Another Saudi gangrape victim sentenced to flogging for adultery

[MsMariah 0]

To Clarify...

Charles, NO, I do not believe that any woman, man, child, or even animal deserves to be raped. Period.

But the fact here remains that she was indeed pregnant, and she was not married, and she lives in a society where this is deemed adultery and so punished. That's not my place to judge.

Now, if an american... decided to run down the street drunk and naked and then fell into an alley where they woke up and when the police arrested them for laying drunk and naked in the alley to subsequently be punished is a matter of law which would happen regardless of being raped. Now if you want to say that since this person was raped that was punishment enough for their behavior and that our society should accept that this person ran around naked and drunk and passed out in an alley, I'd have to beg your pardon, I don't want my family exposed to this behavior.

Now can we imagine if this woman wasn't raped, she would still be punished for being pregnant and not married. That's their law. No where is this the same as being punished for being raped. We can theorize that she is receiving all the punishment she could deserve just by being raped, but the only evidence of that (which we know of) is pregnancy which leads us to KNOW that at the very least she did find herself in the position of having extramarital sex.

Sorry if I sounded careless, and most apparently, I'm the deviant from this thread. However I do care, and I feel strongly that whatever the whole story may be, this woman is a survivor.

Be strong unmarried pregnant Saudi woman punished under the strict Saudi penal code! May Allah be with you.

[britty 1]

Yes it does suck totally but like others have said she knew the law, and shouldn't have accepted a ride (honestly who accepts rides from strangers anyway???). Also does anyone remember that American kid in Singapore like 10+ years ago who got caned for spitting gum on the sidewalk (just googled it and it was for vandalism)?? Pretty draconian IMO as well...

http://www.iht.com/articles/1994/03/04/sing_0.php

If the kid didnt know the laws then a parent or guardian should have made them clear. In the case of the Saudi woman, she accepted a ride from a man, and that is a complete no-no. When you break the law in Saudi, you are punished severely. Whilst most of us will be shocked at how a rape victim is treated, she would have been well aware of the consequences of being found with a strange man.

I'm sorry but the idea that accepting a ride could be a crime - well a Saudi woman knows better - but she wasn't tried for accepting the ride - she is being punished for adultery. Gang raped and she's punished. To justify a gang rape...like, yeah it's her fault and she deserved it...now that's totally messed up.

with all due respect, you need to read posts more carefully and fully understand what was posted, rather than assuming an intention or inference that isn't actually there. She was gang raped because she got into a car with a strange man. No one here is saying she deserved it or it is her fault. The law in Saudi is clearly laying blame at her door, and my post merely observed that Saudi law is one of the most severe and restrictive, and things we find repulsive and unjust, are viewed in a completely different light there. A woman accepting a ride from a man unknown to her or not a family member is not a crime here in the US, or in most countries for that matter, but IT IS IN SAUDI, whether we agree with it or not.

[~Jackie~ 30]

Stoning to death is the usual punishment for this.

This girl actually got OFF easy with prison and flogging. I am sure some were calling for her to die to save the family name from disgrace.

jJ

[britty 1]

Stoning to death is the usual punishment for this.

This girl actually got OFF easy with prison and flogging. I am sure some were calling for her to die to save the family name from disgrace.

jJ

a very valid point

[Saddle Bronc 124]

BTW, Mrs. Amera the American wasn't caned for "spitting gum on sidewalk" but for what might be called "unathorised painting" of cars--which IS an act of vandalism--and was videotaped doing so!

[SaadBell 0]

Damn, tough crowd The whole thing is wrong, backwards and disturbing. Lovely laws, I would not want to go to Saudi, I would be too damn nervous, they are harsh to women. I wish I could run the country, I would arm the women and leave the men unarmed, I bet that would change the playing field, and for 5 years at least, no women would get punished for accidentally shooting her husband or male relative. Because that is what it would be a little accident, mistook the husband for a intruder, and even if the man is found shot in his bed, all is forgiven. I am loving this theory.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

[luckytxn 2,265]

Damn, tough crowd The whole thing is wrong, backwards and disturbing. Lovely laws, I would not want to go to Saudi, I would be too damn nervous, they are harsh to women. I wish I could run the country, I would arm the women and leave the men unarmed, I bet that would change the playing field, and for 5 years at least, no women would get punished for accidentally shooting her husband or male relative. Because that is what it would be a little accident, mistook the husband for a intruder, and even if the man is found shot in his bed, all is forgiven. I am loving this theory.

Wow. Woman with guns is hot. Great pic.

As for the punishment over there. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime. What this lady did was a crime and a very severe one at that.

[caybee 21]

Damn, tough crowd The whole thing is wrong, backwards and disturbing. Lovely laws, I would not want to go to Saudi, I would be too damn nervous, they are harsh to women. I wish I could run the country, I would arm the women and leave the men unarmed, I bet that would change the playing field, and for 5 years at least, no women would get punished for accidentally shooting her husband or male relative. Because that is what it would be a little accident, mistook the husband for a intruder, and even if the man is found shot in his bed, all is forgiven. I am loving this theory.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I really do think there will be a big shift there within the next decade. There are already some small changes taking place. Saudi won't always have the economic muscle it's had for so long. The world is getting smaller, and eventually there will be enough pressure from women AND men inside the country that these archaic laws will fall apart. And I don't think the country will necessarily become more secular because of that. For now, though, the whole thing is deeply disturbing to me. I know it's the law of the land there, and everyone who lives there knows the laws and consequences. But almost within my own lifetime, in my own city, people could get arrested for drinking out of the "wrong" water fountain. It was the law of the land here too, but that didn't make it acceptable, and not many now would look back at civil rights activists who were beaten or murdered and say they knew the law, so they got what they got. I can't seen any difference here. A human being is a human being. But I don't think much change will come from outside pressure. The change will have to come from inside Saudi, and I think it will eventually.

[JODO 2]

I think the disturbing thing for me here is that this is not some bizarre anomaly, but that this has indeed happened before to women there and pretty much with the same result.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/17/saudi.rape.victim/

[caybee 21]

Damn, tough crowd The whole thing is wrong, backwards and disturbing. Lovely laws, I would not want to go to Saudi, I would be too damn nervous, they are harsh to women. I wish I could run the country, I would arm the women and leave the men unarmed, I bet that would change the playing field, and for 5 years at least, no women would get punished for accidentally shooting her husband or male relative. Because that is what it would be a little accident, mistook the husband for a intruder, and even if the man is found shot in his bed, all is forgiven. I am loving this theory.

Wow. Woman with guns is hot. Great pic.

As for the punishment over there. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime. What this lady did was a crime and a very severe one at that.

Okay, imagine being born into a country where you are not allowed to drive or have any real autonomy because of the chromosomes you were dealt. If you want to go somewhere, someone has to arrange it for you. You're an educated adult, a human being, not a child. One day, you need to go somewhere (shopping, to a doctor, to a pharmacy -- this woman could have been going anywhere). None of your "minders" are around to arrange for a driver for you, and you're in a hurry, so you decide to walk. Someone pulls up and offers you a ride. Maybe you recognize them as someone your family knows, and you're tired and in a hurry, and although you know it's against the law, you trust the person and get in (again, nothing in the article says she took a ride from a stranger, it says she accepted a ride from a MAN). You're then beaten and violated by four people who are stronger than you, and then you are arrested (for the violation, by the way) and subject to further beatings, imprisonment, or worse. But you did the crime, so you should do the time, right?

I KNOW it's the law there and that she broke it by getting in his car. I know I can't see with the eyes of someone who was raised in Saudi. I know the cultures are completely different and that family honor is uber important there. But I believe in my core that discrimination based on physical factors we have no control over is wrong in every instance, in every country, and it's just too simplistic to say she broke the law so she got what she got.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Damn, tough crowd The whole thing is wrong, backwards and disturbing. Lovely laws, I would not want to go to Saudi, I would be too damn nervous, they are harsh to women. I wish I could run the country, I would arm the women and leave the men unarmed, I bet that would change the playing field, and for 5 years at least, no women would get punished for accidentally shooting her husband or male relative. Because that is what it would be a little accident, mistook the husband for a intruder, and even if the man is found shot in his bed, all is forgiven. I am loving this theory.

Wow. Woman with guns is hot. Great pic.

As for the punishment over there. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime. What this lady did was a crime and a very severe one at that.

Okay, imagine being born into a country where you are not allowed to drive or have any real autonomy because of the chromosomes you were dealt. If you want to go somewhere, someone has to arrange it for you. You're an educated adult, a human being, not a child. One day, you need to go somewhere (shopping, to a doctor, to a pharmacy -- this woman could have been going anywhere). None of your "minders" are around to arrange for a driver for you, and you're in a hurry, so you decide to walk. Someone pulls up and offers you a ride. Maybe you recognize them as someone your family knows, and you're tired and in a hurry, and although you know it's against the law, you trust the person and get in (again, nothing in the article says she took a ride from a stranger, it says she accepted a ride from a MAN). You're then beaten and violated by four people who are stronger than you, and then you are arrested (for the violation, by the way) and subject to further beatings, imprisonment, or worse. But you did the crime, so you should do the time, right?

I KNOW it's the law there and that she broke it by getting in his car. I know I can't see with the eyes of someone who was raised in Saudi. I know the cultures are completely different and that family honor is uber important there. But I believe in my core that discrimination based on physical factors we have no control over is wrong in every instance, in every country, and it's just too simplistic to say she broke the law so she got what she got.

Yes I say if one does a crime and gets caught then they should expect to be punished. Whether I think it is right or not is immaterial. Based on how I was raised and our views here means nothing. This is a very serious crime there to do what she did and as someone said before she is lucky to not get the ultimate punishment. She knew she broke a serious law as she did not report it until she had to way later.

[panamania79 2]

Stoning to death is the usual punishment for this.

This girl actually got OFF easy with prison and flogging. I am sure some were calling for her to die to save the family name from disgrace.

jJ

I just think it's pretty sad that this still goes on.

[Nothing1234 2]

Mariah..I was actually joking with Charles about his post from the first part of the thread where he said something about getting back in the kitchen.

Besides, I think the kitchen is for men. They need to stay in there, of course they can leave to wash and fold laundry too!

Wow! .... so my english is hard to understand even for native speakers?

definition deviant per answers.com

adj.

Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

n.

One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

Nawal, since you're an american woman, not being in the kitchen is quite the norm....

And to the rest who take heart on this woman who "naively" took a ride from a stranger, and innocently found herself IN his apartment.... I guess you are imagining yourselves being raped and then punished and this incenses your own little 'justice'o'meters'. I wish that your meters would become so incensed at the injustice that is taking place here in a society you do understand. (also I'm so impressed that everyone feels that they can judge a whole different countries systems from the outside with the knowledge gleaned from a few dramatic articles they might get their hands on, or just impressed that of course YOU must know best for every person all over the world, I bet you voted for Bush too, ha!)

I'll definitely keep in mind that if my Aunt's, Cousin, or Mother ever need a ride, I will willingly pick them up no matter the time or place, or trust that they definitely have another FRIEND or RELATIVE who they can contact to do so if needed. Now if this raped woman was american I could be more empathetic, especially as statistically the one who raped her would be her boyfriend, husband or aquaintance, that's rather difficult to avoid afterall.

And for the rest of you, who are wishing a viscious gang rape upon me, well not only do I NOT take rides from strange men or enter their apartments. I also don't drink, don't hang out in bars or in dark alley's, I tend to have a brother or family with me, and I also tend to steer clear of men in general. So if you are 'naively' taking rides from strangers and otherwise, then I'm sure the fiendish rapists will be well occupied elsewhere and I'm feeling rather safe, thank you very much.

Now would anyone like some chocolate, I just got home from the american kitchen... walmart, and I'm still willing to share with this whole lovely gaggle of social justice message board crusaders.

Cheers!

[desert_fox 32]

Adultery- sex with someone with whom you are NOT married.

I live in a place where it's legal to take a ride from a stranger of the opposite sex and I STILL wouldn't dare to do it, so what does that tell us about this woman who was raised in this super ultra conservative culture? Quite a careless rebel? Sure no one deserves to be raped, but she must be deviant. I'm sure she'll survive.

deviant thinking...