Sticky situation?

[yehaww 0]

If she visited and we decide to marry after 2 months and I filed for a k3 or cr1, how long would she have to go back for?

[JERIII 8]

Would she be coming to the US under the VWP (which is limited to 90 days, I think), or would she be applying for a visitor visa?

It is really possible to make too much out of this intent issue. It is not automatically intent to immigrate if you come to visit someone you already know and then get married and adjust status. People talk about this as though the only legal marriages on visitor visas are ones where the couple didn't know each other - this is just silly. Pay attention to the Matter of Cavazos that was raised earlier. As john and marlene say, the biggest problem is misrepresentation, not intent. If she has to apply for a visa, then there is more likely to be a problem with what she says in the visa application looking being a lie.

Edited April 28, 2009 by JERIII

[rebeccajo 14]

It seems to me that if your girlfriend is giving up her job, that's quite a large risk for someone who 'has not made up their mind'.

Most Europeans have the option of taking an unpaid sabbatical from their jobs while still retaining them. This is what my husband did when he felt he wanted a longer visit to make up his mind for certain about life in the US.

I'm not a proponent of criticizing persons for adjusting from the VWP. But I do think persons should weigh carefully whether or not they are abusing it simply to avoid long separations.

It is possible to file a K1 whilst your girlfriend is here. The only extra thing one has to do is enter her current I94W number on the I129F. She can stay here with you for up to 90 days whilst the petition is processing before she returns to her home country.

Well, sure it's a big decision, and a risk on her part. But we've hit a point in our relationship where we have to make the decision, and it's not one easily made on 2 week visits and phone calls. You can learn a lot about someone and compatibility by living with them for 2 or 3 months that you can't learn from sporadic visits and phone calls and e-mails. She was laid off last year and just got this current job a few months ago. She already took vacation time in advance for my last visit to see her, so she doesn't really have any more time off coming up, hence the decision to leave it to come here to for a trial cohabitation, so to speak. How would anyone know she quit her job if she doesn't tell them?

The problem with filing for a K1 while she's here, is that she's already going to be out of work for 3 months for her visit. Pushing that to another 6 months out of work would be financially tough. What would be the benefit of filing K1 if she's already here and we decide to marry?

Well, probably no one is going to know if she quit her job unless they (Customs and Border Patrol) happen to ask her.

I'm not sure I follow your logic about her being out of work.

I hope you aren't under the assumption that she can file for adjustment and work immediately in the US. She'll need to wait on an EAD just like anyone else - which is normally 90 days (or a bit less) from the date she files her adjustment.

So, you two have been back and forth between each other's country visiting, etc. Now you want to get together and live together to see if you like that and maybe you'll decide to get married. All of this "history" will show up in the AOS proceedings. How can one NOT get the impression that you two were an item before her intended next "just a visitor visit"?

Sure sounds like prior intent to me. Doesn't at all sound like "I was just visiting and I met this tremendous guy."

Bring her over, decide and marry her. Then you can K-3 or CR1 her while she is here but she'll just have to go back for the final interview over there.

Being in a relationship doesn't immediately mean 'intent to immigrate to the US'.

[^KK^ 3]

This is sticky...I wish you the best. I hope everything work out.

[Shelly&Jay 0]

Yehhew, the two of you need to make an informed decision. Look at the guides on here and the processing times. Keep in mind those are just estimates. Look at the USCIS site.

Ultimately, the two of you need to decide the route you want to go and the possible outcomes both good and bad of that choice. This process does not have a 100% guarantee. If you are looking for that reassurance, I'm not sure any one here can give that. Seek some legal council with an immigration lawyer.

Good luck,

Shelly

[Deborah M 0]

My question is this. I have afriend that has applied for a k-1 visa but has been thinking of hving another, old friend visit her, if he comes on a tourist visa, Can she marry the other? Will she have problems with the first k-1 application by requesting that it be withdrawn after marrying the other man. Can she marry another non immigrant if the k-1 is in procees for another man?

I guess I just want to add a few things. I don't want to give the impression we're looking to scam the system. The purpose of her visit will be for us to really decide if we want to marry. To spend more than just 2 or 3 weeks together. To live together for a few months. But she will not have a job to return to if we decide to not marry. Or if we just got engaged and sent her back to Sweden and filed for a fiance visa. That is why, I guess, if I can do it legally by avoiding a k1, it would make more financial sense to do that, considering her job situation.

So just to reiterate, If she came over here for a visit, like she's done 3 or 4 times before, and I proposed and married her during the time of her visitor visa, then that would be legal? Like I said before we don't know if we will marry or not, but it IS an option that's on the table.

[yehaww 0]

Would she be coming to the US under the VWP (which is limited to 90 days, I think), or would she be applying for a visitor visa?

It is really possible to make too much out of this intent issue. It is not automatically intent to immigrate if you come to visit someone you already know and then get married and adjust status. People talk about this as though the only legal marriages on visitor visas are ones where the couple didn't know each other - this is just silly. Pay attention to the Matter of Cavazos that was raised earlier. As john and marlene say, the biggest problem is misrepresentation, not intent. If she has to apply for a visa, then there is more likely to be a problem with what she says in the visa application looking being a lie.

That's what I'm saying. It's silly to assume that it should only be legal if you didn't know the person before you got here. I would think that scenario would raise more flags than a couple that has a provable history of relationship. It seems perfectly reasonable to think that people could be visiting one another in a relationship and during an extended visit, just decide to get married. We have a long history of visiting without immigrating. Why would they assume this visit is no different.

She's always visited under the VWP in the past, so that's what she'd do this time as well.

[yehaww 0]

It seems to me that if your girlfriend is giving up her job, that's quite a large risk for someone who 'has not made up their mind'.

Most Europeans have the option of taking an unpaid sabbatical from their jobs while still retaining them. This is what my husband did when he felt he wanted a longer visit to make up his mind for certain about life in the US.

I'm not a proponent of criticizing persons for adjusting from the VWP. But I do think persons should weigh carefully whether or not they are abusing it simply to avoid long separations.

It is possible to file a K1 whilst your girlfriend is here. The only extra thing one has to do is enter her current I94W number on the I129F. She can stay here with you for up to 90 days whilst the petition is processing before she returns to her home country.

Well, probably no one is going to know if she quit her job unless they (Customs and Border Patrol) happen to ask her.

I'm not sure I follow your logic about her being out of work.

I hope you aren't under the assumption that she can file for adjustment and work immediately in the US. She'll need to wait on an EAD just like anyone else - which is normally 90 days (or a bit less) from the date she files her adjustment.

Being in a relationship doesn't immediately mean 'intent to immigrate to the US'.

My logic with her being out of work is that she has a fairly new job in Sweden. She wouldn't qualify for any sort of sabbatical. So say she quits and comes here. We give it 3 months and decide to get married. If we do an AOS, she could stay here, be meeting people, making connections, possibly lining up jobs for when she gets her work permit in a few months. (When I mentioned under the table stuff, it was more like occasionally walking dogs for a friend of mine who has a very small business. It's all cash. I guess it would be illegal. But there would be zero chance of getting raided and really not all that much money. Just something to do.)

Option 2 is the K1, which as I understand it, would send her back to Sweden for at least 6 months while we waited for the paperwork to go through. So she's already out of work 3 months to come while we are living together and deciding for sure that this is what we want. Then she goes back to no job. Even assuming she can find another job, which isn't easy in Sweden right now, she'd have to give it up to come back over here once the visa is approved. Then she has to wait to become legally able to work here. That could be a long time of not working. Doing an AOS on the VWP would cut that jobless period by at least 6 months.

[scandal 951]

Would she be coming to the US under the VWP (which is limited to 90 days, I think), or would she be applying for a visitor visa?

It is really possible to make too much out of this intent issue. It is not automatically intent to immigrate if you come to visit someone you already know and then get married and adjust status. People talk about this as though the only legal marriages on visitor visas are ones where the couple didn't know each other - this is just silly. Pay attention to the Matter of Cavazos that was raised earlier. As john and marlene say, the biggest problem is misrepresentation, not intent. If she has to apply for a visa, then there is more likely to be a problem with what she says in the visa application looking being a lie.

That's what I'm saying. It's silly to assume that it should only be legal if you didn't know the person before you got here. I would think that scenario would raise more flags than a couple that has a provable history of relationship. It seems perfectly reasonable to think that people could be visiting one another in a relationship and during an extended visit, just decide to get married. We have a long history of visiting without immigrating. Why would they assume this visit is no different.

She's always visited under the VWP in the past, so that's what she'd do this time as well.

It's your call. You'll do what you want to do. But I wouldn't play those odds.

You've gotten plenty of good advice on this thread that there are perfectly legal ways to achieve your end goal - have her visit, make your decision regarding marriage, file for either K1 or CR1, and have her return home within the limits of the VWP to pursue the visa in Sweden. The only objections I'm hearing you raise to this are (1) the time of separation you'll be facing (2) the financial burden she'll be under due to her job situation. Those are real concerns and you'll have to address them for your personal circumstances. But they're hardly unique. Just about ALL of us patiently filing for immigration of our loved ones are facing variations of these very issues. You're hardly special in this category.

Regarding your hair-splitting attempts to interpret the rules of AOS - if it were as simple as what you are suggesting I dare say EVERYONE who can get a VWP or B2 visa would be on the next plane to the US to follow your lead. "Oh, officer, we weren't 100% sure we were going to get married till I actually saw that twinkle in her eye.." One could always argue some uncertainty about your intent at POE.

The problem with that logic (and Jeriii's post about intent) is that you're convincing USCIS, not a court of law. And the normal due process you would be accorded in court are not going to be found here. The onus is on YOU to prove to their satisfaction that you haven't stepped over their line. And they can be as arbitrary as they like in making their findings. And, the penalty if they don't find in your favor is pretty drastic - bans and deportations. Why risk that kind of downside for such a limited upside? You might be successful, but you very likely may not. I mean, if this was your only choice I'd say go for it. But you're choosing between a slam dunk versus a hail-mary. Not much of a choice I think.

[yehaww 0]

Yehhew, the two of you need to make an informed decision. Look at the guides on here and the processing times. Keep in mind those are just estimates. Look at the USCIS site.

Ultimately, the two of you need to decide the route you want to go and the possible outcomes both good and bad of that choice. This process does not have a 100% guarantee. If you are looking for that reassurance, I'm not sure any one here can give that. Seek some legal council with an immigration lawyer.

Good luck,

Shelly

I did seek some legal council. He advised me to go the "marry her on VWP" route and said it would cost about 5 grand.

[scandal 951]

Yehhew, the two of you need to make an informed decision. Look at the guides on here and the processing times. Keep in mind those are just estimates. Look at the USCIS site.

Ultimately, the two of you need to decide the route you want to go and the possible outcomes both good and bad of that choice. This process does not have a 100% guarantee. If you are looking for that reassurance, I'm not sure any one here can give that. Seek some legal council with an immigration lawyer.

Good luck,

Shelly

I did seek some legal council. He advised me to go the "marry her on VWP" route and said it would cost about 5 grand.

Oh-oh. $5K for a lawyer? Run, don't walk away .....

(And before I get beaten up for saying 'no lawyers' - I'm not saying that. If you feel you need a lawyer, get one. But any lawyer charging $5K for what should be a routine immigration filing is overcharging).

[Shelly&Jay 0]

Yehhew, the two of you need to make an informed decision. Look at the guides on here and the processing times. Keep in mind those are just estimates. Look at the USCIS site.

Ultimately, the two of you need to decide the route you want to go and the possible outcomes both good and bad of that choice. This process does not have a 100% guarantee. If you are looking for that reassurance, I'm not sure any one here can give that. Seek some legal council with an immigration lawyer.

Good luck,

Shelly

I did seek some legal council. He advised me to go the "marry her on VWP" route and said it would cost about 5 grand.

Oh-oh. $5K for a lawyer? Run, don't walk away .....

(And before I get beaten up for saying 'no lawyers' - I'm not saying that. If you feel you need a lawyer, get one. But any lawyer charging $5K for what should be a routine immigration filing is overcharging).

Actually, 5k is only somewhat overpriced depending upon where you live in the country. My husband is on a O1, we had the same immigration lawyers that processed his O1 look at our AOS packet before we sent it. His company paid for the $500 fee for them to go over it. We assembled everything ourselves and filed it ourselves. If we had used the lawyers to prepare the paperwork it would have cost about 4k in addition to the filing fees. We live in orange county in southern CA.

You can do all the leg work yourself. It's time consuming, but you can do it. The immigration lawyer is good for any questions you have such as your situation on how best to go about it. And of course people on VJ are really very helpful.

Good luck,

Shelly

[Cino 5]

I have read all the posts above. I think the best bet for you:

* She can come here on VWP visa which gives you 3 months. (You can easily get to know somebody in 3 months).

* If you decide to get married, you can get married later on her visit with another VWP Visa (after she goes back to Sweden).

You can take so many pictures & get engaged in US (preparing the foundation) etc.....

then apply AOS before her visa expires.

She does not have to leave the country, she can stay here with you but she can not go abroad

until she gets either AP or GC.

Believe me there is no law that says you can get married in the certain amount of time. That is your right you can get married to anyone you choose. You have to tell the story to IO during the interview, how you guys have met etc.....

* If you decide not to get married, you can stay as friends & she can go back to Sweden & look for another job. It is not a biggie.

GOOD LUCK in either way !......

Btw, you do not need a lawyer to file AOS which is very easy. We can help you here. Don't waste your 5K unnecessarily...

Edited April 29, 2009 by Cino

[Krikit 1,163]

I have read all the posts above. I think the best bet for you:

* She can come here on VWP visa which gives you 3 months. (You can easily get to know somebody in 3 months).

* If you decide to get married, you can get married later on her visit with another VWP Visa (after she goes back to Sweden).

You can take so many pictures & get engaged in US (preparing the foundation) etc.....

then apply AOS before her visa expires.

She does not have to leave the country, she can stay here with you but she can not go abroad

until she gets either AP or GC.

Believe me there is no law that says you can get married in the certain amount of time. That is your right you can get married to anyone you choose. You have to tell the story to IO during the interview, how you guys have met etc.....

* If you decide not to get married, you can stay as friends & she can go back to Sweden & look for another job. It is not a biggie.

GOOD LUCK in either way !......

Btw, you do not need a lawyer to file AOS which is very easy. We can help you here. Don't waste your 5K unnecessarily...

I have struck-through the point which is a big no-no. If the OP and his SO decide to marry it must be done on the first visit. She cannot decide to marry then leave and come back and marry on a second visit. That is what a family-based visa is for.

[bantam 0]

Be wary of these people who have adjusted using a K-1, these people have no experience in what you're trying to do.

Edited April 29, 2009 by bantam