Unwinnable War?

[alienlovechild 75]

Yes its pity these days that we can't indulge total war isn't it.

How dare those bastards at the UN spoil our fun. Tricky ####### knew what he was doing when he asked Henry Kissinger to "think outside the box".

The UN is doing nothing in Afghanistan nor is preventing anything there either.

The UN hasn't had much of a had much effect in Iraq except authorizing sanctions, weapons inspectors and resolutions prior to the war.

BTW, it's nearly impossible to wage total war on a country you're protecting. Your allies have a nasty habit of not liking their country razed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes its pity these days that we can't indulge total war isn't it.

How dare those bastards at the UN spoil our fun. Tricky ####### knew what he was doing when he asked Henry Kissinger to "think outside the box".

The UN is doing nothing in Afghanistan nor is preventing anything there either.

The UN hasn't had much of a had much effect in Iraq except authorizing sanctions, weapons inspectors and resolutions prior to the war.

BTW, it's nearly impossible to wage total war on a country you're protecting. Your allies have a nasty habit of not liking their country razed.

Tell that to Danno - he's the one with the issue about the "Kinder Gentler" way of doing war

[HannahP 119]

and then I was like LOL at Danno

/and so were you

[sara..... 371]

have u got a better reason our highly trained teams were not sent in to extract ben?

or is it that we really dont have that ability

That's wrong as there have been Special Forces in Afghanistan (and Pakistan?) for years. The problem lies in the difficult terrain and Bin Laden allying with folks that are loyal enough not to go for bribes. The conspiracy divisions may now add Obama to the list since he has not gotten OLB either despite his troop surge in Afghanistan and Predator missile attacks in Pakistan.

In this case it was the arrogance of the Bush Administration starting wars they couldn't finish - and in so doing putting the country in a very bad position with extremely limited options.

Technically correct but the Iraq War wound down during Bush's presidency to nearly the point of insignificance as a national issue in the U.S. Certainly Obama can claim little credit (or blame) for Iraq.

ok but correct me if i am wrong didnt bushy push Afghanistan for ben what ever? seems thats all that bushy asked for and when they didnt comply because bushy didnt show them absolute proof that ben what ever did the deed thats when we went in.

if ben what ever had been extracted there would not have been a war in Afghanistan if im understanding bushys demands of Afghanistan

sara

[luckytxn 2,265]

Yes its pity these days that we can't indulge total war isn't it.

How dare those bastards at the UN spoil our fun. Tricky ####### knew what he was doing when he asked Henry Kissinger to "think outside the box".

The UN is doing nothing in Afghanistan nor is preventing anything there either.

The UN hasn't had much of a had much effect in Iraq except authorizing sanctions, weapons inspectors and resolutions prior to the war.

BTW, it's nearly impossible to wage total war on a country you're protecting. Your allies have a nasty habit of not liking their country razed.

The oil for food program was wildly popular at the UN. The gorging at the trough was upset by Georgie Poo going in with force to end that corruption.

[nowhereman 1]

I was an Army Civil Affairs officer for 8 years (still qualified as one) and what we're doing in Afghanistan & Iraq are essentially CA missions. For the most part we are conducting "Stability Operations" which is defined as "sustaining and exploiting security and control over areas, populations, and resources. Stability operations employ military capabilities to reconstruct or establish services and support civilian agencies. Stability operations involve both coercive and cooperative actions".

You can't really compare Aghanistan or Iraq to say WWII because that was a totally different animal (conventional warfare). Furthermore globalization has a profound impact as well, not the least of which is instant coverage of what's going on. Unlike a lot of people I for one feel that the media does more good than harm, but could you imagine Patton in today's environment? He would probably be relieved of command or court marshaled if he were a General today (don't get me wrong I admire Patton for his tactical genius).

[Ban Hammer 14,619]

I was an Army Civil Affairs officer for 8 years (still qualified as one) and what we're doing in Afghanistan & Iraq are essentially CA missions. For the most part we are conducting "Stability Operations" which is defined as "sustaining and exploiting security and control over areas, populations, and resources. Stability operations employ military capabilities to reconstruct or establish services and support civilian agencies. Stability operations involve both coercive and cooperative actions".

You can't really compare Aghanistan or Iraq to say WWII because that was a totally different animal (conventional warfare). Furthermore globalization has a profound impact as well, not the least of which is instant coverage of what's going on. Unlike a lot of people I for one feel that the media does more good than harm, but could you imagine Patton in today's environment? He would probably be relieved of command or court marshaled if he were a General today (don't get me wrong I admire Patton for his tactical genius).

with a healthy dose of LIC and COIN too in both countries.

[luckytxn 2,265]

I was an Army Civil Affairs officer for 8 years (still qualified as one) and what we're doing in Afghanistan & Iraq are essentially CA missions. For the most part we are conducting "Stability Operations" which is defined as "sustaining and exploiting security and control over areas, populations, and resources. Stability operations employ military capabilities to reconstruct or establish services and support civilian agencies. Stability operations involve both coercive and cooperative actions".

You can't really compare Aghanistan or Iraq to say WWII because that was a totally different animal (conventional warfare). Furthermore globalization has a profound impact as well, not the least of which is instant coverage of what's going on. Unlike a lot of people I for one feel that the media does more good than harm, but could you imagine Patton in today's environment? He would probably be relieved of command or court marshaled if he were a General today (don't get me wrong I admire Patton for his tactical genius).

He was pretty much relieved of command back then too.

[nowhereman 1]

I was an Army Civil Affairs officer for 8 years (still qualified as one) and what we're doing in Afghanistan & Iraq are essentially CA missions. For the most part we are conducting "Stability Operations" which is defined as "sustaining and exploiting security and control over areas, populations, and resources. Stability operations employ military capabilities to reconstruct or establish services and support civilian agencies. Stability operations involve both coercive and cooperative actions".

You can't really compare Aghanistan or Iraq to say WWII because that was a totally different animal (conventional warfare). Furthermore globalization has a profound impact as well, not the least of which is instant coverage of what's going on. Unlike a lot of people I for one feel that the media does more good than harm, but could you imagine Patton in today's environment? He would probably be relieved of command or court marshaled if he were a General today (don't get me wrong I admire Patton for his tactical genius).

He was pretty much relieved of command back then too.

Yea I believe Eisenhower relieved him? A lot of great Generals in WWII, but a lot of big egos.

[luckytxn 2,265]

I was an Army Civil Affairs officer for 8 years (still qualified as one) and what we're doing in Afghanistan & Iraq are essentially CA missions. For the most part we are conducting "Stability Operations" which is defined as "sustaining and exploiting security and control over areas, populations, and resources. Stability operations employ military capabilities to reconstruct or establish services and support civilian agencies. Stability operations involve both coercive and cooperative actions".

You can't really compare Aghanistan or Iraq to say WWII because that was a totally different animal (conventional warfare). Furthermore globalization has a profound impact as well, not the least of which is instant coverage of what's going on. Unlike a lot of people I for one feel that the media does more good than harm, but could you imagine Patton in today's environment? He would probably be relieved of command or court marshaled if he were a General today (don't get me wrong I admire Patton for his tactical genius).

He was pretty much relieved of command back then too.

Yea I believe Eisenhower relieved him? A lot of great Generals in WWII, but a lot of big egos.

Yes there were. I am sure Eisenhower was pressured a tad by the backlash back home when all the papers wrote about a certain antic he did. He was a genius at warfare but not good at controlling the temper.

[Danno 1,228]

What exactly are we doing in Afghanistan - Propping up a corrupt and failing government that can't stand up on its own?

It may or may not but this is what we get with the "Kinder Gentler" way of doing war.

If it's worth going to war it should be worth acting serious, you can win with fear of killing innocent peps.

Ask the city of Dresden Germany.

I think you should spend some time with some ww2 vets, before it's too late. Their feelings on killing innocent people was what led to the mass wave of revulsion against war and hence the notion of a peace keeping force that had no national allegiance. Sadly, national interests in the US were always the biggest obstacle to that being anything more than a 'unicorn and rainbows' project.

Those darn Americans.... always putting their "National interests" before others.

So sad,... hard to imagine "what might have been",

Perhaps a world where African children have hope in a better tomorrow instead of hope they won't be raped by U.N. workers tomorrow?

[Peikko 1,575]

What exactly are we doing in Afghanistan - Propping up a corrupt and failing government that can't stand up on its own?

It may or may not but this is what we get with the "Kinder Gentler" way of doing war.

If it's worth going to war it should be worth acting serious, you can win with fear of killing innocent peps.

Ask the city of Dresden Germany.

I think you should spend some time with some ww2 vets, before it's too late. Their feelings on killing innocent people was what led to the mass wave of revulsion against war and hence the notion of a peace keeping force that had no national allegiance. Sadly, national interests in the US were always the biggest obstacle to that being anything more than a 'unicorn and rainbows' project.

Those darn Americans.... always putting their "National interests" before others.

So sad,... hard to imagine "what might have been",

Perhaps a world where African children have hope in a better tomorrow instead of hope they won't be raped by U.N. workers tomorrow?

Try reading what is written instead of interpreting others words to fit your own agenda. As I said, try visting some of the vets from ww2 before it's too late.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

What exactly are we doing in Afghanistan - Propping up a corrupt and failing government that can't stand up on its own?

It may or may not but this is what we get with the "Kinder Gentler" way of doing war.

If it's worth going to war it should be worth acting serious, you can win with fear of killing innocent peps.

Ask the city of Dresden Germany.

I think you should spend some time with some ww2 vets, before it's too late. Their feelings on killing innocent people was what led to the mass wave of revulsion against war and hence the notion of a peace keeping force that had no national allegiance. Sadly, national interests in the US were always the biggest obstacle to that being anything more than a 'unicorn and rainbows' project.

Those darn Americans.... always putting their "National interests" before others.

So sad,... hard to imagine "what might have been",

Perhaps a world where African children have hope in a better tomorrow instead of hope they won't be raped by U.N. workers tomorrow?

Try reading what is written instead of interpreting others words to fit your own agenda. As I said, try visting some of the vets from ww2 before it's too late.

I find it hard to believe you respect ANY veterans.

[nowhereman 1]

What exactly are we doing in Afghanistan - Propping up a corrupt and failing government that can't stand up on its own?

It may or may not but this is what we get with the "Kinder Gentler" way of doing war.

If it's worth going to war it should be worth acting serious, you can win with fear of killing innocent peps.

Ask the city of Dresden Germany.

I think you should spend some time with some ww2 vets, before it's too late. Their feelings on killing innocent people was what led to the mass wave of revulsion against war and hence the notion of a peace keeping force that had no national allegiance. Sadly, national interests in the US were always the biggest obstacle to that being anything more than a 'unicorn and rainbows' project.

Those darn Americans.... always putting their "National interests" before others.

So sad,... hard to imagine "what might have been",

Perhaps a world where African children have hope in a better tomorrow instead of hope they won't be raped by U.N. workers tomorrow?

Try reading what is written instead of interpreting others words to fit your own agenda. As I said, try visting some of the vets from ww2 before it's too late.

I find it hard to believe you respect ANY veterans.

War is hell... there hasn't been a war in history where some sort of atrocity wasn't committed. I am by no means condoning such things, but my point is that you have to look at the big picture. WWII was absolutely necessary & you can't "throw out the baby with the dirty bath water" just because some awful things happened.

As for national interests of course the US has some self-serving interests, but so does every other country. We are a great nation, but far from perfect. The world isn't black & white, but really just lighter & darker shades of gray. As long as we're a lighter shade of gray than everyone else that's about all you can hope for.

[NickD 203]

have u got a better reason our highly trained teams were not sent in to extract ben?

or is it that we really dont have that ability

That's wrong as there have been Special Forces in Afghanistan (and Pakistan?) for years. The problem lies in the difficult terrain and Bin Laden allying with folks that are loyal enough not to go for bribes. The conspiracy divisions may now add Obama to the list since he has not gotten OLB either despite his troop surge in Afghanistan and Predator missile attacks in Pakistan.

In this case it was the arrogance of the Bush Administration starting wars they couldn't finish - and in so doing putting the country in a very bad position with extremely limited options.

Technically correct but the Iraq War wound down during Bush's presidency to nearly the point of insignificance as a national issue in the U.S. Certainly Obama can claim little credit (or blame) for Iraq.

But aren't you leaving out one minor point about Iraq? Iraq was never a threat to us. Bush senior had enough sense to leave Saddam with a little bit of power to keep Iran off our backs, his son is an idiot.