"How Canada Stole the American Dream"

[Reba 2]

Wow.

I think that both countries has its ups and downs. As for healthcare, yes, it is "free" in Canada, but from what I've read, if you need some sort of major surgery, you could be waiting months before you can get it and possibly die before it's your turn.

Also... earning more. Yeah, Canadians earn more, but then you pay a total of 13.5% sales tax (in Montréal... don't know what it is elsewhere in Canada) on everything you buy? That kind of eats up the savings right there. I remember the day after I got to Montréal to visit Réjean in 2006, we went to a grocery store to get food. Réjean made a comment saying he hoped that $50 would be enough for what few things he had in his cart... something that would have cost us $20 or so here in Kansas. The total came out to $49 and some cents. I damn near crapped my pants. Makes me glad sales tax here is in the 7% range.

Réjean told me a while back that he likes it better here than up there. He says there's more opportunity here than up there. Sure enough, the starting pay for the first job he got here was more than he was paid at his old job where he had worked for over 3 years! Plus he says he was shocked by how much friendlier people were here than in Québec.

Sorry if this is all convoluted because I have some serious brain fog issues right now... the point of all this is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, no matter what side you're on.

That's not just a Canada to America thing tho, that's a from here to there thing. I've had the exact opposite experience coming from Toronto to Butt #### North Carolina. Wages are typically about $10 to $15 less here for comparable jobs in Canada. And we're nickle and dimed to death with taxes! Sure, sales tax is lower, but I'm also paying property tax on my vehicles (which we don't in Canada), I'm paying Medicare off each paycheck, and I'm never going to be eligible to use it, I pay income tax to the State, and our property tax to the city as well as the County. When you add it all up, I'm paying more in taxes here in North Carolina than I was back home in Ontario, and I have far fewer government services to show for my money.

And don't get me started on health care costs! Holy ####, I pay over $400 every month for insurance and then there's the $1500 deductible, plus co-pays on everything and blah blah blah...and I can only go to a doctor that is "in my network", and even then my insurance company can reject a claim just for the helluvit. Back home I could go see anyone I want. I may have to wait a few weeks, but I've also had to wait here for specialists. BFD.

[Krikit 1,163]

And I'm sorry to piss everyone off on this entire forum, but it is my opinion, that because Canadians are so caught up in proving that they're not insecure about the way the average American views them, that they go completely off the deep end in trying to prove how much better Canada is then the US.

Happy belated Canada Day.

I was with you ever step of the way, Eric, until this part. ^^ I don't like it when people from any country make ignorant comments like they did to you and to MilwaukeeGirl..... that is purely a result of being uneducated. (And I don't mean educated in the scholastic sense of the word.) However, your last paragraph was a verbal "push", and the final sentence was a verbal "kick". I hope I am reading that wrong, but that's how you come across.

Over my lifespan here at VJ I've watched a number of these threads turn nasty, with each participant feeling hurt and misunderstood. I don't know how to fix that, and that's frustrating for me because I'm a peaceful person. I love Canada and I love the US. Each country is breathtakingly beautiful. Each country has wonderful citizens. Each country has things about them which make them distinct and special, and I appreciate that. It's so nice that entire countries can be unique unto themselves..... that you can go there and you will find nowhere else in the world quite like that. And how that uniqueness informs its citizens and creates a definite style and way about them. Unfortunately, each country also has crappy things about them, but that gives us all a goal to work towards.... making things better.

Just like each country, I think what's unique on this board is that the people immigrating are dealing with the loss of their family, their homes, their culture, and their lifestyles. That makes the feelings of pride-in-country and the need to defend it more prevalent. On the other hand, you have the sponsors who haven't been uprooted and are already home so do not understand that our comments are not so much a "take that, Americans" as they are "I love and miss Canada" comments.

[thetreble 19]

krikit, you are the best. Seriously. That was a great response.

I, too, thought your last comment eric wasn't 100% fair. I don't think I'm ever trying to prove Canadians are better. I just miss home desperately and find it hard to adjust in a place that is so different from what I am used to. No one people is better. That is completely subjective and down to personal preference. My opinion is only based on the experiences Im having.

[trailmix 77]

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

:dance: :dance: :dance:

[*JG* 2]

Interesting article.

Those who are offended, don't be.....take it for what it's worth.

[pegbert64 0]

A couple of unsolicited comments.....

First, as many others have said, I am here in the US because I love my husband, not the the country. Not that I have anything against the US, but it's not about choosing one country over the other - it's about creating a life with the person you love, wherever that may be, and making the best of it. If we decided one day to move back to Vancouver, I would be tickled! I miss skiing!!! But that also means that I'd have to leave NC barbeque, something that I've grown to LOVE! And my friends that I've made here. And the mostly-dry weather..... etc etc. It's not about Canada/Canadians being better than US/Americans. IMO, we here in North America - on both sides of the border - are so incredibly blessed compared to how most of the world lives, that we should be ashamed of our nitpicking (guilty as charged!) And I'm doubly-blessed because I now have TWO awesome countries to call "home"

Second, regarding being "Canadian" vs "American": being born and raised in Canada, we learn from day one that, unless we *choose* to relinquish it, our homeland will ALWAYS consider us a Canadian. Doesn't matter where we go, or how many other "citizenships" we choose to pick up along the way..... Canadians are Canadians forever. My understanding is that if an American were to accept citizenship of another country, then they will automatically lose their American citizenship (correct me if I'm wrong). Combine this with the fact that so many people from less fortunate countries go through so much to attain a *better* life in melting pot America, and it is understandable that Americans naturally assume that American Citizenship is the pot of gold at the end of humanity's proverbial rainbow. It's a simple matter of what you learn as a child - it becomes part of who you are. That said, one thing that does give me a good chuckle is the reaction of Americans to my AOS process and recent PR status...... they say "Congrats! You are an American now!" Huh?? I think not Of course, I graciously accept the congratulations, and sometimes explain that I am a PR, and that I will have to "apply" to become a citizen a few years from now, if I so choose....... which elicits some funny "Why wouldn't you?" looks..... as if I'm so fortunate that I don't have to be a Canadian anymore In actuality, I'm fortunate that I have the opportunity to be BOTH

Lastly, it's easy to get into the "Who's better?" debate. Having been born and raised in a border city, I never really saw a whole lot of difference between the folks in Canada (BC) and the US (Washington). Moving to the deep south (NC, especially eastern NC), one really notices the differences. A lot of folks here have never been out of the state, let alone country. Their knowledge of Canada is VERY limited, as was my knowledge of the south. Most southerners don't have a clue where Vancouver or BC are, and many are not even sure where Canada is! The general opinion seems to be that Canadians are simple folk who live in igloos, use outhouses, and dream of becoming Americans. On the flip side, the opinion of Americans that I grew up with is that Americans think they are so great just because they are Americans!! And I personally don't see anything wrong with these opinions - cuz that is what they are : OPINIONS! People like to think that they are "better", but when it comes down to it, it's all based on your personal view of the differences. I think that a quote from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy sums it up for me:

"... On the Planet Earth, Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than Dolphins because he had achieved so much: the wheel; New York; wars; and so on, whilst all the Dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the Dolphins believed that they were more intelligent than Man for precisely the same reasons. ..."-

Kudos to our American friends for accomplishing so much..... have at it!!! But if we "simple-folk Canadians" are known for hugging trees, picnicing in the mountains, loving our planet, and relishing in the peaceful solitude of sipping tea while watching the sun rise...... then maybe that's not such a bad thing

(from a Canadian forever, who is very grateful for the opportunity to experience a different view of life here in the US!)

[trailmix 77]

Canadians:

We can ply them with timbits and tire money

I was thinking about this thread and the gist of this thread in general. I personally don't feel the need to 'defend' Canada - not that everyone has, i'm not saying that.

I know what Canada is - to me. It's a good country with good people generally and we generally like to help each other out. I like that.

My one Grandmother was born in Nebraska - to two Nebraskanese parents. On my Father's side my Great Grandmother and Grandfather were born in Wisconsin, to Wisconsinese parents (all moved to Canada to live). I was just pondering what they might have thought of this conversation and have decided they would probably think it's pretty funny. I am assuming they had a good sense of humour

I wasn't brought up with the them vs us conversation, in our house - but of course I heard it and of course it is in media, like the McLeans article. On the flip side, the American media supports the 'greatest country on earth' myth. Media schmedia.

Then again, in Calgary we hear the same kind of thing about Edmonton and they haven't asked us to leave the province - although we wouldn't anyway!

Edited July 3, 2008 by trailmix

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Can someone send Charles some Canadian Tire money, please? I'm all out!

(In the meantime, maybe this will help as a holdover . . . http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html)

i'll settle for some timbits.......

Can someone send Charles some Canadian Tire money, please? I'm all out!

(In the meantime, maybe this will help as a holdover . . . http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html)

bad link!

Hmm - I'll try again: http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html hmm same link came up on this copy and paste too. Well, I did say I was all out - and I guess I really am!

Here is something that should work: http://www.numismondo.com/pm/can/index_0900.htm or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_money

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Ah - I see trailmix took care of it already - thanks Trailmix - and Charles got it ok too:-). Cool!

Oh pegbert, one correction - Americans don't lose their American citizenship when they take out citizenship in another country. They used to, but not anymore:-). The US just doesn't 'recognize' it. A US citizen can even join the army of another country, vote in elections in other countries, and not lose citizenship unless they actually take aggression against the US through their citizenship in the other country.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Kathryn41

[pegbert64 0]

Oh pegbert, one correction - Americans don't lose their American citizenship when they take out citizenship in another country. They used to, but not anymore:-). The US just doesn't 'recognize' it. A US citizen can even join the army of another country, vote in elections in other countries, and not lose citizenship unless they actually take aggression against the US through their citizenship in the other country.

That is good to know! Our current thinking is that I ought to apply for US citizenship when I can, because it will give us many more options for the rest of my life (since I'l never lose the Canadian one!) We weren't sure about my USC husband..... if, one day, we decide to go live in Canada for a number of years, and he decides to become a Canadian citizen, what will happen if we then decide to return to the US to live? Will he continue to be an "American" in the eyes of the US govt, or will they consider him a Canadian who *abandonned* his country? We thought that it would just be best for him to be a PR of Canada, if it ever came to that. Not that we have any plans to live anywhere specific in the future.... just enjoying all the options that are available to us

L

[trailmix 77]

Oh pegbert, one correction - Americans don't lose their American citizenship when they take out citizenship in another country. They used to, but not anymore:-). The US just doesn't 'recognize' it. A US citizen can even join the army of another country, vote in elections in other countries, and not lose citizenship unless they actually take aggression against the US through their citizenship in the other country.

That is good to know! Our current thinking is that I ought to apply for US citizenship when I can, because it will give us many more options for the rest of my life (since I'l never lose the Canadian one!) We weren't sure about my USC husband..... if, one day, we decide to go live in Canada for a number of years, and he decides to become a Canadian citizen, what will happen if we then decide to return to the US to live? Will he continue to be an "American" in the eyes of the US govt, or will they consider him a Canadian who *abandonned* his country? We thought that it would just be best for him to be a PR of Canada, if it ever came to that. Not that we have any plans to live anywhere specific in the future.... just enjoying all the options that are available to us

L

The Americans will consider him to be an American and the Canadians will consider him to be a Canadian - no conflict there.

On the other hand, if he just gets PR status in Canada he won't lose it, no matter where you two move to, as long as he is living with the Canadian citizen

[Krikit 1,163]

That is good to know! Our current thinking is that I ought to apply for US citizenship when I can, because it will give us many more options for the rest of my life (since I'l never lose the Canadian one!) We weren't sure about my USC husband..... if, one day, we decide to go live in Canada for a number of years, and he decides to become a Canadian citizen, what will happen if we then decide to return to the US to live? Will he continue to be an "American" in the eyes of the US govt, or will they consider him a Canadian who *abandonned* his country? We thought that it would just be best for him to be a PR of Canada, if it ever came to that. Not that we have any plans to live anywhere specific in the future.... just enjoying all the options that are available to us

Basically, you use your Canadian passport when entering Canada and you use your US passport when entering the US. Each country recognizes you as its citizen.

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

We are going to be one big country in the future anyway with the North American Union. http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=nort...1&FORM=PORE

[trailmix 77]

We are going to be one big country in the future anyway with the North American Union. http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=nort...1&FORM=PORE