The cat rant and rave

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

OK, this is a serious (not a snarky) question. Why would you care if American women "improved" or realized the "errors of their ways"? Who are you actually trying to help? American men of the future? American women as a gender-whole? Americans as a societal whole? Or yourself (by virtue of vindication or any other emotional attachment to the situation)?

I absolutely could not care less if American women improve or not. I married a Ukrainian, I intend that for life, I am off the market. Just in case you thought I cared...no I don't. I try, mostly, to help American men who are in the process of getting a foreign bride by trying to answer as many questions in the forums here as I can. Yes, I answer questions from American women also because I am a caring and warm kinda guy. Just a lovable fuzzball.

But for the same reason I would tell a business I will never use again WHY I will never use them again. American women can do what they want with the information, other than background noise they have no effect on me.

Right, but what I was wondering was why someone would care to bother with someone else whom they had deemed as such. To me, it seems like a waste of time from a personal point of view (he is happily married and so having the women change would seem like a non-benefit).

You are absolutely right. A non-benefit for me and I don't care.

[christeen 966]

So what the he11s going on wit da cat???

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

So what the he11s going on wit da cat???

I changed the ticket via Expedia so that the Kyiv - Paris flight has a Ukrainian International Airlines flight number. The cat's good to go now.

[slim 1,533]

Who ARE these women Y'all are marrying? I never have these probems. what gives? Are Ukrainians that much better?

It's possible. I've never had the pleasure of Ukr.... wait a minute..... your wife is what, 40?

Her age means she's got her sh!t together already. You have to remember, we're still dealing with little f'king crybabies who aren't grown up all the way yet. Women don't get their sh!t together til they're about 35. And it's not that they need to get their sh!t together, it's just that they've finally come to terms with their "stock" and it's value, and what that means to them.

We're still dealing with the under 30 crowd that's trying to "assert their value." My wife will be 30 later this month. Only five more years.....

The lesson here for American men is that Russian women (at least those old enough to remember how dad treated mom during the old days) expect and respect a strong man who takes on the role as the "boss." This may not be immediately apparent as she feels her way along with her American man, but somewhere down the road it could well show up. She may "test" her man to see what he's made of. So, I judge it is a mistake to start off a relationship with Russian women by trying to be overly complacent or too accommodating. Or give in to their sometimes goofy demands because they look so "hot." We don't beat our wives but we can be strong and assertive when needed and at some level the women will feel comfort and support from this.

I think this is what Slim has always tried to teach new husbands or financees on the forum.

Somebody gets it!

I know I sound like an @$$hole to all the trolling, independent, liberated and modern "visitors" we get here (julianna excluded, of course!) but it is a fact. If you allow your wife to set the tone for the rest of your marriage with her childish, immature, selfish, bullshit shenanigans, she will eventually run you into the ground. The last thing you want to be with your FSU wife is the b!tch. And I don't mean showing your feminine side, I mean washing another man's drawers "pressed or starched?" b!tch.

The more concessions you make, the more you wobble on your opinion, the more you allow her to make up your mind for you... the more she's going to do it and eventually, you're going to be her b!tch. And when you are, she'll have absolutely zero respect left for you and instead of being (secretly) happy with her @$$hole husband, she'll be forced to look elsewhere for happiness.

She does not want to know how the furnace works, what it uses for fuel or how much it costs, she wants to be warm and her man needs to make sure she can be when she wants to. As long as that happens, there is peace on earth. Turn on the swtich and the light comes on. Turn the key and the car starts. The trash is never full, the lawn is always cut.

Reasonable expectations, sure. But, once again, Alla is old enough to realize that even though she doesn't need to care what the heat costs - it still costs something. Dare I say she's reasonable with her expectations? Can she be happy that there is heat, not that there's heat in this sh!tty little apartment?

... Since she is giving up her family and friends to come over here,

This is the biggest bunch of balogna and I hear it constantly on VJ. "They're leaving EVERYTHING behind...." BULL freaking SH!T. If their life was so great over there, you'd be joining them, not the other way around.

Plus, if you're making concessions for things they're "leaving" then you're going to be "paying them back" for a long, long time - and you're never going to fully compensate them.

A strong man OK, fine, however dont get a Custer stance and to hell with logic and your partners possibly more intuitive input and forge ahead... If you have a "my way or the highway" stance, eventually the highway will win.

The minute you lift your foot up off the ground is the minute the highway will win. When you put your foot down and proclaim "this is how it will be and if you don't like it, there's the door" they're free to make their own choice. Maybe the highway isn't all that bad. But, then again, maybe what I have here isn't all that bad either.

When folks are "dependent" on what they have at home, they're not freely choosing to take part in it, are they?

So often I hear "I need my S/O" or "I'd die without you." That's awesome when watching a movie with a girl you're trying to score with. Not so awesome in real life - and especially with a wife from the FSU. Try that sh!t, and that highway's going to be a pretty short drive.

I'm in the smaller contingent (according to VV) whose first marriage is to a Russian. I didn't marry her because she was Russian or because of what people said about Russians.

1st marriage here too. (That's why I sound like such an expert, right?)

And I absolutely married my wife because she was Russian. I met her back in 2000 and we didn't get married til the end of '06. In the time between first meeting her and getting married, I sampled various flavors of internationl cuisine and I must say, FSU was the tastiest. Sure, I like spicy Thai, Mexican, and even some home-style pizza, but, the difference is like eating a store brand $1 microwave pizza or a stuffed-crust Digiorno. It's still pizza so it's gonna be good, but the level of satisfaction between that $1 microwave pizza and the "it's not delivery it's Digiorno" is amazingly different, so much so that I've pretty much sworn off the cheap stuff.

Don't get me wrong, it's still pizza and I still like it, but anyone who says they like the cheap stuff better is a liar. (Or drunk.)

I just changed jobs and today was my first day. I was summarily pulled aside in the hall whilst attempting a restroom break and yelled at for not being in class and out of dress-code. Other than being mistaken for a 7th-grader, my day was actually fairly great!

Don't let those ghetto kids hate on you like that!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

slim...

I am not up to all that fancy cut and paste. Yes, Alla is 40 (or thereabouts I am not empowered to tell exactly) and of course I would never have anything to do with a woman from the FSU under age 35-40, I know better, I lived there. Unless they were raised and finished their education in the soviet system they are not the same as their older sisters on whom the "traditional" wife theory is founded. Sure it was flattering for a mid-40s guy like me to be approached by 22 year olds, I am not going to lie. But in the morning you need to say "bye-bye". It is true, Alla does not complain about silly things, ever. She waited in too many lines to buy a half cucumber while her mother waited in another line for a cup of sour cream. She isn't going to complain about where she is warm, as long as she IS warm. If she has more than bread and water to eat, she doesn't complain. she had, and raised for the most part, two children on her own. She is used to sacrifice. she says when they both finish college (one in college, one in high school now) she "can die" and be happy.

As far as giving up everything..well, I guess that is an individual thing. we still have a very nice flat in Donetsk (cheaper to keep it for visits than rent apartments) and Alla had a pretty good life before I met her. Yes she had to do all the things a man should do and she didn't like it, but she did it well. She was, after all, in Prague on business when I met her and we flew there on the same airplane (I didn't see her on the airplane, not sure how I missed her, my radar must have been jammed) so yes, she did give up something to be here and her standard of living is not much improved (more reliable hot water) Yes, she now has a car, but she also has to drive 40 miles to get to anything. In Donetsk we walked outside and boarded a bus to anywhere, we didn't need a car. We went to the theatre much more often in Donetsk. We go skiing much more often here and have a private beach with clean water. Trade-offs to be sure, but yes she had a good life before I came along.

I took care of everything for the visa and her travel here, including the animals. It was never a question. She supports me and cares for me, it is never a question. I do what a man should do, she does what a woman should do.

I recently had to spend a few days in the hospital, where do you think Alla was? WITH me. That means sleeps in my bed as she always does. The nurses freaked out the first night! LOL They said she "can't so that". She said "this is my husband, I sleep with my husband, it is not a question" She was incredulous anyone would even say such a thing. "can't sleep with my husband???????? WHAT????!!!!" (I told you, she is afraid of bears coming in the bedroom window, it is NOT a joke) Oh well, she was everyone's favorite visitor before I left and well known throughout the hospital. she was accustomed to Ukraine hospitals where you more or less have to stay with your family member and care for them as the nurses don't. She says that here I was "spoiled" and they "treat you like a king, but you are just a normal guy". LOL

[SMR 368]

Guess you missed the article I posted regarding wife beating in Russia. Have a look and then tell me it's ridiculous.

I did post before I read your article. However, I think the article actually confirms what I am trying to say. FSU women don't like being beaten any more than any other women. It doesn't make them feel better about themselves and it doesn't make them value their husbands/boyfriends more.

Yes, it was, for a long time, an accepted part of Russian culture, as it was in many other countries, including the US at one time. What I was calling ridiculous, and continue to call ridiculous, is the assertion that beating a woman, FSU or otherwise, makes her feel safer, makes her like the man more, or that any woman anywhere wants to be beaten more. Do you know any women that feel like the don't get beaten enough? That's what I'm calling ridiculous.

[eekee 182]

I did post before I read your article. However, I think the article actually confirms what I am trying to say. FSU women don't like being beaten any more than any other women. It doesn't make them feel better about themselves and it doesn't make them value their husbands/boyfriends more.

Yes, it was, for a long time, an accepted part of Russian culture, as it was in many other countries, including the US at one time. What I was calling ridiculous, and continue to call ridiculous, is the assertion that beating a woman, FSU or otherwise, makes her feel safer, makes her like the man more, or that any woman anywhere wants to be beaten more. Do you know any women that feel like the don't get beaten enough? That's what I'm calling ridiculous.

Also, that article was not talking about current Russian life. It was talking about the PAST. Note the use of the past tense throughout the article. (And frankly, it's not even a very good article, considering it doesn't specify what time period they're talking about--pre- or post-Revolutionary etc.) It lends absolutely zero legitimacy to visaveteran's argument that the modern female populace of the FSU enjoy getting beaten by their husbands.

[Darnell 8,480]

Where is the cat today?

and - can we send welcome cards to your postal address, but only addressed to the cat ?

I think yer lass would have a nice warm welcome if she saw the 100 + 'Welcome Home Kittie' postcards and greeting cards from all over the world ..

whatcha think? you up for it ?

[visaveteran 0]

I'd be careful calling anything "ridiculous" when you are: 1. Not a Russian woman and 2. You don't understand Russian culture and traditions...much of it centering on the Orthodox Church...the same one as today which advocated for a husband to control his wife by the whip.

The Church has a somewhat limited effect on all Russians as many are now non believers but the effect remains wide scale...especially in the smaller cities, towns and rural villages beyond Moscow or St. Petersburg. In many ways life is still that of peasants in many areas. And Russians, IMO, hold unto their old ways far more than we Americans do. Look at the many goofy traditions our wives bring over with them...and their superstitions we find archaic.

If every wife in a village has her husband whip her, and that is the norm and the way of the villagers, then a woman will expect to be whipped and move on with her life. It's not about liking or disliking, it's about living within the rules and the traditions one is surrounded by.

We arrogant Americans think our ways are the best ways and the rest of the world are barbarians...so we inflict our ways, our norm, mores, and values on them and they quickly reject them. The world is full of cultures that beat their wives...probably worst in the Middle East and African areas...but Asia has its traditions of wife abuse also.

Here's another piece i found about the Russian wife beating tradition:

The Status of Russian Women

In Russia, the husbands and wives of common people were closer than were the husbands and wives of the upper classes. Christian tradition among the Russians held them to the belief that a husband had authority over his wife, and it was common for a religiously devout husband to discipline his wife by beating her. But among common folks a husband and wife were likely to be friends, and to remain friends despite the beatings. Wives, as devout if not more so than their husbands, might expect an occasional beating, and some husbands who beat their wife might ask for her forgiveness. A husband and wife were in need of each other, struggling as they were to survive. They laughed and cried together. They bathed together, and they ate together with other couples of their small community -- especially in winter, when they entertained themselves by getting drunk together.

The upper classes were more inclined to follow the cultural tradition inherited from the Eastern Orthodox Christianity from Constantinople and keep males and females apart from each other. In upper class families boys and girls were segregated. The tradition from Constantinople held women inferior, as more childlike and simple than men and, given the opportunity, as wicked as the original Eve. Girls were kept locked behind doors and taught prayer and household skills such as embroidery. While still adolescents, girls might be married to someone the father had decided was appropriate -- after negotiations involving dowry size and assurances that the girl was a virgin. The father would order the girl to stand with him and be introduced to her husband-to-be. It was common for a little ceremony to follow. The father would touch his daughter's back with a coiled whip and say that she would now be free of his authority but that he was passing that authority to her future husband who, in his stead, would admonish her with this same whip, which he then gave to the husband-to-be. Carrying on the ritual, the husband-to-be declared that he believed that he would have no need to use the whip, and he attached it to his belt.

In the wedding ceremony, the young bride pledged fidelity to her husband. They exchanged rings. They were blessed by the Church, and the bride touched her forehead to her husband's shoes as a gesture of her subjugation. Then the groom covered his bride with the hem of his coat, symbolizing his obligation to support and protect her. Immediately they went to a nuptial bedroom while the wedding guests partied. The groom was given two hours. Then the guests, in accordance with tradition, burst into the bedroom, and upon hearing confirmation that the girl had been a virgin all cheered and continued their celebration.

The bride then went on to a life without rights except through the husband, just as she had had no rights except through her father. It was her duty to see to her husband's comfort and to bear his children. If the wife of an upperclass man was disobedient he might beat her. A work dating back to 1556, called The Household Management Code, attributed to a monk named Sylvester, advised that a disobedient wife should be whipped, with politeness rather than anger, and in secret. If a women turned on a husband she might try to kill him to protect herself, and if she succeeded and was prosecuted for it punishment was commonly burial up to the neck and being left to die.

[Ban Hammer 14,575]

[SMR 368]

I'd be careful calling anything "ridiculous" when you are: 1. Not a Russian woman and 2. You don't understand Russian culture and traditions...much of it centering on the Orthodox Church...the same one as today which advocated for a husband to control his wife by the whip.

The Church has a somewhat limited effect on all Russians as many are now non believers but the effect remains wide scale...especially in the smaller cities, towns and rural villages beyond Moscow or St. Petersburg. In many ways life is still that of peasants in many areas. And Russians, IMO, hold unto their old ways far more than we Americans do. Look at the many goofy traditions our wives bring over with them...and their superstitions we find archaic.

If every wife in a village has her husband whip her, and that is the norm and the way of the villagers, then a woman will expect to be whipped and move on with her life. It's not about liking or disliking, it's about living within the rules and the traditions one is surrounded by.

We arrogant Americans think our ways are the best ways and the rest of the world are barbarians...so we inflict our ways, our norm, mores, and values on them and they quickly reject them. The world is full of cultures that beat their wives...probably worst in the Middle East and African areas...but Asia has its traditions of wife abuse also.

Here's another piece i found about the Russian wife beating tradition:

The Status of Russian Women

In Russia, the husbands and wives of common people were closer than were the husbands and wives of the upper classes. Christian tradition among the Russians held them to the belief that a husband had authority over his wife, and it was common for a religiously devout husband to discipline his wife by beating her. But among common folks a husband and wife were likely to be friends, and to remain friends despite the beatings. Wives, as devout if not more so than their husbands, might expect an occasional beating, and some husbands who beat their wife might ask for her forgiveness. A husband and wife were in need of each other, struggling as they were to survive. They laughed and cried together. They bathed together, and they ate together with other couples of their small community -- especially in winter, when they entertained themselves by getting drunk together.

The upper classes were more inclined to follow the cultural tradition inherited from the Eastern Orthodox Christianity from Constantinople and keep males and females apart from each other. In upper class families boys and girls were segregated. The tradition from Constantinople held women inferior, as more childlike and simple than men and, given the opportunity, as wicked as the original Eve. Girls were kept locked behind doors and taught prayer and household skills such as embroidery. While still adolescents, girls might be married to someone the father had decided was appropriate -- after negotiations involving dowry size and assurances that the girl was a virgin. The father would order the girl to stand with him and be introduced to her husband-to-be. It was common for a little ceremony to follow. The father would touch his daughter's back with a coiled whip and say that she would now be free of his authority but that he was passing that authority to her future husband who, in his stead, would admonish her with this same whip, which he then gave to the husband-to-be. Carrying on the ritual, the husband-to-be declared that he believed that he would have no need to use the whip, and he attached it to his belt.

In the wedding ceremony, the young bride pledged fidelity to her husband. They exchanged rings. They were blessed by the Church, and the bride touched her forehead to her husband's shoes as a gesture of her subjugation. Then the groom covered his bride with the hem of his coat, symbolizing his obligation to support and protect her. Immediately they went to a nuptial bedroom while the wedding guests partied. The groom was given two hours. Then the guests, in accordance with tradition, burst into the bedroom, and upon hearing confirmation that the girl had been a virgin all cheered and continued their celebration.

The bride then went on to a life without rights except through the husband, just as she had had no rights except through her father. It was her duty to see to her husband's comfort and to bear his children. If the wife of an upperclass man was disobedient he might beat her. A work dating back to 1556, called The Household Management Code, attributed to a monk named Sylvester, advised that a disobedient wife should be whipped, with politeness rather than anger, and in secret. If a women turned on a husband she might try to kill him to protect herself, and if she succeeded and was prosecuted for it punishment was commonly burial up to the neck and being left to die.

So, you think there are Russian women who think their husbands don't beat them enough? Or are you simply suggesting that a Russian woman will leave you if you don't beat her enough?

[visaveteran 0]

Concerning the forum men bashing or demeaning American women, here is what I have to say.

I think less of American women, in general, since being exposed to Russian women. Meeting Russian women for the first time was like time traveling back perhaps a century in American history. The old ways were not old in Russia, they were relevant to the "here and now."

If a man has been brainwashed to believe the hardcore feminist line (Mox, are you listening?), then he must dislike himself and bow to the great earth mother and tow the feminist line. No flirting except in very limited situations. Women should not "dress for men" (i.e., high heels, sexy dresses and skirts, low cut blouses, etc.). Yeah, it's maybe OK to hold the door or pick up the dinner tab but that's where old school ends.

I see young couples going out on the weekend and both the man and the woman look like they're going camping. Someone shoot Levi Strauss. But what is going on is it's hard to tell any difference between the dress of the man and the woman. Unisex. Equality...they both look equally like sh!t. The lowest common denominator got lower. Russian women would not run out to buy milk looking like that. Unisex equals gender role confusion. Who is whom? Who's on first? Who's on top? And what was once about gender cooperation has mutated into gedner competition...as in the work place, the military, the police force, etc.

And it is about a prevailing attitude that women are owed something in the US. Men need to pay reparations Women have embraced victim-hood and act as the minority when in truth they are in the majority. The reason men still dominate many areas of US life is that women don't like women...or trust them. Hillary Clinton could not beat Obama when she had every opportunity and advantage to win. America trusts a black man more than a white woman. I find that telling.

And the bedroom is the real battleground...where the greatest power struggle takes place. American women see sex as a power chip in the game of life...the feminist marching orders...control by withhold.

Here is where Russian women really kick a**. Sex is sex...not a bargaining chip or a means to punish or reward your man (control by withhold). Show me a man with a great sex life and I'll show you a happy, fulfilled and good husband. Good energy begets good energy. When there is giving, there is also receiving, and the natural balance of the masculine and the feminine is restored.

Russian women work very hard to be women. American women try very hard to be man-like in too many areas of life. It's hard to turn off the hardcore feminist inner masculine style of being, and suddenly go to the bedroom and act like a feminine woman. That switch is not easy to throw.

[HannahP 119]

I know I sound like an @$$hole to all the trolling, independent, liberated and modern "visitors" we get here (julianna excluded, of course!) but it is a fact. If you allow your wife to set the tone for the rest of your marriage with her childish, immature, selfish, bullshit shenanigans, she will eventually run you into the ground. The last thing you want to be with your FSU wife is the b!tch. And I don't mean showing your feminine side, I mean washing another man's drawers "pressed or starched?" b!tch.

The more concessions you make, the more you wobble on your opinion, the more you allow her to make up your mind for you... the more she's going to do it and eventually, you're going to be her b!tch. And when you are, she'll have absolutely zero respect left for you and instead of being (secretly) happy with her @$$hole husband, she'll be forced to look elsewhere for happiness.

I guess I come off as trolling but I've been around VJ for many years & have always (in the past) enjoyed the RU forum. I like learning about the quirks of other cultures, and this is often a recurring theme in the RU forum. (MENA, too, which I also enjoy reading for that same reason.) Ya'all have always had your share of anti-American women hating men. Hell, I totally get the desire to have a traditional marriage and even the idea that you have to go overseas to find the right bride. But it seems like this entire forum, which used to be so diverse in its opinions, has been taken over by people like VV who advocate beating their wives. Shouldn't variety be the spice of life? The bitterness makes me sad because I remember the way this forum used to be.

However, my main argument is that YOUR argument goes both ways. I have a man that does not even nominally cook, clean, or take care of himself. When we were originally living together, he did his fair share. But during the wait for his gc/ead, where I was working full-time, going to school full-time, and also taking care of the house and cooking everything -- I should have put my foot down somewhere. I now have a man who has gained 100+ lbs (yes, even overweight men are capable of looking gross), refuses to even boil water, and crows for weeks because he took out the garbage once. And I married a liberated, feminist Canadian man.

This whole subforum has become its own little enclave with posters acting like their thoughts/ideas/actions are somehow different because they married a RU woman. That's not true.

[HannahP 119]

Concerning the forum men bashing or demeaning American women, here is what I have to say.

You seem very intent on what you perceive that MEN want from a woman -- but what about what a woman wants from her own life?

My mother grew up in the environment that you think is "best"...where most women were shuffled away into the private life of caring for their husbands and children. My mother received excellent grades but was not allowed into Honors classes because she was a girl. Instead, she received a "woman's" education in HomEc, sewing, etc. One of my most prominent memories about growing up was how my mom could not go anywhere without spending at least an hour doing her make-up. She refused to allow herself to be seen in public without her "mask" of woman-hood.

Fast forward to someone like me and any of my potential daughters. Feminism for me has always been about opportunity. I want the choices that my mother didn't have. I want my daughter to take advanced science and math classes if she wants to. I don't want to pre-assigned to a future of raising children because of my gender. I want the freedom to choose what I should or shouldn't not wear when I go grocery shopping.

That doesn't mean that there aren't women out there who want a more traditional role. No real feminist would begrudge these women what they want in life -- because they are CHOOSING what they want.

Empathy is a great thing.

[visaveteran 0]

If you track back to the original points I made about Russian women, it was that they like strong, assertive men, and protective men. They like a man to be the boss, the decision maker and keep them safe. This tradition, in many ways, is church based, and it really doesn't matter how far back you go, church traditions and teachings carry through to modern times...that's why we still celebrate Christmas and Easter. That's why the church still tells us how a man should treat his wife.

Does anyone here think things changed for the better for women under Lenin or Stalin? Stalin sent any woman who refused to sleep with to a Siberian prison. And he was notorious for enjoying beating his lovers as his favorite "foreplay." Does anyone think the peasant culture leaped into the 20th Century under communism?

I am an American man and never raised my voice to my ex wife or son, much less hurt them. Never. End of story. But I did, IMO, act like a man, not a house boy who waited for my next set of orders. Being the boss or leader does not require violence, but strength of character and will. But I am an American and that is my way. Russia is Russia and has different ways. If the men and women accept it, so be it. Who am I to arrogantly condemn their ways.

I have been a very harsh critic of Russian men and in doing so, many of the forum choir chimed in that I was being too harsh and unfair to them. That they are not a bunch of wife abusing drunks and cheaters (still my basic viewpoint). Now I hear the moral poice singing a different tune. I also have heard many men say how great the Russian culture is and even want to live there it's so great. Now I hear the culture is anti-women and abusive in its traditions and cultural behaviors between the sexes.

Which is it boys and girls?