Bar girl and K1

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I found this info from a law firm:

GENERAL GROUNDS FOR INADMISSIBILITY

Grounds for inadmissibility can be brought against undocumented individuals, non-citizens seeking re-entry, and non-citizens seeking a green card. Legal Permenant Residents attempting to apply for naturalization will likely have difficulty if they are found inadmissible because of criminal grounds. Criminal grounds include those that can be generally classified into the following categories:

1. A single crime deemed morally reprehensible.

2. Any controlled substance law violation.

3. Two or more convictions with combined prison sentences of five years or more.

4. Suspicion of being involved in the trafficking of illegal drugs.

5. Having engaged in an illegal occupation such as prostitution.

6. Habitual users of drugs

Other individuals may face grounds of inadmissibility if they are deemed mentally or physically incapacitated in a manner that makes them a potential threat to themselves or others.

In regards to prostitution, an alien is excludable under INA 212(a)(2)(D) if he or she:

(i) is coming to the United States solely, principally, or incidentally to engage in prostitution, or has engaged in prostitution within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, entry, or adjustment of status,

(ii) directly or indirectly procures or attempts to procure, or (within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, entry, or adjustment of status) procured or attempted to procure or to import, prostitutes or persons for the purpose of prostitution, or receives or (within such 10-year period) received, in whole or in part, the proceeds of prostitution, or

(iii) is coming to the United States to engage in any other unlawful commercialized vice whether or not related to prostitution, is excludable.

In practice, this means that if the applicant has a work history that includes employment at a hostess bar or other establishment that engages in prostitution it may be determined that the applicant was involved in prostitution and the decision to exclude or not exclude the applicant is at the discretion of the consular officer. Even if an applicant for a fiancé visa does not admit to prostitution it is possible for the consular officer to make that conclusion independently based on the applicant having indirectly received the proceeds from prostitution or simply because the consular officer suspects that was the case. Either way, the applicant could be rendered inadmissible.

Certainly, if the applicant admits to working in a "go go" or hostess bar they may be excluded based on association with prostitution. However, if the applicant withholds such information from the USCIS and then is nevertheless determined excluded by the consular officer because of suspicion of engagement in prostitution, then the applicant must overcome excludability from prostitution as well as falsifying a visa application.

The USCIS does not have an official policy that is available to the public concerning "bar girls" or women who have had employment in hostess or "go go" bars. Individuals and their situations are evaluated on a case by case basis by the consular officer handling their cases.

However, individuals engaged in prostitution may be eligible for waivers (I.N.A. Sec. 212h)

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/waiver.html

Edited July 26, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[TexPamp 0]

Since she quit her job that was helping support her family. Who's next in line to support her family now??

The same guy who she quit her job for. I have read many cases of this on other forums not worth mentioning on this good board.

On one of those forums I read a "friend of a friend" story where the guys wife left him with their child when the money ran out. This guy knew she worked in a district notorious for cheap thrills, in fact, that is how he met her. Now that he has been jilted he looks for information from people to prove his case that she lied on the VISA application to gain favor and custody of their child in the divorce.

Of course you only hear one side of the story on those forums. Many men think they will find a sexual athelete who can do dishes when they travel to foreign lands and recieve a hell of a surprise when they reach the USA. Serves them right for trying to use Filipinas in this way.

TexPamp

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Since she quit her job that was helping support her family. Who's next in line to support her family now??

The same guy who she quit her job for. I have read many cases of this on other forums not worth mentioning on this good board.

On one of those forums I read a "friend of a friend" story where the guys wife left him with their child when the money ran out. This guy knew she worked in a district notorious for cheap thrills, in fact, that is how he met her. Now that he has been jilted he looks for information from people to prove his case that she lied on the VISA application to gain favor and custody of their child in the divorce.

Of course you only hear one side of the story on those forums. Many men think they will find a sexual athelete who can do dishes when they travel to foreign lands and recieve a hell of a surprise when they reach the USA. Serves them right for trying to use Filipinas in this way.

TexPamp

Looking into this subject, I became impressed with what the USCIS has already established regarding what conditions would make someone ineligable. I think that sometimes we don't give credit to the amount of thought that has gone into our current immigration process. It's not perfect and there are plenty of areas that need improvement, but overall, it seems pretty well laid out in terms of weeding out potential marriage fraud.

[DanielParul 50]

Looking into this subject, I became impressed with what the USCIS has already established regarding what conditions would make someone ineligable. I think that sometimes we don't give credit to the amount of thought that has gone into our current immigration process. It's not perfect and there are plenty of areas that need improvement, but overall, it seems pretty well laid out in terms of weeding out potential marriage fraud.

[sitkan 0]

If You are in Love .... then you are in Love.

Always rember you can take the Girl out of the Bar... but you can't take the Bar out of the Girl.

Once she has a taste for that kind of life, you may find it is a long bumpy road that you both are on as a couple.

Then again, you might like that kind of life. So I don't judge.... I only state the obvious.

If the relationship does not work out and she is in the U.S.A. you will still be obligated to the I-864 that you signed to get her here.

Just because you are divorced you are not released from your obligations to the goverment that you made. I learned that the hard way.

[tzeksman 0]

i didnt read through all the post but i dont think MOST of the girls pettioned on a K-1 from the Philippines are former bargirls. It sometimes perplexes me how Americans can be so myopic and uninformed. My wife is an educated woman who before our first child was born worked as the Finance Officer for a nice sized company located in San Juan MM, but i still have friends and aquaintances that when they find out your wife is going through the process of getting a visa that she must be trying to "escape" a life of poverty and destitution, that she just cant wait to live in the USA. In some cases that might be the case but i tend to think thats the exception rather than the rule. And for those women and or men that do so I say more power to them as well. Insofar as marriage fraud Im not by any means saying it doesnt happen but in most cases in the Phils its my opinion that they are bona fide relationships, whereas I have met men in the US that have been paid 5000 plus by mexican women in order for them to get here legally. Im sure the same is true of men.

The problem is i think that some consular officers tend to have that same myopic view I mentioned as well and it jades there judgement at times. Have you ever noticed the plate glass windows they sit behind at the USEM i dont think they come out of those boxes very often. That being said im sure alot of them do a fine job. Anyways tell your nephew best of luck and I hope it all works out for him in the end.

Forgive me if this rant didnt make any sense I just completed a 15 hour workday and im running on fumes but had to vent for some reason....

[♥ Teena♥ Joe♥ 0]

Hi, we live here in Angeles and lots of bars and bar girls here as almost everybody knows in Phils. I knew a lot of foreigners who had their relationships with bar girls who were able to bring their fiance' and wives to US. As far as I know, if the pre-screener and consul ask them where they meet, they don't really tell the truth, they say that she worked as a waitress or any work but not a bar girl. Proof of relationship is important, a month or two of being together wont be enough. They should really know each other well.

Goodluck to your nephew.

[franklie 0]

I agree with what Jabberwocky has written and I thank him for his insightful posts.

In general the posts have given pause to my nephew's plans. As I advised him lying is never the best way to accomplish one's goals and invariably will come back to bite one in the a$$. I urged him to nothing rash.

I thank as well the others who have tried to provide a workable solution for my nephew and his Pinay girlfriend.

If he moves forward with the relationship he will have, without a doubt, a tough row to hoe. He will also have to convince his mom, my sister, that he wasn't thinking with the "other head".

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I agree with what Jabberwocky has written and I thank him for his insightful posts.

In general the posts have given pause to my nephew's plans. As I advised him lying is never the best way to accomplish one's goals and invariably will come back to bite one in the a$. I urged him to nothing rash.

I thank as well the others who have tried to provide a workable solution for my nephew and his Pinay girlfriend.

If he moves forward with the relationship he will have, without a doubt, a tough row to hoe. He will also have to convince his mom, my sister, that he wasn't thinking with the "other head".

Yep. How young is he? If he's never been married before, this isn't exactly the best circumstances to finding a life partner. The long distance and cultural differences are enough for a couple to deal with as it is. I hope he'll do the right thing and move on, now matter how much he may love this girl, he'll get over her and eventually realize that he did the right thing. Good luck in helping him figure that out.

[BJZags 17]

Yep. How young is he? If he's never been married before, this isn't exactly the best circumstances to finding a life partner. The long distance and cultural differences are enough for a couple to deal with as it is. I hope he'll do the right thing and move on, now matter how much he may love this girl, he'll get over her and eventually realize that he did the right thing. Good luck in helping him figure that out.

Not saying I disagree with your rational analysis, but I will say that it is real easy for you and I who have successfully navigated the immigration waters and are now in a loving relationship to tell someone else to "forget about her and move on." Based upon your research, and having gone through the process myself, if the paperwork appears in order, and the girl is "coached-up" (as we all did) for the 5-minute interview, I'd say press-on if it truly is a "love" thing and not a "lust" thing.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yep. How young is he? If he's never been married before, this isn't exactly the best circumstances to finding a life partner. The long distance and cultural differences are enough for a couple to deal with as it is. I hope he'll do the right thing and move on, now matter how much he may love this girl, he'll get over her and eventually realize that he did the right thing. Good luck in helping him figure that out.

Not saying I disagree with your rational analysis, but I will say that it is real easy for you and I who have successfully navigated the immigration waters and are now in a loving relationship to tell someone else to "forget about her and move on." Based upon your research, and having gone through the process myself, if the paperwork appears in order, and the girl is "coached-up" (as we all did) for the 5-minute interview, I'd say press-on if it truly is a "love" thing and not a "lust" thing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "coached-up", but my wife (then fiancee) went in to the interview with the attitude that she would be honest, sincere, and truthful.

For this couple, however, they would be withholding truthful information and when asked details about the line of work she did, they'd have to flat out lie.

Maybe some former prostitutes could make potentially good spouses, but at least in the eyes of USCIS, if she was engaged in prostitution within the last 10 years, she'd be denied. About the only thing I would recommend if he truly loves her is to consult an immigration attorney as to whether there's any chance for an appeal should they be denied.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Yep. How young is he? If he's never been married before, this isn't exactly the best circumstances to finding a life partner. The long distance and cultural differences are enough for a couple to deal with as it is. I hope he'll do the right thing and move on, now matter how much he may love this girl, he'll get over her and eventually realize that he did the right thing. Good luck in helping him figure that out.

Not saying I disagree with your rational analysis, but I will say that it is real easy for you and I who have successfully navigated the immigration waters and are now in a loving relationship to tell someone else to "forget about her and move on." Based upon your research, and having gone through the process myself, if the paperwork appears in order, and the girl is "coached-up" (as we all did) for the 5-minute interview, I'd say press-on if it truly is a "love" thing and not a "lust" thing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "coached-up", but my wife (then fiancee) went in to the interview with the attitude that she would be honest, sincere, and truthful.

For this couple, however, they would be withholding truthful information and when asked details about the line of work she did, they'd have to flat out lie.

Maybe some former prostitutes could make potentially good spouses, but at least in the eyes of USCIS, if she was engaged in prostitution within the last 10 years, she'd be denied. About the only thing I would recommend if he truly loves her is to consult an immigration attorney as to whether there's any chance for an appeal should they be denied.

Point well made. Coaching and lying are two different things.

[TheRover 0]

I'd say 4 months is a very short time to decide to marry someone. I'm almost certain they've never lived together either. I speak from experience because my fiance is a former bargirl I met while in Japan - the difference is that we've been together for 3 years and we lived together for 2 years so I *know* how it will be when we get married, since we basically already were. Make sure your nephew gets to know this woman inside and out before he marries her. I would try to steer him away from it for now. A very difficult situation for sure.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I'd say 4 months is a very short time to decide to marry someone. I'm almost certain they've never lived together either. I speak from experience because my fiance is a former bargirl I met while in Japan - the difference is that we've been together for 3 years and we lived together for 2 years so I *know* how it will be when we get married, since we basically already were. Make sure your nephew gets to know this woman inside and out before he marries her. I would try to steer him away from it for now. A very difficult situation for sure.

I lived in Japan for three years, and there is a huge difference between a Japanese bar hostess (or even a drinkee girl) and a prostitute. The OPs girl was, however briefly, a prostitute. In Japan, bar hostesses enjoy a well respected profession that does not necessarily involve any extracurricular contact with clients. A huge difference in the eyes of a CO.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

If you listen to some comedians and rap artist, they say that you can't turn a hoe into a housewife...