When your kids still don't like your new husband

[Peikko 1,575]

Fair enough, and good for him that he is now sober. However, Jaberwocky does have a point, children who have experienced life at the blunt end of alcoholism probably do have issues to deal with regarding manipulative behaviour - and from the sounds of it your eldest daughter has learned how to use manipulation and is using it to make you feel guilty about things that you shouldn't feel guilty over. It seems it is the daughter who is complaining on behalf of the son from what you have said so it's not even clear if the son does feel 'abandoned'. Even if he does though, creating a stable home is your responsibility and only with your new husband persuing this particular job is that possible so 'returning to how things were' is not possible.

However my fear is that without professional intervention, you will be unable to resolve these guilt feelings even though you probably do recognize at least some of the time, that feeling guilty is not a reasonable response to your present circumstances.

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

I have to ask, but you don't have to answer but is your oldest daugther playing 'mom' with the ex husband? You say is is an alchoholic so I am not quite sure how the two of the kids end up being with him - seems strange unless the oldest kid is allowing the household to 'function' by taking control of it.

Oh yes, I should have clarified. He started drinking during the 8th-9th year of our marriage heavily and did so for four years (that was hell). He became sober after going to AA meetings. Good question though.

You know Shari, "alcoholic" is a mind set that has little to do with whether or not one is consuming alcohol. So it might help to understand that it is HIGHLY unlikely that your husband became an alcoholic when you noted the onset of drinking. There is a very hallowed place for guilt and manipulation that involves guilt in alcoholic family systems. There is a reason that grown children of alcoholics are called "adult children" and I think you are experiencing that with your oldest. Understanding the alcoholic system, which your children never left although you may have, may help you to understand what is happening and deal with your children.

I agree that you should get professional help to learn about the system. Even if just for the teaching about alcoholic systems, so you know how to respond in the best way for all. A brief primer would be that adult children frequently try to shift responsibility for what they are feeling through the use of guilt. The person being guilted has to participate however so they can't do it everywhere. When she says something that is clearly designed to place responsibility on you for her feelings it is best to refuse to take the responsibility. When the shift of responsibility is attempted, the unmistakable sign that you are willing to play the game is defending your actions as if you are responsible. Sometimes training yourself to say "I'm sorry YOU feel that way" can help. If you have something to apologize for do it. Otherwise, how she feels about the way life has played out is her feeling and her choice.

I will tell you a great story that snapped me out of it. We can often feel like we want nothing but happiness for our kids and if they are unhappy we have some responsibility to change that. I have a wonderful son, now 24, but when he was 10 a friend said something that really devastated him and he cried for a long time. I sat with him and kept feeling I should change this. Finally I said to him "You know Bud, this is one of those times when a mom or dad just feels like they would do anything to stop this bad feeling for you." At that moment he stopped crying, wiped his eyes, and said, "But dad, I know you would never do that to me, because this is my pain. If you took away my pain, you'd be taking away my life. I know you love me too much to do that." After that momentary feeling of "oh ####### my 10 year old is wiser than I am", I started to cry and I realized he's right. Its his. He needs to work it out to whatever end it serves in his life. I shouldn't and I'm not responsible for doing that for him.

Your daughter has some pain too. Maybe its about the choices you've made and maybe it isn't. In fact, you may have made the absolutely best choice for her at every turn and she isn't far enough through the pain to see that yet. But its hers to figure out. Leave it for her to figure out. Don't let her avoid it by making you responsible. Encourage her. Offer to go to counseling with her (maybe you could go once a month or every other month). Tell her you have confidence that she'll resolve her pain and whatever she decides about you is fine. (even if you can't feel that yet) Tell her you will always love her and always respect her enough to not pretend that you are responsible for her life. Life is filled with ups and downs and difficult situations. We all ride those waves and she can too, without believing you are responsible.

It can be excrutiating to watch them suffer through it but there really aren't any good alternatives. Good luck. I hope your whole family can find happiness!

[Shari 6]

Your daughter has some pain too. Maybe its about the choices you've made and maybe it isn't. In fact, you may have made the absolutely best choice for her at every turn and she isn't far enough through the pain to see that yet. But its hers to figure out. Leave it for her to figure out. Don't let her avoid it by making you responsible. Encourage her. Offer to go to counseling with her (maybe you could go once a month or every other month).

As I stated earlier, my oldest daughter we are referring to lives over 10 hours/550 miles away. She is a part-time college student/full-time daycare teacher who has no medical insurance to even cover therapy if she wanted to, and she has mentioned through the years she would never go to counseling and would refuse to talk. Thanks for the reply though.

[Shari 6]

And let me add to all this regarding my ex-husband's drinking (I originally wasn't going to get into the long story), that he drank privately and was never physically abusive. He would work down in the garage on cars or misc. and hide bottles down there and try to cover the smell from me with mints/gum. It worked for a couple years and I was just naive as I had never been around an alcoholic before. I think he drank so much that he conditioned his body and he was never drunk, at least not at first. He would stop by a liquor store on the way home from work and buy his bottles. My twins were too young to know anything (around 3-4 when it started) and my oldest daughter (9-10 at the time) did eventually catch on and it was upsetting for her, as much as I tried to hide it. He missed her very first band recital as he was too drunk at work and missed softball games, etc. I know she harbors anger towards him. She and I went to Al-Anon for a couple months when she was around 13, during the same time he went to AA but then she and I stopped. When she was a teenager and got in trouble and he would yell at her, she would always bring up his drinking, really just to change the subject or to take the blame off her for the moment and put it on him. Yes, she is good at manipulating too!!! The two of them are like peas in a pod unfortunately, though I love her to death.

And my son has talked to me himself about my move and also is very angry. I feel he is more hurt than mad, and I feel really bad about that. Again, he was 15 when we moved and it is hard to be away from him, especially being younger than his older sister.

So in reading all these posts that tell me to tell her that Keith makes me happy, she has just come back and said "well, your kids aren't happy and you are putting a man that was a stranger that you have only known for four years before you own kids". Again, she is a great debater. She ALWAYS has an answer to my remarks. Sometimes I feel like the kid as she comes up with better/quicker responses than I do. UGH!

[morocco4ever 63]

Your kids have to understand that YOU have a right to be loved by a man of your choice... Ask them do they want MOM to be by herself and lonely once they get out and get on with their lives... Tell them you have enough love to share with them and your new husband. I know it's hard for you to be caught in the middle, but as long as your husband loves you and is good to you, your kids are just going to have to get over it.... Good Luck to you!

Kids do like to play the guilt trip don't they? The fact is that they are the ones ruining the family, not you, not your husband. You deserve happiness and their selfishness is wrong.

[brnidokiegurl 1]

Kids do have a way. Those with the dad are no doubt hearing his added comments on the subject. What they dont realize is they will also grow and marry someday and maybe move completely away from you, i doubt they consider if you completely approve of their choices in either the partner or the moving...they do what needs to be done in their own life...but for now they dont see it that way.

[mRx 16]

I'm gonna take a different stance on this.

It doesn't seem like you had any regard to what your kids felt towards you being with another man. Especially so soon after your divorce. Your children were not interested in meeting Keith, because it was too soon for them to see their mother with another man. You went ahead and married him anyways. By doing this, you basically told them that their feelings didn't matter.

Respect is a two-way street. Since you didn't respect your children enough to at least let them warm up to Keith before you married him, don't ever expect them to respect your relationship with Keith.

[Peikko 1,575]

Matt, you are talking bullshite. However, you are quite entitled to do so. Sorry OP but I really don't think you are going to learn to deal with the guilt over a message board. Joe's post was excellent. Essentially, you shouldn't engage in arguments with your daughter but a counsellor will help you understand how to have a relationship without the anger/frustration. At least, a good one will.

As Joe said, it is not your responsibility to make a 22 year old 'happy', well not in the sense that she means at this time.

[Caladan 19]

Shari, if you can get counseling at least for yourself and Keith, that might go a-ways towards repairing your relationship with your children even if they themselves can't personally attend.

The kids are behaving selfishly, but stepfamilies can be tough under the best of circumstances and to them, your marriage to Keith seems sudden (let me be clear; I'm not suggesting that it was, just seeing the timeline from their perspective, which probably doesn't start from your first interactions with Keith as far as they're concerned, but from March of 05. Do they blame him for the divorce?), you moved away, and no matter the failings of their own father, he's still Daddy to them. That's a lot of issues to work out perfectly when one is a young adult. I'm not saying they're right, but that talking to a counselor might give you some strategies to talk to them.

[mRx 16]

Matt, you are talking bullshite.

Very intelligent observation, purple.

She said it herself that she is putting Keith and herself before her children. So why should the children be expected to welcome Keith with open arms?

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm gonna take a different stance on this.

It doesn't seem like you had any regard to what your kids felt towards you being with another man. Especially so soon after your divorce. Your children were not interested in meeting Keith, because it was too soon for them to see their mother with another man. You went ahead and married him anyways. By doing this, you basically told them that their feelings didn't matter.

Respect is a two-way street. Since you didn't respect your children enough to at least let them warm up to Keith before you married him, don't ever expect them to respect your relationship with Keith.

interesting observation ...

[Peikko 1,575]

Well Matt, exactly what purpose is served if she continues to 'beat herself up' over how the relationship started or the move to the new location? Even if she said she 'put herself and her husband first, are you suggesting that the move for her husband to take on a position more suited to his capabilities is somehow foolish? The children are not babies, the family requires a financially stable situation and suggesting that the OP was selfish and deserves to feel guilty because she didn't give into the whims of her children is at best niave and at worst malicious.

[Donna A 4]

hi shari, i know what u r talking about 100% cuz i went thru it also. my daughter will not accept my husband either becasue he is "a stranger" and "cant understand him when he talks". in other words, has no reason at all in this world but making stupid excuses like that. as soon as she turned 18 she moved out into her dads house. she forgets that her dads new wife was "a stranger" at first too but she gave her a chance. but for my husband she didnt even try to give him a chance. her dad was filling her with alot of bull #### about how my husband is just using me....blah blah and not to trust him cuz he was going to rape her and stuff like this. i know he was doing this cuz he was filling my own family with this stuff. he went to my brother saying my husband was still married to his ex and his ex even called him...my brother proceded to tell my sister and my sister finally set them all straight saying dont u think immigration is watching these things? there not going to let him here if he is still married to someone else. my ex was going to my old friends saying how i was cheating on him with my husband....i didnt know u can cheat on someone if the other party lives on the other side of the world. kinda hard isnt it? he went to my cousin and told her this story also and she just looked at him and said if she had to cheat on u then u must not have been doing ur job to keep her happy. i guess that shut his mouth right up.

anyway...just hang in there and hope some day ur kids will grow up and figure out u need to be happy too.

[mRx 16]

Well Matt, exactly what purpose is served if she continues to 'beat herself up' over how the relationship started or the move to the new location? Even if she said she 'put herself and her husband first, are you suggesting that the move for her husband to take on a position more suited to his capabilities is somehow foolish? The children are not babies, the family requires a financially stable situation and suggesting that the OP was selfish and deserves to feel guilty because she didn't give into the whims of her children is at best niave and at worst malicious.

Just because I am not bashing the daughter and labeling her as "childish", "selfish", and "immature", doesn't mean I am trying to guilt-trip the OP. Believe it or not, I am trying to help.

Is it not obvious that the problem lies with her children feeling like they are second-rate compared to Keith?

If the OP tries to understand and accept what her children are feeling, I think this would be a step in the right direction.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

(((((((((((((((((((((Shari)))))))))))))))))))))),

As much as you would like to, you won't be able to change your children's minds. They are the only ones who will be able to do that and it appears that they are not yet in a place where they can make that decision. Children who have been exposed to a lot of instability - and an alcoholic father creates an incredible sense of instability - often resist change. Unfortunately, life is about change and so they will always have serious issues in their lives until they are willing or able to learn how to 'trust' that change is ok and can be safe. You already know this because you are a mature, adult woman who wasn't subjected to that type of instability during your formative years, so you were able to heal and move on. You don't need to feel guilty about this. The children are not thinking about you or about your husband or about your ex. They are thinking about themselves. You could try and try and try and no matter how hard you tried you would never be able to make their world stop changing - it is part of life. You haven't stopped loving them. You have included them in all of your plans and arrangements but you are not letting them hold you hostage to their selfishness (even though it is based in fear) - and you cannot afford to do that for any of your sakes.

Sometimes you need to look at the larger picture as well. They are living in the here and now and they are angry and afraid because they are being asked to change and to take risks - and for them that feels dangerous. They want to stay safely in the known - even if it is unhealthy. You and Keith can set the boundaries of what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour from them. You might not be able to be their 'friend' for a while because you need to keep those boundaries intact - that they do not have the right to rule your life - and they will be unhappy and try to make you unhappy because they are unhappy - but in all honesty, it is their problem. These are problems that won't go away on their own even if you conceded to every one of their demands. There would just be more and more demands as they try to find the answers to their problems outside of themselves. You can show them how a healthy, loving relationship should behave. You can welcome them into your adult home with a parent behaving like a responsible adult. You did give them the choice and you should keep that door open for them but you won't be able to force them to come through. You are not shutting them out of your life - they are the ones shutting the door and they are the only ones who can open it again.

I agree with purplehibiscus. Everyone needs some counseling. If you can't arrange it for your children at this time, get it for yourself so you can have some understanding of how to deal with the situation in your own best interest. There is no need to be a martyr. I don't know if you ever took swimming lessons or studied to be a lifeguard or such but one of the most important lessons you learn is that you can't save anyone else if you yourself are in trouble. Even if a person is drowning, if they are dragging you under you have to let them go, even if it means they start to drown and lose consciousness. The thing is, once they have reached the point where they can no longer resist, then you can go in and rescue them without putting your own safety at risk. It sounds harsh but it results - at the best, in saving both lives and at the worst - losing only one life instead of both.

You and your husband will be together for the rest of your lives. Your children will have their own lives. Live for your future as well so that they can also learn how to do that. Good luck to you all.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Kathryn41