How do I stop her immigration?

[tito 1]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

Edited March 4, 2008 by tito

[diadromous mermaid 36]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

[sj5 4]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

Hi Tito,

Most of your posting are good but how about when children is involved? just leaved behind or take the kid?

Edited March 4, 2008 by SJ

[diadromous mermaid 36]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

Well, one can only surmise that you were taken advantage of personally, and your professional experience, while not an immigration lawyer, must be closely enough associated with aliens seeking immigration benefits in some way.

Nonetheless, there are others that have personal experience, that do not tend to lump all aliens in one class, and still are able to offer insight to USCs to be prepared for one of these scenarios you describe so well. The distinction is to be able to identify when such advice is wise, and when it is not germane. There are aliens that have a legitimate right to remain in the USA. At the same time, I think we all understand that there are always some that do not have such a right.

[rebeccajo 14]

Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out. What started as an optimistic future has become a marriage of convenience for her and her daughters immigration. The financial and emotional toll on my children and I has been nearly unbearable.

We are at the point that the adjustment of status has been applied for and her appointment for biometrics is in 2 weeks.

Thus far, I've issued stop payment on the checks and sent letters to the national and local offices withdrawing my endorsement of the affidavit of support. All of this unbeknownst to her.

Her visa expires, coincidentally, on the 4th of July 2008.

Can I still stop her adjustment of status?

If so, will the USCIS send a letter telling her to leave the country?

Thank you for any help.

Brian

You know, tito, I guess different people read things differently.

I look at this post and I see the bolded part. I could be wrong but to me, it sounds like the OP and foreign born spouse are still sharing the same household. Now I'm no idiot and I realize a claim of spousal abuse can still be made even though the intending immigrant never flees the abusive household. But I'd say that raises the bar of proof (which mermaid spoke of earlier) to a higher level still.

I also observe the expiration date of the visa. Looks like a K3 to me - it sure doesn't fit the pattern of a K1. If I'm right, the couple has been married around 18 months. Not the picture you paint of the immigrant looking to yell 'abuse' the moment things go sour. From the few sentences we've been given, I see a marriage that's been going south for a while.

Possible frauding of the USC by the immigrant? Maybe.

But once again I see the USC ready to pull the affidavit and send the immigrant packing. If there's been real, unmitigated, planned fraud on the part of the immigrant, I have no problem with that attitude. But a human being isn't like a toaster over we can return to Wal-Mart if it starts going on the fritz. For that reason, these posts always bug me.

We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same.

Edited March 4, 2008 by rebeccajo

[tito 1]

OF COURSE there are a myriad of variables involved. The instances I see here, however, and in practice, seem to have a familiar fact pattern...the country, the apparent acumen of the immigrant, the duration of the relationship, age, maturity, cultural awareness, circumstances regarding the genesis of the relationship, the clues about how the relationship began what seems like its sudden demise, the duration of the relationship, the time spent in the US...I'm not lumping every immigrant situation into one bucket. To the contrary. I AM, however, generalizing based on those familiar fact patterns, the same countries involved, the similar apparent sophistication of the immigrant and, among other things, the fact that the claims being made generally DO sound the same...hints of claims about abuse, control, manipulation...it's all right here. My point is that I don't think it's right to take things at face value without considering (i) what the other side of the story might be, and (ii) whether, under the circumstances, it would be best for the immigrant to return home. There's quite a bit of warm and fuzzy best wishes and all, with people wanting to do good, dispensing advice about protecting onesself, going to shelters, reporting to the police, and things like that, but things don't really add up in many of these instances where the poster is searching for sympathy for her cause.

Would it matter if a child is involved? Was the child that of the USC as well? What was the relationship between the USC and the child? Sure those are variables. But if life is so terrible for an immigrant, rather than try to bootstrap something to make sure that the immigrant gets his or her green card, why ISN'T going home an option? That's my question...

Regarding the viability of an abuse claim that would entitle the immigrant to self apply? They absolutely CAN be a piece of cake! As I mentioned in other posts, there are attorneys out there who send their prospective immigrant clients to a psychologist who does a work-up that concludes that the immigrant was absolutely traumatized! There is no testimony from the USC who is accused of the abuse. In the interim, during the time this case is being prosecuted, the immigrant lives here often times on the dime of the USC, or taxpayers.

So...there are variables, indeed; there are other options for the immigrant who ought to consider going home as one of them; an abuse case can be and they often are a stepping stone for an immigrant whose motives might not have been as savory as initially imagined by the USC.

There is a basis for the stuff I'm saying, and if it's being repeated, it is due to the fact that the same warm-fuzzy sympathy is constantly smothering a different reality, and it is important to contemplate another point of view and perspective.

[tito 1]

"We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same. "

Absolutely. Well stated and well reasoned. There are variables, and what I've tried to do is expand the perspective of the options available. There are recurring themes, recurring fact patterns, the same countries involved, the same sort of accusations, that give a very familiar tone to some of these threads. These are the threads where things went sour, many times in a hurry. Could it be that the immigrant just doesn't understand some of the facets of life in the US? SURE! Is that "abuse"? NO! But sometimes these 'abuse' cases do stem from a lack of understanding on the part of the immigrant, who has or had expectations that were not satisfied, and their frustration manifests in different ways.

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

[pushbrk 12,136]

"We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same. "

Absolutely. Well stated and well reasoned. There are variables, and what I've tried to do is expand the perspective of the options available. There are recurring themes, recurring fact patterns, the same countries involved, the same sort of accusations, that give a very familiar tone to some of these threads. These are the threads where things went sour, many times in a hurry. Could it be that the immigrant just doesn't understand some of the facets of life in the US? SURE! Is that "abuse"? NO! But sometimes these 'abuse' cases do stem from a lack of understanding on the part of the immigrant, who has or had expectations that were not satisfied, and their frustration manifests in different ways.

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

Once the cohabitation ceases and/or one party declares their intention to end the marriage, the intending immigrant is forced to make some decisions about their life. If they decide staying in the USA is a high priority and they have no appropriate sponsor, they often seek advice from people who are aware that claiming abuse is about the only way they can successfully stay in the USA. Depending on their personal integrity, they may decide to pursue this avenue. All USC's that are in circumstances that may expose them to this risk, are well served to be aware and take defensive action as appropriate to their circumstances. The appropriate action could range from nothing to a a whole lot. That's for the individual to judge. Informed decisions and all....

[zqt3344 21]

This is absurd. You are melding a bunch of different things together to create your OWN agenda. And I repeat the question: is it that you get your jollies seeing others suffer in failed relationshps? Or are you just anticipating what best to do in the event your relationship doesn't work out? Not clear about your agenda.

My "agenda" is to participate in discussions, and to do what little I can to help people who share the international relationship connection with me. One of the things I think I can help with is to point out a shyster when I see one.

My advice is sound. Quit putting words and ideas and sentiments into my mouth because of your own agenda.

Nobody's putting words in your mouth. As I've said, one only needs to do a search on your posts to see the pattern. Single-minded hijacking of threads to advance your anti-immigrant rantings. The "New Life" thread is a perfect example. The OP wanted to know how people were coping with their new life, never mentioned abuse, and in fact nobody else mentioned abuse until you brought it up. You had to really shoe-horn it into that thread.

Again, you post only in this forum, and you post only your tirade about immigrants who take advantage of USC's. If that's not an agenda then someone please call the guy in charge of the English language and tell him it's broken.

To clarify: I am not an immigration attorney, but the immigration issues are prevalent in my office.

Maybe you could be a little more specific if anyone were to take you seriously. The other attornies and legal secretaries who post on these forums have never had a problem discussing exactly what their jobs are and what kinds of cases they work on. You, however, seem to think you're Batman, lurking in the shadows, promising us that you have all this "professional experience." My intarweb-radar identifies you as a possible intern punk who's trying to leech onto some professional cred before he's ready, but then I suppose it's possible to be a full-fledged attorney and be maliciously incompetent too. Either way, very few here are impressed.

Sorry - but that's just the reality, no matter your particular fantasy - and that certainly manifests repeatedly. Thanks for following me around and paying so much attention to what I'm saying - I AM truly flattered - but enough already.

I agree, enough already. Stop your blathering and become a true participant in these forums instead of spewing ####### all over them. You're not helping anybody except your small following of mouth-breathing minions.

Oh and you are helping Mox? Like you are the moral authority on this, Mox, you spew and blather as much if not more than Tito. Please both of you take a time-out! And agree to disagree and show some tact. Both of you have your points which so what if they conflict it is no reason to act this way.

[pushbrk 12,136]

This is absurd. You are melding a bunch of different things together to create your OWN agenda. And I repeat the question: is it that you get your jollies seeing others suffer in failed relationshps? Or are you just anticipating what best to do in the event your relationship doesn't work out? Not clear about your agenda.

My "agenda" is to participate in discussions, and to do what little I can to help people who share the international relationship connection with me. One of the things I think I can help with is to point out a shyster when I see one.

My advice is sound. Quit putting words and ideas and sentiments into my mouth because of your own agenda.

Nobody's putting words in your mouth. As I've said, one only needs to do a search on your posts to see the pattern. Single-minded hijacking of threads to advance your anti-immigrant rantings. The "New Life" thread is a perfect example. The OP wanted to know how people were coping with their new life, never mentioned abuse, and in fact nobody else mentioned abuse until you brought it up. You had to really shoe-horn it into that thread.

Again, you post only in this forum, and you post only your tirade about immigrants who take advantage of USC's. If that's not an agenda then someone please call the guy in charge of the English language and tell him it's broken.

To clarify: I am not an immigration attorney, but the immigration issues are prevalent in my office.

Maybe you could be a little more specific if anyone were to take you seriously. The other attornies and legal secretaries who post on these forums have never had a problem discussing exactly what their jobs are and what kinds of cases they work on. You, however, seem to think you're Batman, lurking in the shadows, promising us that you have all this "professional experience." My intarweb-radar identifies you as a possible intern punk who's trying to leech onto some professional cred before he's ready, but then I suppose it's possible to be a full-fledged attorney and be maliciously incompetent too. Either way, very few here are impressed.

Sorry - but that's just the reality, no matter your particular fantasy - and that certainly manifests repeatedly. Thanks for following me around and paying so much attention to what I'm saying - I AM truly flattered - but enough already.

I agree, enough already. Stop your blathering and become a true participant in these forums instead of spewing ####### all over them. You're not helping anybody except your small following of mouth-breathing minions.

Oh and you are helping Mox? Like you are the moral authority on this, Mox, you spew and blather as much if not more than Tito. Please both of you take a time-out! And agree to disagree and show some tact. Both of you have your points which so what if they conflict it is no reason to act this way.

Things work out so much better when we all just confine our responses to the topic and avoid making them about the poster. It's so simple.

[Habilus 0]

Thank you all so much for your kind reflections and advice. We just returned from a long road trip to SanFrancisco to renew her expiring passport. I am pretty sure she will need that to get home. We got back late and I had to work today. Because her passport was surrendered for renewal, we'll have to re-schedule her biometrics appointment.

As for the spousal abuse. She is the one with the police record. Last year, in one of her outbursts, she back fisted me. I dialed 911 instantly. The police responded and verified the bruise on my face. In my up-bringing hitting a woman is a despicible act of cowardice.

I don't think she intended fraud, but rather, enduring an unhappy marriage seemed better than her life before. Her impression of America came from tv and movies. She simply can't believe westerners really work this hard. I have a full time job in high-tech and a small business. That business had suffered huge losses until recently. (no help from her, she's the laziest person I've ever met)

My goal: As soon as she realizes her immigration has been denied, try to convince her that the application was denied due to my inability to support a family. She's somewhat aware that my net worth is nearly zero because of the business. If she can just go home for a little while, I can re-apply when I have more money.

I'm not at all proud of doing this, I only wish her the best, but I have a duty to my children and myself to un-do this terrible mistake.

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and advice. It's nice to know that some people will still take time to help others.

[pushbrk 12,136]

Thank you all so much for your kind reflections and advice. We just returned from a long road trip to SanFrancisco to renew her expiring passport. I am pretty sure she will need that to get home. We got back late and I had to work today. Because her passport was surrendered for renewal, we'll have to re-schedule her biometrics appointment.

As for the spousal abuse. She is the one with the police record. Last year, in one of her outbursts, she back fisted me. I dialed 911 instantly. The police responded and verified the bruise on my face. In my up-bringing hitting a woman is a despicible act of cowardice.

I don't think she intended fraud, but rather, enduring an unhappy marriage seemed better than her life before. Her impression of America came from tv and movies. She simply can't believe westerners really work this hard. I have a full time job in high-tech and a small business. That business had suffered huge losses until recently. (no help from her, she's the laziest person I've ever met)

My goal: As soon as she realizes her immigration has been denied, try to convince her that the application was denied due to my inability to support a family. She's somewhat aware that my net worth is nearly zero because of the business. If she can just go home for a little while, I can re-apply when I have more money.

I'm not at all proud of doing this, I only wish her the best, but I have a duty to my children and myself to un-do this terrible mistake.

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and advice. It's nice to know that some people will still take time to help others.

You make it sound like you would be trying to convince her of a lie. That might be enough to qualify as manipulation, control or even abuse. Why not simply tell her the truth, which if I understand correctly is that your marriage didn't work and you're getting a divorce. As such, you will not be sponsoring her status as permanent resident but would be happy to pay her way home and otherwise treat her honorably.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

...why ISN'T going home an option? That's my question...

and it's been answered MANY times, by MANY people, and yet here you are still asking it... I'm guessing it's rhetorical, as you obviously have no real interest in any form of answer

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

strange that you expect that from others, and yet again, it somehow does not apply to you...

[Boiler 43,540]

Not that it matters, but you can not renew by post?

I do not remember needing a passport for Biometrics.

There is only so much you can do from an Immigration perspective, what you need is a Divorce lawyer.

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.