My nightmare...

[paul. 0]

Hi all,

first of all, I apologize if this is in the wrong area - I just joined and my question is a little strange maybe.

I am a UK citizen, I just left the Army after 10 years service and during my travels met a beautiful American woman. She traveled to the UK and we lived together for a year before she had to go back home in Dec. 07. In that year, we knew we were absolutely right for each other and I decided to leave the service and travel to America to get married. It took me three months after she left to manage to get to the USA and I arrived on a VWP 2 weeks ago with the intention to get married, for her to submit an I-130 and then for me to travel back at the end of the 90 days and await a call forward to the Embassy in London.

Now I kind of figured it would be a good idea to talk to an attorney to get any lowdown on possible other routes (to shorten our time apart, as every couple probably wants) and called americanvisas.com. After speaking to a guy who is, apparently, in the top 10 of immigration attorneys in the USA, he mentioned to me that it would not hurt to just try and adjust my status to PR based on our marriage while I am here on the VWP. This is because I got rid of everything in my life in the UK - house, car, job, etc. and my family actually live in The Netherlands, so I have nowhere to stay in England.

The problem is, I heard that this is frowned upon by USCIS (or called lying on entry - but I had intentions to return when I turned up, but just have now been advised by a professional otherwise) and although the guy said it was a 50/50 chance and the only "punishment" is losing the $1010 and getting sent home (which to be honest, is not that bad as I'll only be where I am now - starting the I-130, and we won't have been apart), I am just worried to death that it will have repercussions. I am getting married tomorrow morning and am over the moon about that, but am just so worried as this all seems to be murky water.

I would love to have some advice from you guys, thank you for your time.

[JillianShea 0]

Wouldn't it be ok to get married, go home in time on your I-94 and apply for fiance visa to come back? I think there is a fiance visa for those who are already married. There wouldn't be any fraud at all that way

Someone more knowledge please help me out here...........

Edited April 2, 2008 by JillianShea

[tom_g 3]

Wouldn't it be ok to get married, go home in time on your I-94 and apply for fiance visa to come back? I think there is a fiance visa for those who are already married. There wouldn't be any fraud at all that way

Someone more knowledge please help me out here...........

you can't get a fiance visa if you're married

I think its a K3 visa you'd apply for...

personally - if it was me - i'd wait until the end of the 90 days, then get married and apply for AOS. it would be easier to convince USCIS that you genuinely didn't mean to enter the country on a lie. If you enter on VWP and only leave it two weeks - i don't know - how plausible does it sound to you that you didn't enter the country with intent?

i wonder whether we can get through this thread with pure useful input and no judging?

[tucson_chick 0]

well - technically what your lawyer tells you to do is visa fraud, which could result in a ban.

i guess for all of us here on the board who had to go trough the long period of NOT being together and waiting for the visa while being apart, your lawyers' opinion is really dumb.

but maybe it's just a loophole we didn't catch?

oh, AND THERE IS NO FIANCE VISA FOR MARRIED PEOPLE. its called FIANCE visa for a reason.

[Mags 112]

Well, his intent at POE was just to get married, not stay and adjust status. It was after the fact that he was advised by his lawyer to try and adjust status this way, so technically his lawyer isn't advocating visa fraud.

One thing to look at is that to adjust status this way means you have to prove you didn't intend to stay. This means showing ties back home (eg, mortgage, rental agreements, job etc etc). From your post you have nothing left back in the UK - no house, no car, nowhere to stay. It is going to be very hard to prove to USCIS that your intent at POE was not to defraud.

You sound like a genuine guy to me who is just looking for ideas and ways to be with your wife quickly. Unfortunately, imo, this way is probably not the best way for you to do this. Personally, I'd stay until your I-94 is due to run out, return home and send in the I-130.

Good luck!

Edit: I just want to add that "just being sent home" isn't the only thing that could go wrong should you be denied adjusting status this way. It can be classed as fraud and can incur a ban from the USA - it'll also show up when you try to apply down the line for the I-130. Something to think about.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Mags

[nane1104 146]

First of all, Congratulations to your wedding tomorrow!!! May it be the best day of your life!!!!

I don't think this is a nightmare you are in, but there are a few obsticles I see in your case.

You said you came here with the inted to marry but not to stay. This is totally fine and legal and nobody can hold anything against you here. The only problem I see is that you mentioned that you basically have no ties to the UK anymore and I see a strong possibility that USCIS will not believe you that you didn't intend to get married and just stay here.

It is a common thing that people get married and apply for AOS skipping the whole visa process. Nothing wrong with it, but they have to proof that this was spontaneous. If you have enough proof, I don't really see a problem, BUT I am not sure what the legal consequences are in case they deny your case. THere might be a ban for an x amountof years, but that is more of a guess of mine. I am sure though, hat omeone else has more info for you.

Safer would probably be to get married, return to the UK and apply for the right visa and then come back that way.

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

I would stay.

In my limited experience, I would suggest that the chances of you being approved are far higher than 50/50.

[pushbrk 12,152]

Well, his intent at POE was just to get married, not stay and adjust status. It was after the fact that he was advised by his lawyer to try and adjust status this way, so technically his lawyer isn't advocating visa fraud.

One thing to look at is that to adjust status this way means you have to prove you didn't intend to stay. This means showing ties back home (eg, mortgage, rental agreements, job etc etc). From your post you have nothing left back in the UK - no house, no car, nowhere to stay. It is going to be very hard to prove to USCIS that your intent at POE was not to defraud.

You sound like a genuine guy to me who is just looking for ideas and ways to be with your wife quickly. Unfortunately, imo, this way is probably not the best way for you to do this. Personally, I'd stay until your I-94 is due to run out, return home and send in the I-130.

Good luck!

Edit: I just want to add that "just being sent home" isn't the only thing that could go wrong should you be denied adjusting status this way. It can be classed as fraud and can incur a ban from the USA - it'll also show up when you try to apply down the line for the I-130. Something to think about.

I think Mags has it nailed except you don't actually have to wait until you return to file the I-130. You may also be able to visit the US again during the visa process. I'd be thinking in terms of taking a honeymoon to Mexico, then come back to the USA with a fresh I-94 and file the I-130. Then go back to the UK before your granted stay expires.

[paul. 0]

Wow, so many responses already. Thank you so much!

I can assure you that Mags and pushbrk are correct in their opinion. The reason I have vacated everything back in England is because my family is actually from The Netherlands and I will be returning there once my 90 days is up - my return ticket is to Amsterdam, June 11th 2008 - 85 days after entry, so I was sure not to overrun even if we hit a touch of bad weather, that's how careful I have been!

The reason I asked here was because I did have my suspicions that the information could lead to a ban, based on readings over at another via forum (http://britishexpats.com/forum/). Anyway, now you guys have confirmed my fears and my fiancee is back from work, we have decided to go ahead and continue the wedding tomorrow and now we know she can file the I-130 with me still here (thanks pushbrk), we still have 2 months together before I go back. Regarding your advice though, if I were to go on a honeymoon to Mexico (sounds great!) and come back with a fresh I-94, wouldn't that raise suspicions, or be allowed at all? Because I heard you should leave the USA for as long as you've been in it, as a rule of thumb to not annoy the POE USCIS.

Furthermore, could someone please advise me on the duration of the I-130 petition and the CR-1 visa (which was our original plan anyway), because I heard that anywhere between 5-11 months is about right (as of december 07, when i was told that), but with your very nice graphs, I know see two stages to the I-130, the NOA1 and NOA2....I am not sure what that is and that raised hairs as some of those waits are long indeed (London average wait 337 days?!!).

Brain is now fried with numbers, so I might take a chill pill for the evening and get back to studying visa stuff in a few days, so I will be back here to check any replies - thank you so much again for your hospitality, it's greatly appreciated.

[nane1104 146]

I don't think leaving and re-entering would be a problem, my sister has done that before and had no problems at all. Just don't let them know that you just got married so recently, THAT might raise suspicion!

Have a wonderful wedding day!

[tom_g 3]

As far as the waiting goes, if you leave the country and "ask" to be let back in again, you'll pay the price for your integrity. According to the timelines, the CR1 and K3 are both taking well over 200 days, so figure 2/3s of a year before you're back in the country on the relevant visa.

Of course, the price you may pay for not acting with integrity may be much higher, but as someone above said, you're probably looking at over 50/50. You were in the armed services so you probably understand risk well enough to make a decision for yourself.

One spot of advise, though: look for the visa that lets you work the moment you hit US soil - find out which visa gives you employment authorisation, and which visa will make you apply for it when you come back. It can make a big difference.

all the best for tomorrow

[athena_ny 1]

Hi all,

first of all, I apologize if this is in the wrong area - I just joined and my question is a little strange maybe.

I am a UK citizen, I just left the Army after 10 years service and during my travels met a beautiful American woman. She traveled to the UK and we lived together for a year before she had to go back home in Dec. 07. In that year, we knew we were absolutely right for each other and I decided to leave the service and travel to America to get married. It took me three months after she left to manage to get to the USA and I arrived on a VWP 2 weeks ago with the intention to get married, for her to submit an I-130 and then for me to travel back at the end of the 90 days and await a call forward to the Embassy in London.

Now I kind of figured it would be a good idea to talk to an attorney to get any lowdown on possible other routes (to shorten our time apart, as every couple probably wants) and called americanvisas.com. After speaking to a guy who is, apparently, in the top 10 of immigration attorneys in the USA, he mentioned to me that it would not hurt to just try and adjust my status to PR based on our marriage while I am here on the VWP. This is because I got rid of everything in my life in the UK - house, car, job, etc. and my family actually live in The Netherlands, so I have nowhere to stay in England.

The problem is, I heard that this is frowned upon by USCIS (or called lying on entry - but I had intentions to return when I turned up, but just have now been advised by a professional otherwise) and although the guy said it was a 50/50 chance and the only "punishment" is losing the $1010 and getting sent home (which to be honest, is not that bad as I'll only be where I am now - starting the I-130, and we won't have been apart), I am just worried to death that it will have repercussions. I am getting married tomorrow morning and am over the moon about that, but am just so worried as this all seems to be murky water.

I would love to have some advice from you guys, thank you for your time.

"Getting sent home" if they deny you isn't as easy as re-applying and returning. You'll be facing (I believe) a 10 year bar for committing visa fraud. It's imperative you know the consequences if you are not approved, so there are no shocks. I suppose you could reapply for a K-3, but you'd definitely need a waiver...

While there are some members of VJ who are doing this/have contemplated doing this, and as long as your intentions were not to stay, you could do it, it IS a risk. Immigration officers do not always see things are they really are. Attempting to stay now wouldn't be visa fraud, but if the IO sees it as visa fraud, you're screwed. However, I see your chances as higher than 50/50 if you can prove you had ties back home like Mags said.

Ultimately, it's up to you. The peopl who sit there and say it's visa fraud and you'll for sure get banned from the country are wrong - a lot of people get married on the VWP. I know ChristinaM was in the same situation you were in, except she'd submitted the K-1, when a lawyer advised her to cancel it, get married, and file the I-130 and not leave. Kez got married and successfully adjusted on the VWP. There are others. If you're willing to accept there is a risk and deal with those consequences if they come your way, go for it. If you want a longer, but more certain way of doing things, return and file for a CR-1 or a K-3 visa.

However, if you decide to file an I-130 from within the US, DO NOT LEAVE. Even with advance parole documents. If you are denied after leaving and re-entering on advance parole, you will have no right to appeal from what I can gather, because your body has been paroled in but your legal status is at the border or some such nonsense.

Edited April 2, 2008 by athena_ny

[Mags 112]

Athena_ny does add some excellent points here. If you were to be denied at your AOS interview you cannot appeal if you adjust from the VWP. If you are denied then you have accumulated an overstay, and an overstay is normally given a ban (in most cases)...

I also want mention again that both Kezzie and ChristinaM had ties to their home countries. If I recall correctly, Kezzie still had her car in long term parking at the airport, a job and a house to return to. She had numerous ties confirming that she had not intended to stay.

The OP here has nothing, which is why I feel it would be hard for him to prove his intent was not to stay and adjust status at POE.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Mags

[athena_ny 1]

Athena_ny does add some excellent points here. If you were to be denied at your AOS interview you cannot appeal if you adjust from the VWP. If you are denied then you have accumulated an overstay, and an overstay is normally given a ban (in most cases)...

I also want mention again that both Kezzie and ChristinaM had ties to their home countries. If I recall correctly, Kezzie still had her car in long term parking at the airport, a job and a house to return to. She had numerous ties confirming that she had not intended to stay.

The OP here has nothing, which is why I feel it would be hard for him to prove his intent was not to stay and adjust status at POE.

Ack, I missed that he had nothing.

Yeah, if you have nothing, that's a huge issue. I'd return as soon as my I-94 dictates I need to.

[paul. 0]

Thanks guys, I am quite annoyed with the attorney that would make me risk so much. A ten year ban is something I could not live with, as I have literally given up a great job, a house and a car to be free of ties when the CR-1 visa eventually came through (which is as I had originally planned it), because as I mentioned I will be staying in Holland after my I-94 expires.

I have decided to go down the route of the CR-1 anyway, I do not think I have sufficient background to pass the "sufficient ties back home to prove no intent to stay", so will have to live with what we were going to do anyway. I was just given a little glimmer of an easier way by the attorney and I can not believe he would say that to me, knowing I gave him all the info I have in this thread....anyway, what's done is done and I am glad I managed to get some advice from you all. I thank you all dearly, I do know risk management and this is a time to not risk anything at all and to do it all the long way. It will pay off in the end, I'm certain.

Our wedding was fun, we had a blast and we are very happy.

I will surely have more questions for you guys in coming days as we try to get through the I-130 deal with an affidavit of support from my in-laws (my wife is studying at University, so can't support me). One question I have right now is if I depart after 85 days on the I-94, when could I get back in to the USA for another 85 day stay? We don't have a lot of money, but I have enough to visit 90 days in country, 90 days out of country so would like to so that while the I-130/CR-1 is processing if it really is 200 days (and is that 200 days for the I-130 or for both I-130 and CR-1?).

Thanks a bunch again, folks.