green card marriages, ladies beware

[Sofiyya 1,687]

This group is not tight knit. Its just like an A A meeting. You might not see yourself in any of the posts or situations yet, but keep coming back. I was SURE no one knew what they were talking about ...post arrival etc. They do. Keep coming back and posting and reading. Your fiancee is not here yet. You have not adjusted status.. There is alot more coming honey and some may be good and somethings bad and somethings in between... There is tons you can learn from the boards so keep reading and remember the real adventure begins when they get here...not while you are kissing and vacactioning over there. The real life starts when they come here, adjust , get their greencard etc.

You will benefit alot from the boards.. Hang in there

You took most of the words right out of my mouth... I see the AA Mtg. comparison all over the place... and as they say, Take what you like and leave the rest... Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.. God grant us ALL Serenity....

I guess it's hard for me to see red flags all over the place and know that I'm going to be considered negative or pessimistic (or mean) because I'm one who is willing to acknowledge their existence. It's much easier to pretend that I can't see them, but feels really swarmy if I did.

I've said 20 times since going on this "Visa Journey" that the process of getting the Visa is like being pregnant (has different stages, seems like it lasts forever, extremely uncomfortable, filled with horror stories of other's experiences, no two alike, and makes you want to eat alot and sleep alot and you never know exactly when it will end)... but when they get here, it's like having a new dependent to care for and guide and comfort and you have to change your way of doing things and sometimes you lose friends over it, and it can get even more expensive as the years go by... The next 18-21 years can make the first 9 months seem like a walk in the park... (should it last that long)...

Something I can never figure out is why American women think that relationships that aren't considered "average" or at least "likely to succeed" by American cultural standards, (mixed race, mixed culture, mixed religion, step-families, women significantly older than the men, or to a lesser degree, in the USA, women beyond child bearing age with men who have no children) and are considered, extremely improbable, laughable, or outright ridiculous by MENA standards, shouldn't be questioned by friends and family members of BOTH cultures...

Maybe they just don't know how they are perceived by MENA standards... I'm sure their SO isn't going to tell them, except to elicit sympathy from them (I loved you against all odds...)

Regardless of my suspicions I'll be the first one to cheer when a couple "beats the odds", "does it THEIR Way" and overcomes their differences and live happily ever after. I HONESTLY believe that there are VERY VERY FEW people (women on MENA in particular) who want to see ANYONE's marriage fail.

I think that as long as two adults are equally informed and aware of the risks of the choices they make, then MORE POWER TO THEM... It's the kids and step-kids I feel so badly for.. and for the USC women (typically) who take much bigger risks (proportinately) and have fewer chances to recoup their losses, or start over again if a break-up occurs. (Remember that affadavit of support doesn't end if there is a divorce, it's citizenship for him, 10 years, or him leaving the USA forever to get you off the hook...)

I remember my Wali in Egypt reminding me over and over that (Egyptian) men don't value marriage that comes to them without putting forth great effort and sacrifice on their part. That I needed to make sure that my husband did both. This was difficult for me to do, being from an "equal partnership" culture. But I took his advice to heart and let my husband make those sacrifices and I'd highly recommend it to anyone involved in a MENA relationship, particularly with Egyptians. (don't know much about other NA cultures..)

Just my 2 piasters...

I, too, even as I am wary, cheer everyone on. Good people with the best intentions deserve a chance at happiness. No decent person can anyone deny them support and well wishes for that.

[rebeccajo 14]

This group is not tight knit. Its just like an A A meeting. You might not see yourself in any of the posts or situations yet, but keep coming back. I was SURE no one knew what they were talking about ...post arrival etc. They do. Keep coming back and posting and reading. Your fiancee is not here yet. You have not adjusted status.. There is alot more coming honey and some may be good and somethings bad and somethings in between... There is tons you can learn from the boards so keep reading and remember the real adventure begins when they get here...not while you are kissing and vacactioning over there. The real life starts when they come here, adjust , get their greencard etc.

You will benefit alot from the boards.. Hang in there

You took most of the words right out of my mouth... I see the AA Mtg. comparison all over the place... and as they say, Take what you like and leave the rest... Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.. God grant us ALL Serenity....

I guess it's hard for me to see red flags all over the place and know that I'm going to be considered negative or pessimistic (or mean) because I'm one who is willing to acknowledge their existence. It's much easier to pretend that I can't see them, but feels really swarmy if I did.

I've said 20 times since going on this "Visa Journey" that the process of getting the Visa is like being pregnant (has different stages, seems like it lasts forever, extremely uncomfortable, filled with horror stories of other's experiences, no two alike, and makes you want to eat alot and sleep alot and you never know exactly when it will end)... but when they get here, it's like having a new dependent to care for and guide and comfort and you have to change your way of doing things and sometimes you lose friends over it, and it can get even more expensive as the years go by... The next 18-21 years can make the first 9 months seem like a walk in the park... (should it last that long)...

Something I can never figure out is why American women think that relationships that aren't considered "average" or at least "likely to succeed" by American cultural standards, (mixed race, mixed culture, mixed religion, step-families, women significantly older than the men, or to a lesser degree, in the USA, women beyond child bearing age with men who have no children) and are considered, extremely improbable, laughable, or outright ridiculous by MENA standards, shouldn't be questioned by friends and family members of BOTH cultures...

Maybe they just don't know how they are perceived by MENA standards... I'm sure their SO isn't going to tell them, except to elicit sympathy from them (I loved you against all odds...)

Regardless of my suspicions I'll be the first one to cheer when a couple "beats the odds", "does it THEIR Way" and overcomes their differences and live happily ever after. I HONESTLY believe that there are VERY VERY FEW people (women on MENA in particular) who want to see ANYONE's marriage fail.

I think that as long as two adults are equally informed and aware of the risks of the choices they make, then MORE POWER TO THEM... It's the kids and step-kids I feel so badly for.. and for the USC women (typically) who take much bigger risks (proportinately) and have fewer chances to recoup their losses, or start over again if a break-up occurs. (Remember that affadavit of support doesn't end if there is a divorce, it's citizenship for him, 10 years, or him leaving the USA forever to get you off the hook...)

I remember my Wali in Egypt reminding me over and over that (Egyptian) men don't value marriage that comes to them without putting forth great effort and sacrifice on their part. That I needed to make sure that my husband did both. This was difficult for me to do, being from an "equal partnership" culture. But I took his advice to heart and let my husband make those sacrifices and I'd highly recommend it to anyone involved in a MENA relationship, particularly with Egyptians. (don't know much about other NA cultures..)

Just my 2 piasters...

Very cool post.

Even though a lot of the references in the post are MENA specific, the wisdom is appropriate to all members of VJ.

[MsMariah 0]

Scary Deep Heavy Thread

Peace (and now I need to talk to poor hubby to get a little...)

Mariah

[Lost pilgrim 0]

Hello Ladies,

I want to talk to you about something serious... Internet dating. I have made many friends from on here...MANY! Out of all these marriages from the middle eastern marriages I know of ONE that is real. Where the man did not marry for the green card. I know I know I said, oh my husband didnt do that!!! But trust me , he did.

Please think twice before marriage.

I am filing for bankruptcy, I am losing my house, I almost lost my children... God think twice!!!!!

I pray that any of you who even question ONCE that he may be marrying for the wrong reasons... think about it. Marriages where they marry an older woman is a HUGE red flag. Sorry ladies, but it is true.

Good luck

As everyone knows, my time with my husband has been stressful. It has even come to the point of contemplating divorce (my thinking). Due to the fact my husband and I have been married for more than two years, his green card is not conditional. So even if we divorce, he can stay. If my husband was after a greencard, it would be his chance to fly. I even told him so. But he refuses to divorce (believes in marriage for life and told my mom so when she met him before we got married).

So, not all men are out there for a greencard.

Lost Pilgrim (formerly Nutty)

Edited January 8, 2009 by Lost pilgrim

[Sandrila 1]

Bug - as you know, we are all different. You chose your husband because of his submissive qualities which coincide with your more dominant qualities. And as you've seen, these qualities are not necessarily ethnically specific. Some of us may be opposite. I love my husband for his dominant qualities, because (usually :-P) I have more submissive qualities in a relationship. His ability to take charge of a situation and take care of me. The way he wants to spoil me and treat me as his princess. I love all of these things about my man. (Plus his beautiful dark looks don't hurt either) I think this has more to do with his culture than with religion. He is not religious at all despite being raised Muslim. I am a Christian. Even in the Christian faith, the husband is supposed to be over the wife. The husband is supposed to love the wife as his own body. Etc. However, in the U.S. women don't like to accept that. ;-) Many American Christian women will assert that their relationships are equal and their husbands are not in charge. So, like I said, I think it's more cultural. Even within different Muslim countries, you will find different culture and way of doing things. Some MENA men like the western culture/ways better, just as some American women might respect the MENA ways/culture. So, just as we say not all MENA men are alike, not all American women are alike. Not all of us are staunch feminists who insist that we must dominate over the man instead of vice versa so that we feel empowered.

However, don't get me wrong. I am all for equal rights in the work place as well as in the law. I was in the Navy, where at the time women were still more of a curiosity and not as common as you see now. I'm a tough, independent little cookie. ;-) And if any man were abusive, I don't care what country he was from, he would definitely wish he did not exist by the time I got finished with him.

I will share with all of you that I work for the police department and I can tell you that around 8PM every night, the calls start rolling in about men beating up on their wives. It happens every night, 7 days a week. Think about it. Every day there are American women being abused by their American husbands. EVERY DAY. And I'm sure it is even more than what I see at work, because many women will not call the police. They suffer in silence. It's easy to think from where you sit that this is not going on in the numbers it is actually happening, because you don't see it. If it's not in the newspaper or it doesn't happen to a neighbor or someone you know, you don't know it exists. So I'm telling you, it exists in greater numbers than you may think in AMERICA. I think it's just more politicized in the media when it involves the Middle East, because Americans like to read about the "evil countries" and their "evil ways". :-P I hate the media.

But I LOVE my MENA husband. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

~Pandora

what a big price to pay for happiness

[childress_london 3]

Bug - as you know, we are all different. You chose your husband because of his submissive qualities which coincide with your more dominant qualities. And as you've seen, these qualities are not necessarily ethnically specific. Some of us may be opposite. I love my husband for his dominant qualities, because (usually :-P) I have more submissive qualities in a relationship. His ability to take charge of a situation and take care of me. The way he wants to spoil me and treat me as his princess. I love all of these things about my man. (Plus his beautiful dark looks don't hurt either) I think this has more to do with his culture than with religion. He is not religious at all despite being raised Muslim. I am a Christian. Even in the Christian faith, the husband is supposed to be over the wife. The husband is supposed to love the wife as his own body. Etc. However, in the U.S. women don't like to accept that. ;-) Many American Christian women will assert that their relationships are equal and their husbands are not in charge. So, like I said, I think it's more cultural. Even within different Muslim countries, you will find different culture and way of doing things. Some MENA men like the western culture/ways better, just as some American women might respect the MENA ways/culture. So, just as we say not all MENA men are alike, not all American women are alike. Not all of us are staunch feminists who insist that we must dominate over the man instead of vice versa so that we feel empowered.

However, don't get me wrong. I am all for equal rights in the work place as well as in the law. I was in the Navy, where at the time women were still more of a curiosity and not as common as you see now. I'm a tough, independent little cookie. ;-) And if any man were abusive, I don't care what country he was from, he would definitely wish he did not exist by the time I got finished with him.

I will share with all of you that I work for the police department and I can tell you that around 8PM every night, the calls start rolling in about men beating up on their wives. It happens every night, 7 days a week. Think about it. Every day there are American women being abused by their American husbands. EVERY DAY. And I'm sure it is even more than what I see at work, because many women will not call the police. They suffer in silence. It's easy to think from where you sit that this is not going on in the numbers it is actually happening, because you don't see it. If it's not in the newspaper or it doesn't happen to a neighbor or someone you know, you don't know it exists. So I'm telling you, it exists in greater numbers than you may think in AMERICA. I think it's just more politicized in the media when it involves the Middle East, because Americans like to read about the "evil countries" and their "evil ways". :-P I hate the media.

But I LOVE my MENA husband. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

~Pandora

what a big price to pay for happiness

Somehow, I don't think they are happy. Maybe more like trapped.

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Hello Ladies,

I want to talk to you about something serious... Internet dating. I have made many friends from on here...MANY! Out of all these marriages from the middle eastern marriages I know of ONE that is real. Where the man did not marry for the green card. I know I know I said, oh my husband didnt do that!!! But trust me , he did.

Please think twice before marriage.

I am filing for bankruptcy, I am losing my house, I almost lost my children... God think twice!!!!!

I pray that any of you who even question ONCE that he may be marrying for the wrong reasons... think about it. Marriages where they marry an older woman is a HUGE red flag. Sorry ladies, but it is true.

Good luck

As everyone knows, my time with my husband has been stressful. It has even come to the point of contemplating divorce (my thinking). Due to the fact my husband and I have been married for more than two years, his green card is not conditional. So even if we divorce, he can stay. If my husband was after a greencard, it would be his chance to fly. I even told him so. But he refuses to divorce (believes in marriage for life and told my mom so when she met him before we got married).

So, not all men are out there for a greencard.

Lost Pilgrim (formerly Nutty)

Thank you for sharing that Nutty.

Lisa

[chri'stina 190]

I am maybe late to say a comment, but I am so sorry Heartland! I recognize your avatar from posts over time(tho you might not remember my ID) and it's always sad to hear this kind of news. Best wishes for the future.

[irahaymeh 0]

Hi Wendy,

I am so sorry this happened to you. I pray that God will restore everything that you have lost and that you will find peace and happiness despite what has happened to you. Put your faith in God and He will see you through.

Love and Blessings,

Irene

[ErikaAndHamit 73]

I am quoting someone a few pages back because my quoter here on VJ never seems to work........

QUOTE: "As for myself, I didn't choose a middle eastern man. I was minding my own business on an online game and we met. I wasn't in a chat room, skype, myspace, marriage site, etc looking for ANY man, it just happened. I won't become Muslims, as I wasn't when he met me and we discussed this and we accept each other for who we were when we met.

I read these stories and don't see any red flags as of yet, but that doesn't mean I won't get used. I would like to think i'm smart enough to catch something out of the ordinary. I think in my case only, I must read and be careful to not let what I read, ruin what might be the best thing ever in my life. At the same time, I need to keep a guard up as I would with any man in my life. As women, it doesn't hurt us to have a radar going when dealing with any male, no matter where he comes from.

With all these stories i've been reading, I wonder how the couples met.. was it in chat rooms, skype, dating sites, myspace, facebook, online games. I can tell you this, I don't know at the times someone would just call me on skype, that I didn't even know. Mohammed told me, never to answer them, as all know if a guy you don't know suddenly skypes you.. then he's up to no good. be that visa or cc fraud. lol"

Now for MY two sense:

I wasn't looking either and my SO stats so as well...he only wanted to "learn English" Go ahead ...laugh, but at least give me a damned good reason why you are laughing if so.

I have felt he was genuine early on and only more so now. He is truly a nice person with a great heart, but of course anything can happen. But why would HE want to have children so badly? Why would his family be against this initially (after several months they all approve) and he keep speaking to me? Why would he keep reiterating there are no woman like me in his city as they are all only gold-diggers and Allah sent me to him? Why would he and his family go out of their way to meet me (we met in a major city and not in his remote little city)? I am not in denial as I am always looking for ideas and/or clues that I can grill him about as I am a suspicious person by nature, but I only feel stupid afterward I give him the first degree caused by people saying similar things to me in real life who don't know anything about us (kinda like this thread on VJ meant for people like me and him) and end up angry at him when he hasn't done anything. Why do I see genuine love in his eyes and in all of his actions. He would do anything for me. Why did he try to hide he was bawling in the BR the night before (god, I hope he doesn't read this) I had to fly back to the US and he walks out like nothing happened? Why would the hotel owners tell me I have nothing to worry about because he is one truly sweet guy? I mean seriously I have so much positive instinctual feelings to go on and the only thing that causes me stress is the S**T I read here or what people tell me without knowing anything beforehand.

IF you truly want to warn us here, then please tell us the whole story...how you met, your feelings...any warning signs you didn't see...etc or you won't help anyone at all...you will only create stress and conflict.

FYI

The only thing that I and others like myself (i.e the ones this thread was started for) is to become even more confused. In my heart, I feel waht we have is real. Is there something I don't know about some kind of clever scam? I will never know. If you want to help us as you truly state and not confuse us more, then PLEASE tell your damned story first in DETAILS.

[~Jackie~ 30]

.

Edited January 18, 2009 by just_Jackie

[RAKASA 0]

.

exactly

[~Jackie~ 30]

hi noura!

[RAKASA 0]

hi jax!

too bad Wendy hasn't come back to post since the initial "poop in the fan" post.

[~Jackie~ 30]

Wendy if you read this, know I hope you are ok.

Jackie