The Efficacy of Gun Data

[one...two...tree 2,762]

BY - you need to accept the fact that here in America, we are always going to have guns. It's not only a constitutional right, but is ingrained in the American psyche. If you want to advocate specific regulations on guns, then that's one thing, but making the general argument that guns are evil is pointless, irrational, and unproductive.

I get what you are saying. It's the reason why this country has so many problems that are either non-existent or negligible in most other first world countries. It's the same deal with you guys and topics like illegal aliens to minorities and crime. You guys refuse to accept the reality, furthermore, refuse to discuss it logically and without including personal biases. After so many years here you get what is a trait, that is, common to people here. E.G. the refusal to accept that others are doing numerous things better. I never said America should change its whole way of life but at least accept others do things better. Yet to this day, I believe one American in this forum has acknowledge this.

It's no coincidence the rest of the world thinks what they do about Americans. If it makes people feel better, yes people can sit here and say that's Booyah's opinion and call me names but it is what it is. You don't believe me? You shouldn't, go to any English speaking forum in a first world country and ask them what they think of the United States 2nd Amendment and guns.

IMO, the high number of gun deaths here in America could be reduced by several ways, while still allowing law-abiding citizens the right to own firearms. Most of the gun deaths are accidental (safety). There are solutions...unfortunately, the gun lobby fights tooth and nail against any and all regulations.

[Heracles 417]

IMO, the high number of gun deaths here in America could be reduced by several ways, while still allowing law-abiding citizens the right to own firearms. Most of the gun deaths are accidental (safety). There are solutions...unfortunately, the gun lobby fights tooth and nail against any and all regulations.

Of course. I never advocated a total gun ban. In our lifetime that is just not going tot happen. Certainly not with the number of idiots still around.

Guns are still alive and kicking in Aus too. A farmer is still allowed to own a rifle. What is not allowed is semi-automatics to be carried outside gun clubs. Fully automatics are banned period. The types of handguns I own here will have to be destroyed once I move back because I am not allowed to have them in Aus; too powerful.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[slim 1,533]

Most of the gun deaths are accidental (safety). There are solutions...unfortunately, the gun lobby fights tooth and nail against any and all regulations.

Not true. Also, how do you stop accidents from happening?

If you're referring to gun locks, etc., sure, they're 100% effective. But, that still requires an adult to make a smart decision... much like requiring adults to not shoot each other, even though they still do.

[justashooter 430]

Why the need to destroy background check records within 24 hours? That's insane and most probably something the gun lobby pushed to get passed.

federal law does not allow for a "registry' of firearms ownership. this prohibition is intended to prevent a seizure of firearms by a rogue government. it is that simple.

in pennsylvania the state police, in defiance of the state constitution, keep a permanant "record of transaction" on all handgun sales within the state. this sales database does not include transfers of firearms between immediate family members. they are specifically forbidden by the state constitution to do so, but have argued successfully in front of liberal judges that the incompleteness of the record of sale prevents it from being a de-facto registration.

i know of people who have been relieved of their firearms during routine stops because the gun did not show up in the "registry" (officers words). these people have been forced to petition at their own expense for return of their property through the court. these people have been wronged by a broken system.

[Ban Hammer 14,665]

Why the need to destroy background check records within 24 hours? That's insane and most probably something the gun lobby pushed to get passed.

federal law does not allow for a "registry' of firearms ownership. this prohibition is intended to prevent a seizure of firearms by a rogue government. it is that simple.

in pennsylvania the state police, in defiance of the state constitution, keep a permanant "record of transaction" on all handgun sales within the state. this sales database does not include transfers of firearms between immediate family members. they are specifically forbidden by the state constitution to do so, but have argued successfully in front of liberal judges that the incompleteness of the record of sale prevents it from being a de-facto registration.

i know of people who have been relieved of their firearms during routine stops because the gun did not show up in the "registry" (officers words). these people have been forced to petition at their own expense for return of their property through the court. these people have been wronged by a broken system.

if some had their way around here, we'd all undergo monthly psych tests and pay for that test along with a hefty "fee" to exercise our 2nd amendment rights.

[MrsCat 6]

if some had their way around here, we'd all undergo monthly psych tests and pay for that test along with a hefty "fee" to exercise our 2nd amendment rights.

I'd never have passed.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why the need to destroy background check records within 24 hours? That's insane and most probably something the gun lobby pushed to get passed.

federal law does not allow for a "registry' of firearms ownership. this prohibition is intended to prevent a seizure of firearms by a rogue government. it is that simple.

Nothing but paranoid, irrational fear mongering.

[MrsCat 6]

Why the need to destroy background check records within 24 hours? That's insane and most probably something the gun lobby pushed to get passed.

federal law does not allow for a "registry' of firearms ownership. this prohibition is intended to prevent a seizure of firearms by a rogue government. it is that simple.

Nothing but paranoid, irrational fear mongering.

Same could be said for people's fear of an innate object. hoplophobia.

[Heracles 417]

this prohibition is intended to prevent a seizure of firearms by a rogue government. it is that simple.

Nothing but paranoid, irrational fear mongering.

I get what this is about. Its a clash of class and a lack of education; coupled with ignorance, stubbornness and delusional thoughts of the government taking over by force. An attitude akin to third world countries.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Booyah!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why the need to destroy background check records within 24 hours? That's insane and most probably something the gun lobby pushed to get passed.

federal law does not allow for a "registry' of firearms ownership. this prohibition is intended to prevent a seizure of firearms by a rogue government. it is that simple.

Nothing but paranoid, irrational fear mongering.

Same could be said for people's fear of an innate object. hoplophobia.

True. I agree there's extremes on both sides of the gun issue. But in the case of shortening the purchase records from 180 days to 24 hours is just absurd...and especially if the logic behind is in fact what JS said. Had the FBI been able to find out that Hassan had purchased the guns, it might have changed the outcome, just like if he had tried to buy fertilizer.

[Heracles 417]

The only first world country left obsessed with guns is the United States of America. No other way to cut it or look at it.

People need not care nor are they asked to care what others abroad think, however, it does not change reality of every other first world countrys' perception of the US and its knuckle dragging lust for guns. Why start caring now right?

Edited November 29, 2009 by Booyah!

[Ban Hammer 14,665]

True. I agree there's extremes on both sides of the gun issue. But in the case of shortening the purchase records from 180 days to 24 hours is just absurd...and especially if the logic behind is in fact what JS said. Had the FBI been able to find out that Hassan had purchased the guns, it might have changed the outcome, just like if he had tried to buy fertilizer.

how? was he on some watch list?

[HAL 9000 96]

One good battery of testing would be fine, Chuck.

But thanks for showing more paranoia. That's pretty concerning- maybe not on you personally but certainly on some of the real crazies out there.

[justashooter 430]

True. I agree there's extremes on both sides of the gun issue. But in the case of shortening the purchase records from 180 days to 24 hours is just absurd...and especially if the logic behind is in fact what JS said. Had the FBI been able to find out that Hassan had purchased the guns, it might have changed the outcome, just like if he had tried to buy fertilizer.

the Tiahrt Amendment was enacted primarily to prevent firearms transaction data from being released to special interest non-governmental organisations. such organisations had previously used this data in effort to advance their agenda to disarm American people. handgun control (brady) was high on the list of offenders. in a seperate section, the amendment also reduced the time frame in which NICS data is held to the period required for actual investigation of the individuals receiving the firearms (NICS check).

"Tiahrt is the author of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) from releasing information from its firearms trace database to anyone other than a law enforcement agency or prosecutor in connection with a criminal investigation. Additionally, any data so released is inadmissible in a civil lawsuit.[5] Some groups, including the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition, believe that having further access to the BATFE database would help municipal police departments track down sellers of illegal guns and curb crime. These groups are trying to undo the Tiahrt Amendment.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Tiahrt

[JimVaPhuong 4,865]

BY - you need to accept the fact that here in America, we are always going to have guns. It's not only a constitutional right, but is ingrained in the American psyche. If you want to advocate specific regulations on guns, then that's one thing, but making the general argument that guns are evil is pointless, irrational, and unproductive.

I get what you are saying. It's the reason why this country has so many problems that are either non-existent or negligible in most other first world countries. It's the same deal with you guys and topics like illegal aliens to minorities and crime. You guys refuse to accept the reality, furthermore, refuse to discuss it logically and without including personal biases. After so many years here you get what is a trait, that is, common to people here. E.G. the refusal to accept that others are doing numerous things better. I never said America should change its whole way of life but at least accept others do things better. Yet to this day, I believe one American in this forum has acknowledge this.

It's no coincidence the rest of the world thinks what they do about Americans. If it makes people feel better, yes people can sit here and say that's Booyah's opinion and call me names but it is what it is. You don't believe me? You shouldn't, go to any English speaking forum in a first world country and ask them what they think of the United States 2nd Amendment and guns.

Arguments like this fall on deaf ears in America, since many (maybe most) Americans believe the US is the last western country with anything even resembling a free society, and citizens in other countries have rolled over and capitulated to their overbearing governments, and given up essential freedoms in exchange for the promise of safety. Foreigners love to say how Americans use fear mongering to justify keeping their right to own guns, while those same foreigners used fear mongering to scare their own populations into giving up their guns in the interest of safety.

No American should give a damn what people in other first world countries think about US gun laws, but they should be more than a little suspicious why those people are so opinionated when it comes to laws in the US. Why are Brits and Aussies so incensed about gun laws in the US, when Americans couldn't care less about gun laws in the UK and Australia?