I live in sets limits on a home based business specifically to prevent you from taking some legitimate deductions, like the home office deduction, or hiring employees or contractors. They want to make sure that nobody with a home based business can get the home office deduction because the city has a glut of empty commercial rental property, and they want to encourage everyone to lease a real office. I actually do qualify to take the home office deduction, but if I actually take the deduction then I risk losing my city business license. C'est la vie!

The total income from my business alone would be enough to qualify me as a sponsor, but only without those deductions the city prevents me from taking. If I took those deductions, and if my business income were my only income, then I wouldn't qualify. It didn't matter in my case, since my business is part time, and my day job pays a comfortable salary. But, I could easily see where it could be a problem for many self employed people.

Your example isn't really extreme at all. I could easily see how someone could have over $1 million in revenues, and make a very comfortable living, and still have no taxable income after all of their legitimate deductions.

[pushbrk 12,111]

Push, sorry if this is a stupid question:

But wouldn't a tax transcript present even a huge tax-return form (50 whatever pages) in a nice concise way?

Would that work?

Just curious

Of course provided a person qualified on income and not assets, I mean. That info should be in the transcript I thought. And they are nice and neat.

Sure, a tax transcript is preferred unless it's a joint return. Conoffs know which line on the transcript comes from line 22 on the 1040. I mention line 22 so it becomes clear to the self-employed individual that it's all they really care about. They don't need or want to understand or consider anything else.

As for the continuing discussion, one of the killer issues for the self-employed can be depreciation. It doesn't come out of your spendable cash or deplete your assets but it can kill line 22. Good for taxes but can be very bad for sponsorship qualification. That's just another part of the self-employed double edged sword.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Sure, a tax transcript is preferred unless it's a joint return. Conoffs know which line on the transcript comes from line 22 on the 1040. I mention line 22 so it becomes clear to the self-employed individual that it's all they really care about. They don't need or want to understand or consider anything else.

As for the continuing discussion, one of the killer issues for the self-employed can be depreciation. It doesn't come out of your spendable cash or deplete your assets but it can kill line 22. Good for taxes but can be very bad for sponsorship qualification. That's just another part of the self-employed double edged sword.

From my reading of the 864/A, it doesn't state you need something different for a joint return.

The W-2's shown on the transcripts would show your (individual) income - and if it's enough to meet the level needed - it should be good to go? My friend co-sponsored and he used his joint transcripts, and it was accepted.

Is there something written that says different with joint/single info for affadivits? I want to make sure I have the correct info.

[leith@Ievgeniia 8]

i am in kinda that boat. with more than 3 businesses i do make over the poverity line but harge losses on 1 business makes me look like i live on the street hahah

i will use my cpa and make a assets statement and show more what is going on

thanks for the insite

besides i do have a decent take home pay ... enough for the coverage. pay raise is good for something like this

[pushbrk 12,111]

From my reading of the 864/A, it doesn't state you need something different for a joint return.

The W-2's shown on the transcripts would show your (individual) income - and if it's enough to meet the level needed - it should be good to go? My friend co-sponsored and he used his joint transcripts, and it was accepted.

Is there something written that says different with joint/single info for affadivits? I want to make sure I have the correct info.

There are no W2's on a transcript. When it's a joint return, a transcript doesn't indicate who had how much income. Since an individual is qualifying as sponsor based on their own personal income, a transcript from a joint return will not verify their income like a complete tax return will. You will not find these details addressed on I-134 or I-864 instructions but as a practical matter, the Conoff is going to look at the stated income and try to match it to total income on the transcript. If it doesn't match, there's a discrepancy. You don't want discrepancies because they can delay visa issue. You avoid the discrepancy by providing the complete tax return.

This doesn't only impact the self-employed but also the recently divorced or joint sponsors where the most recent tax return is jointly filed.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

There are no W2's on a transcript. When it's a joint return, a transcript doesn't indicate who had how much income. Since an individual is qualifying as sponsor based on their own personal income, a transcript from a joint return will not verify their income like a complete tax return will. You will not find these details addressed on I-134 or I-864 instructions but as a practical matter, the Conoff is going to look at the stated income and try to match it to total income on the transcript. If it doesn't match, there's a discrepancy. You don't want discrepancies because they can delay visa issue. You avoid the discrepancy by providing the complete tax return.

This doesn't only impact the self-employed but also the recently divorced or joint sponsors where the most recent tax return is jointly filed.

Now I am confused - my transcripts have the W-2 info on it - and it clearly breaks down the information.

(W-2/1099/1098) everything.

I received these in 2009 - did they change them?

[pushbrk 12,111]

Now I am confused - my transcripts have the W-2 info on it - and it clearly breaks down the information.

(W-2/1099/1098) everything.

I received these in 2009 - did they change them?

Perhaps. My latest married filing jointly tax return transcript with two incomes was 2007. The problem I'm describing would be for married filing jointly where both parties had income. Can you distinguish which income is yours and which is your spouse's?

Mine shows several categories of income but does not indicate which party produced any line item of income or which portion of any line item came from which party.

Put yourself in the shoes of the Conoff looking at your transcript trying to find your individual income as you act as joint sponsor. If your spouse produces no income, your transcript is not an adequate example.

Edited April 11, 2010 by pushbrk

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Perhaps. My latest married filing jointly tax return transcript with two incomes was 2007. The problem I'm describing would be for married filing jointly where both parties had income. Can you distinguish which income is yours and which is your spouse's?

Mine shows several categories of income but does not indicate which party produced any line item of income or which portion of any line item came from which party.

Put yourself in the shoes of the Conoff looking at your transcript trying to find your individual income as you act as joint sponsor. If your spouse produces no income, your transcript is not an adequate example.

Yes - the transcripts break out the W-2 info (name of recipient/company/original submission, etc..) (well - mine do)

I concur, no income would be a bad thing, but if one spouse makes enough, and can prove it with tax info, then it should satisfy the requirement. (regardless if the other spouse made less/more) IMO.

I do remember some post here where the CO wanted an 864A from the other spouse, stating they will not support the immigrant - but there is nothing in the regs stating this. (will see if I can locate this post - was last summer or so)

Cheers!

[pushbrk 12,111]

Yes - the transcripts break out the W-2 info (name of recipient/company/original submission, etc..) (well - mine do)

I concur, no income would be a bad thing, but if one spouse makes enough, and can prove it with tax info, then it should satisfy the requirement. (regardless if the other spouse made less/more) IMO.

I do remember some post here where the CO wanted an 864A from the other spouse, stating they will not support the immigrant - but there is nothing in the regs stating this. (will see if I can locate this post - was last summer or so)

Cheers!

Then perhaps they've changed the format of the tax return transcript since 2007. Only the signing sponsor needs to have qualifying income. As for other requests, as you know, Conoffs have wide discretion in making the public charge determination. Unless you see a reg. saying they can't do something, it doesn't matter whether there's a reg that specifically says they can or must.

Edited April 12, 2010 by pushbrk

[Bobby+Umit 161]

To add on to this.

I just called the IRS on a different matter, and asked the agent about these transcripts.

She told me there are two types you can request:

1. Return Transcript (that only shows what is on the actual return, no W-2/1099/etc info)

or the

2. Wage and Income transcripts (shows everything in minute detail).

So it appears Pushbrk received number 1 and I received number 2.

Always ask for the Wage and Income transcript when getting them I guess!