an immigration question on OT *gasp*

[maya62 7]

I have my kevlar suit on, so if I have committed a cardinal sin on VJ by posting an actual immigration question in OT, flame away... Or, if you have the power, kindly move my topic to wherever it belongs. I don't know where it belongs. Thanks!

I just sent in an I-90 for our 14 year old son, to replace the 10 year greencard he got last year, because I thought that's what we were supposed to do. USCIS recieved the package 32 days after he turned 14, and mailed the whole thing back with an I-797 rejection notice that is as clear as mud. I can't tell if it is rejected because they recieved it 2 days late (and maybe now we have to pay the app fee in addition to the biometrics fee) or because his greencard does not expire until after he turns 16. Both are mentioned in the letter. Actually the current greencard won't expire until 2019.

I called the mis-information line twice after recieving the rejection. Both times the call was "escalated" to the next level of whatever (supposedly a more knowledgable person... ha). The first time, the answer did not clarify anything, but I was told that we should not do anything now, but send in an I-90 when he turns 16, which I think is BS. The second time, we again did not achieve clarity, but I was told I should hurry up and apply for my husband's citizenship (which we are almost ready to send out anyhow) and this problem will go away, which I fear is also BS.

What to do? I am thinking of making an infopass appt with our local office to sort this out, as well as sending in the N-400 for my husband asap. I can just see us, though, sitting in the citizenship interview, trying to explain what happened with our son's I-90 if we don't do anything now.

So I have two questions: Is there anyone out there with experience in this particular situation who can explain this to me? And, can this affect my husband's N-400?

Thanks for whatever light you can shed on this confusing situation!

Maya

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I don't know anything about immigratoin anymore, but I hope the powers that be move your post to the correct forum!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Hi Maya,

I have a stepson who received his 10 year greencard last Fall. From what I've understood, his mother can apply to become a USC in about a year, and that because he is a minor and was part of her immigration here, his application of citizenship would go through his mother....and I'm guessing the reason is - he is legally her child, even though I am legally his stepfather.

I'm not sure about the details of your husband's and son's immigration, but if he is in fact your stepson, then it would make sense why they rejected your I-90. If he is your biological son, he'd automatically be a USC.

Hopefully someone else here though can give you a more definitive answer than that. Best of luck.

[Otto 83]

Speaking of clear as mud; what exactly did the I-797/rejection notice say?

[maya62 7]

Speaking of clear as mud; what exactly did the I-797/rejection notice say?

Here's what it said:

"This is in reference to the I-90, Application to Replace Permanent Resident Card, you submitted. Your I-90 fees, and any supporting documentation is being returned to you for the following reason(s):

The applicant marked "g" in Part 2, Question 2, as the reason for filing the Form I-90. This reason requires the applicant to have reached their 14th birthday since their permanent resident card had been issued and the current card will expire before their 16th birthday. Furthermore, applicants must file the Form I-90, within 30 days of reaching their 14th birthday. Our records show the applicant either had not filed within 30 days of reaching his/her 14th birthday, or the current card expired after the applicant's 16th birthday. You can resubmit the application with the appropriate fee as described on the USCIS internet page at www.uscis.gov.

Please be sure to complete the application fully, submit the appropriate fees, and include all required supporting documentation."

So both things they mention after "Our records show..." are true, but depending on which one they are basing the rejection on, our path is different. If the rejection is because we didn't need to file at all because his greencard does not expire before he turns 16, then we don't refile. But if the rejection is because they got the I-90 on day 32 (not within 30 days), then maybe we need to file with the full fee ($290 plus $80 biometrics), instead of just the biometrics fee.

I'm baffled, and talking to them on the phone just made it worse.

Thanks to those who responded thus far, and to anyone who can shed further light...

Maya

[Jenn! 918]

The instructions seem clear that the $290 fee is waived if the existing card expires after the 16th birthday, which was true in your case. Their response seems contrary to this. Honestly, I think it is a typo in their response and it should read:

"Our records show the applicant either had not filed within 30 days of reaching his/her 14th birthday, or the current card expired after before the applicant's 16th birthday."

Therefore the reason it was rejected is that you didn't file within 30 days. So you'll have to pay the full fee.

That's just my reading of the situation, sorry I can't be of more help!

[Nik+Heather 121]

I just sent in an I-90 for our 14 year old son,

his greencard does not expire until after he turns 16. The current greencard won't expire until 2019.

Here's what it said:

This reason requires the applicant to have reached their 14th birthday since their permanent resident card had been issued (Check)

and

the current card will expire before their 16th birthday. (Not true according to pink statement from first post.)

Our records show the applicant either had not filed within 30 days of reaching his/her 14th birthday, or the current card expired after the applicant's 16th birthday.

So, I'm not an expert, just putting together the things you have said in this thread. I color coded them so maybe that helps match them up. It seems that the requirement is an AND requirement - he has to be both 14 AND have a GC which will expire before he turns 16. He doesn't meet the second part, so agree with first call which says do nothing.

[maya62 7]

Thanks guys, for your responses. I hope Nik+Heather are right rather than Jenn! (no offense). It does seem silly to have to replace a 10 year greencard that is less than a year old, but nobody ever promised us that any of this would make sense... and geez - is it just me or does that letter contain some seriously sucky grammar???

I think we won't have a definitive answer unless we go talk to USCIS. I hate to do it as it basically takes half a day minimum just to go up to the local office and get an answer to the question, but I don't feel like we have a choice, and I don't want to mess up my husband's N-400 with some kind of a black mark about this fiasco. I would rather have them treat me like an idiot because I can't figure out their letter, than make a mistake at this juncture. So we have an infopass appt for Monday. I'll post the results afterwards in case anyone else runs into this situation.

Thanks again for the responses...

Maya

Looking ont the bright side, it will be an excuse to have lunch at Chipotle. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Chipotle...

[Otto 83]

I agree - it is clear as mud (you did what you were supposed to, from what I can tell).

I'd schedule an infopass appointment before resubmitting anything. I hope you'll post a result here when you're done.

[Darnell 8,478]

you were applying for replacement card for the son? that's what an I-90 is for.

If you were told to use I-90 form for ANY OTHER REASON -

set up infopass - go loaded for bear, and inquire.

Good Luck !

[maya62 7]

Update:

We had our infopass appointment this am. At our local office, you go through security, then get in line at a front desk/counter, where you are screened for the purpose of your visit and directed from there. We got to the screener and she asked us our purpose (kind of like the guy guarding the bridge in Monty Python's Holy Grail). She read our confusing letter with a furrowed brow and declared that our stuff was sent back because it was 2 days late. I tried to debate that angle and she said, for the first of several times, "AGAIN, blah blah blah...." and repeated what she had just told me as if I were about as intelligent as a box of rocks. And I said "So because it is 2 days late, we have to pay an extra $290?" and she said "Well, you could try resubmitting it with a cover letter... it is up to that office." So I asked her about the part in the letter about expiring or not before he turns 16... "AGAIN, blah blah blah". So then I told her what I was told in both of the 800 number calls and finally she admitted that a lot of people don't even bother with the new I-90 at 14! She said something about his school maybe having an issue with it. HA!!! His school has never even asked if he's legal, nevermind asking to see his greencard, never mind being anywhere near informed enough to know that, even though his greencard says it's good until he's 23, he actually should have a new one issued at 14. HA HA HA. And then she looked at the photo on the greencard and looked at him and said "well, it still looks pretty much like him...". (the card was just issued last May). And I tried to lighten things up a little saying "yeah, if he would just cut his hair!" And she actually cracked a smile for a second. But the bottom line is, when I told her that the second guy at the 800 number told us to forget about this and just apply for citizenship for my husband and this will all go away, she pretty much acquiesced and acted like that was probably the best thing to do. So we never made it past the front desk. But I feel a lot better about just going ahead with the N-400 full steam ahead. And we had a lovely lunch at Chipotle.

Citizenship, here we come!

Hope this helps someone... I can't recommend skipping over the I-90 at 14 nonsense, and it would certainly be different to me if his greencard were issued, say, 5 years ago rather than less than a year ago. Our path aims directly at citizenship anyhow, so it didn't require a major change of plans. So IOW, your mileage may vary! I am not advocating blowing off any requirements of the USCIS.

Maya

[Otto 83]

Thanks for the update - good thing that's cleared up now.. good grief..

I'm curious though - how did you know you were supposed to renew his card at 14? (I could not find it anywhere - except on the I-90, the other day.)

[maya62 7]

Thanks for the update - good thing that's cleared up now.. good grief..

I'm curious though - how did you know you were supposed to renew his card at 14? (I could not find it anywhere - except on the I-90, the other day.)

It was either by word of mouth, or I may have read it somewhere here. I can't remember (I have really bad CRS disease, which I understand is a side-effect of motherhood, especially for women over 40).

At any rate, therein lies our salvation, imho. As far as I can tell, USCIS is doing essentially NOTHING to reach this group. At major junctures, you usually hear from someone about what you are supposed to do next. Either it is in the instructions and/or a CO or IO tells you and/or there's a clear expiration date. Our son's greencard says it expires in 2019. Are they going to try to deport him because we didn't update a 10 year card when it was less than a year old? I think not.

I have never heard or read of anyone having difficulty because they did not apply for an I-90 for their 14 year old, and I have looked (online). I read one story of an American/Indian couple who actually left the country with a 14 or 15 year old who had an "old" but valid greencard and were worried about getting back in (they found out about the I-90 thing just before they were about to depart the US and were advised by an attorney to go anyway and deal with it on re-entry if necessary). On their return, the IO in customs made a joke about something else, but didn't say anything about the greencard.

Because of arbitrary (or no) enforcement, the existence of a USCIS-issued document (the I-551) stating otherwise, and the statements of now two USCIS representatives that basically either recommend or imply tacit approval of just proceeding with the N-400, I think we're OK until my husband's N-400 is approved. I might feel differently if we were traveling out of the US in the next few months, but we're not. I'm hoping we'll have two new US passports in hand when we head back to paradise in December (if possible... the political situtation is unstable due to the recent death of the prime minister who was apparently the only person who could hold things together over there).

Thanks for your interest. Onward through the fog!!

Maya

[maya62 7]

Another update:

We just returned from 2 weeks visiting family in Nepal and came through Customs just fine with our son's original greencard, which we did not update when he turned 14 (see above thread). The CPB agent didn't say a word about it. Just the usual "go talk to Ag about your water buffalo butter.... and welcome home" lol

Since CPB is under DHS, and we have an N-400 pending with USCIS, and that application for an updated card for our son was returned by USCIS, I wondered if they would have that info or ask about either one, but.... nada. I wonder how much of USCIS's stuff they share with DHS (and vice versa). As a (state) govt employee myself, I know agencies sometimes do not communicate well with one another (to put it gently).

Just thought I'd post this since I'll bet others will have questions about international travel with a teenager for whom they did not get an updated greencard when their son/daughter turned 14...

maya

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The expiration of a document confirming a status does not terminate the status itself.

In English: just like a US citizen is still a US citizen if his passport is expired, a LPR is still a LPR if his Green Card is expired. Nobody gets deported for nothin' here. Since it's so God-dam expensive to renew a Green Card these days, many LPRs choose not to renew it until they really need it. Since even the requirements of an I-9 (job) can be met with a valid driver's license and an unrestricted SS card, this usually means international travel, exclusively.

Since your son will become a US citizen the moment you become one and his Green Card is still valid, you even can save the $600 for the N-600 by just applying for a US passport for him at the same time you apply.

Free advice for free money. Doesn't get better than this, does it?