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Ric Altman

K1 denied-where to from here?

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My fiancee was denied a visa three weeks ago at Guangzhou. The interviewer only seemed to take issue with two things:

1. My fiancee and I met online a few weeks before my divorce was final, although my ex had moved out a year and one half prior.

2. My fiancee and I met face to face only 3 months after meeting online.

The interviewer said "Unreasonable, too quick."

Both of those, to me, are ridiculous reasons to deny, but that is what happened. We had daily chat records for a year, evidence of my being with her twice for a total of five weeks, photos, receipts, etc. The interviewer actually said that the paperwork was fine.

Anyway, my question is this, "What do we do now?" The appeal process is rumored to take a year or more and there is no guarantee they will reverse the denial. I am mulling over going back to China and marrying her there and then applying for a K3, but is that any surer of getting approved? Any quicker than the original K1 application or still approximately 9 months start to finish?

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no, nothing guarantee approval, if u had a year evidence i find that strange reason also, was the case returned yet? if not get with state rep and try to get it stopped now and reviewd not sent back

eithre way will take some time, ours was returned and we married in nov and here it is year later still waiting

as soon as the case comes back u can refile..i know one did this and now has the visa (K1)

california allows returns to expire, vermont just sits on them for sometimes two years


TIMELINE

04/04/2007 K1 Interview from H...w/the devil herself

06/12/2007 Rec'd Notification Case Now Back In Calif. only to expire

-------------

11/20/2007 Married in Morocco

02/23/2008 Mailed CR1 application today

03/08/2008 NOA1 Notice Recd (notice date 3/4/08)

08/26/2008 File transfered fr Vermont to Calif

10/14/2008 APPROVALLLLLLLLLLLL

10/20/2008 Recd hard copy NOA2

10/20/2008 NVC Recd case

11/21/2008 CASE COMPLETE

01/15/2009 INTERVIEW

01/16/2009 VISA IN HAND

01/31/2009 ARRIVED OKC

BE WHO YOU ARE AND SAY WHAT YOU FEEL, BECAUSE THOSE WHO MIND DONT MATTER AND THOSE WHO MATTER DONT MIND

YOU CANT CHANGE THE PAST BUT YOU CAN RUIN THE PRESENT BY WORRYING OVER THE FUTURE

TRIP.... OVER LOVE, AND YOU CAN GET UP

FALL.... IN LOVE, AND YOU FALL FOREVER

I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT, JUST NOT THE ABILITY

LIKE THE MEASLES, LOVE IS MOST DANGEROUS WHEN IT COMES LATER IN LIFE

LIFE IS NOT THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE, ITS THE WAY IT IS

I MAY NOT BE WHERE I WANT TO BE BUT IM SURE NOT WHERE I WAS

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no, nothing guarantee approval, if u had a year evidence i find that strange reason also, was the case returned yet? if not get with state rep and try to get it stopped now and reviewd not sent back

eithre way will take some time, ours was returned and we married in nov and here it is year later still waiting

as soon as the case comes back u can refile..i know one did this and now has the visa (K1)

california allows returns to expire, vermont just sits on them for sometimes two years

I tried to get it stopped, but my senators and representative could get nowhere. The file is on it's way back. I did have a years+ of everyday chat records printed and bound for them.

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Read this article. You might even want to contact the author, Marc Ellis. He occasionally has been known to post here, and he's an immigration attorney who specializes in asian countries, and is very familiar with the issues involved in denials and appeals.

If you just abandon the K-1, marry, and go for the K-3, you run the risk outlined in the article, that you could have a finding of misrepresentation on your record. It may be better to force the issue with the K-1.


04 Apr, 2004: Got married

05 Apr, 2004: I-130 Sent to CSC

13 Apr, 2004: I-130 NOA 1

19 Apr, 2004: I-129F Sent to MSC

29 Apr, 2004: I-129F NOA 1

13 Aug, 2004: I-130 Approved by CSC

28 Dec, 2004: I-130 Case Complete at NVC

18 Jan, 2005: Got the visa approved in Caracas

22 Jan, 2005: Flew home together! CCS->MIA->SFO

25 May, 2005: I-129F finally approved! We won't pursue it.

8 June, 2006: Our baby girl is born!

24 Oct, 2006: Window for filing I-751 opens

25 Oct, 2006: I-751 mailed to CSC

18 Nov, 2006: I-751 NOA1 received from CSC

30 Nov, 2006: I-751 Biometrics taken

05 Apr, 2007: I-751 approved, card production ordered

23 Jan, 2008: N-400 sent to CSC via certified mail

19 Feb, 2008: N-400 Biometrics taken

27 Mar, 2008: Naturalization interview notice received (NOA2 for N-400)

30 May, 2008: Naturalization interview, passed the test!

17 June, 2008: Naturalization oath notice mailed

15 July, 2008: Naturalization oath ceremony!

16 July, 2008: Registered to vote and applied for US passport

26 July, 2008: US Passport arrived.

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well as i said, one couple i knew refiled the k1 matter of fact the old case arrived back almost the same time the new filing arrived..... and they now have visa or marry get more evidences and file cr1..either way its still a wait little longer...i wouldnt hold my breath on a review..i know of two cases going on two years just waiting on anything from a review (both out of vermont)

i see the ref to marc ellis (he was the one told above couple to do the immediate refil)

Edited by brnidokiegurl

TIMELINE

04/04/2007 K1 Interview from H...w/the devil herself

06/12/2007 Rec'd Notification Case Now Back In Calif. only to expire

-------------

11/20/2007 Married in Morocco

02/23/2008 Mailed CR1 application today

03/08/2008 NOA1 Notice Recd (notice date 3/4/08)

08/26/2008 File transfered fr Vermont to Calif

10/14/2008 APPROVALLLLLLLLLLLL

10/20/2008 Recd hard copy NOA2

10/20/2008 NVC Recd case

11/21/2008 CASE COMPLETE

01/15/2009 INTERVIEW

01/16/2009 VISA IN HAND

01/31/2009 ARRIVED OKC

BE WHO YOU ARE AND SAY WHAT YOU FEEL, BECAUSE THOSE WHO MIND DONT MATTER AND THOSE WHO MATTER DONT MIND

YOU CANT CHANGE THE PAST BUT YOU CAN RUIN THE PRESENT BY WORRYING OVER THE FUTURE

TRIP.... OVER LOVE, AND YOU CAN GET UP

FALL.... IN LOVE, AND YOU FALL FOREVER

I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT, JUST NOT THE ABILITY

LIKE THE MEASLES, LOVE IS MOST DANGEROUS WHEN IT COMES LATER IN LIFE

LIFE IS NOT THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE, ITS THE WAY IT IS

I MAY NOT BE WHERE I WANT TO BE BUT IM SURE NOT WHERE I WAS

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My fiancee was denied a visa three weeks ago at Guangzhou. The interviewer only seemed to take issue with two things:

1. My fiancee and I met online a few weeks before my divorce was final, although my ex had moved out a year and one half prior.

2. My fiancee and I met face to face only 3 months after meeting online.

The interviewer said "Unreasonable, too quick."

Both of those, to me, are ridiculous reasons to deny, but that is what happened. We had daily chat records for a year, evidence of my being with her twice for a total of five weeks, photos, receipts, etc. The interviewer actually said that the paperwork was fine.

Anyway, my question is this, "What do we do now?" The appeal process is rumored to take a year or more and there is no guarantee they will reverse the denial. I am mulling over going back to China and marrying her there and then applying for a K3, but is that any surer of getting approved? Any quicker than the original K1 application or still approximately 9 months start to finish?

I take it this was a white slip indicating GUZ intended to return your case file to the service center with the recommendation to deny/revoke due to not having a bona fide relationship. (There will have been more to the decision than your simplified conclusion though.)

If so, your only viable course of action was to hire an attorney in Guangzhou accustomed to dealing with the Consulate there. Now that three weeks has passed, there may be little you can do at this point. The Mark Ellis article may be of some assistance.

If you haven't already, do the best you can to reconstruct the interview verbatim.

Edited by pushbrk

Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/606646-a-warning-to-green-card-holders-about-voting/

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I take it this was a white slip indicating GUZ intended to return your case file to the service center with the recommendation to deny/revoke due to not having a bona fide relationship. (There will have been more to the decision than your simplified conclusion though.)

If so, your only viable course of action was to hire an attorney in Guangzhou accustomed to dealing with the Consulate there. Now that three weeks has passed, there may be little you can do at this point. The Mark Ellis article may be of some assistance.

If you haven't already, do the best you can to reconstruct the interview verbatim.

Yes, white slip. We did reconstruct the interview:

ric Altman: You must try to tell me in good English what the woman said to you.

ah lai: Question 1,who helped you to apply for the K1 visa? My fiance

ah lai: 2,do You have children? yes

ah lai: 3How many ? only one

ah lai: 4does Your fiance have children? no

ric Altman: Take your time, think. No hurry.

ah lai: 5 how do you know each other? internet

ah lai: 6 Do you speak English? I speak English not well, but we can communicate

ah lai: 7, would your fiance say Chinese? he can say a few words

ah lai: 8 How do you communicate ?Twice a day yahoo message,some times cellphone message,and telephone

ah lai: 9, How many times did he came to China? two

ah lai: 10,when? 2007.9.26 and 2008.4.27

ah lai: 9,where does his ex live?I did not understand the question, she asked three times,then I say "I don't know,RIC has told me but I forgot"

ric Altman: She lives in Florida, 2,000 miles away.

ric Altman: You should not worry about that question. It is not important.

ah lai: I also said that she did not live in RIC's home, she moved

ric Altman: Yes, in 2006

ah lai: 11, when was your engagement ? His second visit to China

ah lai: 12, do you have a VCD ? no,but I have photos

ah lai: I said, pointing to photos, these are my relatives

ah lai: Then she saw photos

ric Altman: We decided to get married in November, before I came to China the second time.

ah lai: The betrothal ceremony was when you came to china the second time

ric Altman: Yes

ah lai: She did not want your economic security information, I find it very strange. So I take the initiative to her

ah lai: She did not read carefully to see

ric Altman: That is strange. It sounds like she had already made up her mind.

ah lai: She also did not ask to see our travel evidence. I handed it to her on my own initiative

ah lai: She asked "Do you have Chatting records?"

ah lai: I said yes

ah lai: I gave her the three books of chat records

ah lai: She said not so many. I gave her one

ah lai: She read a long time

ah lai: She said "I want to listen to you read." Then I read

ah lai: Then, she said "It is unreasonable and very strange. Did you know at the time you met, he has not divorced yet?"

ric Altman: What did you say?

ah lai: Then, I worry, I began to explain, I said "divorce"

ric Altman: Relax, take your time, think

ah lai: She then said that he was divorced in August, you met in June.

ah lai: She said "In September he came to China! This issue very strange. Too fast, too short a time."

ah lai: My heart jumped.

ah lai: Then she said, "Why did they divorce?"

ah lai: I said "RIC told me that his ex-wife had a lover, they do not have feelings for a long time, they separated for a long time"

ah lai: I said, "He first came to China and liked me very much, I very much liked him, we chat twice every day, we talk on the telephone. We are truly in love." I am afraid.

ah lai: Then, she said: "I cannot give you visa at this time. If you have any questions, please ask at NO. 30 Window"

ric Altman: Did you go to 30th window?

ah lai: sure!

ric Altman: What was said at window #30?

ah lai: Then, I went to NO.30 asked, why?

ah lai: NO.30 said, "The visa officer feels you are not truthful."

ah lai: I said :"Why does she doubt me?"

ah lai: I asked "What is the reason?

ah lai: NO.30 said: "No comment. When the file is returned to the United States, the applicant will know the answer

ah lai: NO.30 said: "The return of the archives, I will be notified. This will take several months.

ah lai: Then I went back to NO.25, the black woman did not give me the opportunity to explain. I said: "I need your help, I was true." She said: "You have to leave."

ah lai: Lastly, I am very frustrated. I come to the first floor

ric Altman: You have no idea what she thought you might have been untruthful about?

ah lai: When the Visa officer said: "This unreasonable, very strange" I was worried.

ah lai: She seemed to think the timing of our meeting was suspicious

ric Altman: ok

ah lai: what your analysis?

ric Altman: The attorney said that the timing of our meeting is not a reason to deny.

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I take it this was a white slip indicating GUZ intended to return your case file to the service center with the recommendation to deny/revoke due to not having a bona fide relationship. (There will have been more to the decision than your simplified conclusion though.)

If so, your only viable course of action was to hire an attorney in Guangzhou accustomed to dealing with the Consulate there. Now that three weeks has passed, there may be little you can do at this point. The Mark Ellis article may be of some assistance.

If you haven't already, do the best you can to reconstruct the interview verbatim.

Yes, white slip. We did reconstruct the interview:

ric Altman: You must try to tell me in good English what the woman said to you.

ah lai: Question 1,who helped you to apply for the K1 visa? My fiance

ah lai: 2,do You have children? yes

ah lai: 3How many ? only one

ah lai: 4does Your fiance have children? no

ric Altman: Take your time, think. No hurry.

ah lai: 5 how do you know each other? internet

ah lai: 6 Do you speak English? I speak English not well, but we can communicate

ah lai: 7, would your fiance say Chinese? he can say a few words

ah lai: 8 How do you communicate ?Twice a day yahoo message,some times cellphone message,and telephone

ah lai: 9, How many times did he came to China? two

ah lai: 10,when? 2007.9.26 and 2008.4.27

ah lai: 9,where does his ex live?I did not understand the question, she asked three times,then I say "I don't know,RIC has told me but I forgot"

ric Altman: She lives in Florida, 2,000 miles away.

ric Altman: You should not worry about that question. It is not important.

ah lai: I also said that she did not live in RIC's home, she moved

ric Altman: Yes, in 2006

ah lai: 11, when was your engagement ? His second visit to China

ah lai: 12, do you have a VCD ? no,but I have photos

ah lai: I said, pointing to photos, these are my relatives

ah lai: Then she saw photos

ric Altman: We decided to get married in November, before I came to China the second time.

ah lai: The betrothal ceremony was when you came to china the second time

ric Altman: Yes

ah lai: She did not want your economic security information, I find it very strange. So I take the initiative to her

ah lai: She did not read carefully to see

ric Altman: That is strange. It sounds like she had already made up her mind.

ah lai: She also did not ask to see our travel evidence. I handed it to her on my own initiative

ah lai: She asked "Do you have Chatting records?"

ah lai: I said yes

ah lai: I gave her the three books of chat records

ah lai: She said not so many. I gave her one

ah lai: She read a long time

ah lai: She said "I want to listen to you read." Then I read

ah lai: Then, she said "It is unreasonable and very strange. Did you know at the time you met, he has not divorced yet?"

ric Altman: What did you say?

ah lai: Then, I worry, I began to explain, I said "divorce"

ric Altman: Relax, take your time, think

ah lai: She then said that he was divorced in August, you met in June.

ah lai: She said "In September he came to China! This issue very strange. Too fast, too short a time."

ah lai: My heart jumped.

ah lai: Then she said, "Why did they divorce?"

ah lai: I said "RIC told me that his ex-wife had a lover, they do not have feelings for a long time, they separated for a long time"

ah lai: I said, "He first came to China and liked me very much, I very much liked him, we chat twice every day, we talk on the telephone. We are truly in love." I am afraid.

ah lai: Then, she said: "I cannot give you visa at this time. If you have any questions, please ask at NO. 30 Window"

ric Altman: Did you go to 30th window?

ah lai: sure!

ric Altman: What was said at window #30?

ah lai: Then, I went to NO.30 asked, why?

ah lai: NO.30 said, "The visa officer feels you are not truthful."

ah lai: I said :"Why does she doubt me?"

ah lai: I asked "What is the reason?

ah lai: NO.30 said: "No comment. When the file is returned to the United States, the applicant will know the answer

ah lai: NO.30 said: "The return of the archives, I will be notified. This will take several months.

ah lai: Then I went back to NO.25, the black woman did not give me the opportunity to explain. I said: "I need your help, I was true." She said: "You have to leave."

ah lai: Lastly, I am very frustrated. I come to the first floor

ric Altman: You have no idea what she thought you might have been untruthful about?

ah lai: When the Visa officer said: "This unreasonable, very strange" I was worried.

ah lai: She seemed to think the timing of our meeting was suspicious

ric Altman: ok

ah lai: what your analysis?

ric Altman: The attorney said that the timing of our meeting is not a reason to deny.

Based on the above, I would think this is the kind of case that could be overcome by a local attorney in Guangzhou. Usually the cases sit around there for three months or more, so it probably isn't too late to get a lawyer involved.


Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/606646-a-warning-to-green-card-holders-about-voting/

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I would advice you to first talk to a good attorney, or have him ask u some questions (to both of you on a conference call) regarding what happened. An attorney is the best person to tell you what to do, whether, i) to go for an appeal or not (becos sometimes what happens is, an appeal gets dragged by 1 year to 2 yrs or more and becos of which you both will have to be apart for a long time. The decision to appeal should be taken with a lot of careful thinking, for which an attorney is a best person to guide!) or whether to ii) go to your fiancee's country, marry her, get a bonafide marriage certificate and then come back to the US and apply for a K-3.

That's what we did. We applied for a K-3. We couldnt go in for an appeal becos the consular officer had already made me sign an affidavit to withdraw the petition saying that there is no point if i appeal becos we have already conducted a technical error which will delay our appeal in the first place and there might not be fruitful results for it possibly at the end. So we had a conference call with an attorney in Vietnam and he told us that getting married and applying for K-3 is a best deal. And another thing, at the end if you decide to apply for a K-3, hire an attorney this time so that you don't face any problem with the visa process whatsoever.

Rinkie

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Ok i met my fiancee the first time when she wasn't divorced yet .

i met her the first time in Aug and she got divorced in Nov of 2006 and then i met her the second time in april of 2007 .

she was married to a guy from Egypt and I'm Egyptian to . do you think they will deny me to ?!!!! :help:

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Ok i met my fiancee the first time when she wasn't divorced yet .

i met her the first time in Aug and she got divorced in Nov of 2006 and then i met her the second time in april of 2007 .

she was married to a guy from Egypt and I'm Egyptian to . do you think they will deny me to ?!!!! :help:

Please start your own thread up on this. Maybe in the MENA section where they might know more about the Embassy in Egypt. No one is going to be responding to you hear about this, because it doesn't related to the original poster's question.

Post your question here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showforum=97


carlahmsb4.gif

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