Another illegal immigrant takes sanctuary at Chicago church

[no name 1]

I also agree, deportation will happen. Read back and you'll see my opinion on that issue.

Fighting a humanitarian issue, on the other hand, is well... plain old insensitive and very, very, unhumanitarian. Go figure. Screw her for breaking a law, right? Even if it means abject poverty back home in a country where we do very well business wise while those that work for us get screwed.

You may see no relationship. I see a golden opportunity to 1) improve the world and 2) reduce law breaking in this country.

Heck, if we don't want to change the law we should at least change the way we suck cash out of other nations. Banana Republic style.

And come on... read with me back in the thread. She must go and respect our laws even though they suck. All the while some people sit on their hands and do nothing to fix the problems that bring her and 12M others here.

Which is it?

[Scott & Lai 12]

Marc devilette isn't part of the "illegal alien cheerleading squad"

best.post.on.this.thread

I got "best post" (and a chance to use the "whispering" smiley )

[SMOKE 1,426]

Marc devilette isn't part of the "illegal alien cheerleading squad"

best.post.on.this.thread

I got "best post" (and a chance to use the "whispering" smiley )

CONGRATS SCOTT!

[HAL 9000 96]

Attack the messenger AND the message, apparently. Enough for the next 12 hours... science awaits all day.

I like how you talk about poverty yet fail to address that the USA has its own poor to worry about. The fact is that every job an illegal immigrant has is a loss of a job for one of the 50,000,000+ Americans living in poverty. Every low skilled job a illegal immigrant takes up consequently suppresses wages for Americans working in low paying jobs. Supply and demand 101.

Do you see a link between the countries with the highest living standards, in the world, to their strict and strongly enforced immigration policy. Whereas America has a lax policy on illegal immigration and is paying for it through a yearly drop in living standards. Having a few very rich people in a country does not mean a country is rich. Ironically Mexico is a great example of this having the richest person in the entire "W O R L D" living there.

These are valid points to be addressed separately if need be. The case for illegal immigration has a root cause that is somewhat separate, but parallel, to several root causes for poverty and low skills in our own country. People have many more choices, if compared on a parallel basis, than folks overseas. Any one coming to this country should have the capacity to notice that quite rapidly.

By osmosis people tend to flow towards where they can better support themselves. That is an unwritten law of life, no? And yes, our Media Mogul Friend is the richest man on earth. This man obviously is a capitalist. That is the only issue, and yet I do not advocate a socialist system where all are required to financially spread themselves equally to ensure the survival and sustenance of all.

Americans living in poverty live so due to economic policies in our nation as well as choices. This is separate from the policies we enforce and permit overseas in order to ironically maintain a disproportionate number of wealthy Americans in their status with the overwhelming support from their overseas counterparts that are concomitantly supported in power by our very own status quo. In other words, we help keep them in power, we help the current economic atmosphere flourish overseas, and by consequence...

... we continue to stimulate our illegal problem. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it, we ourselves are feeding the beast.

Enforcement of current laws that circumvent these issues is what is unfair. Enforcing fair laws based on fair foreign policy should be what we strive to do as a democratic and just nation.

I also agree, deportation will happen. Read back and you'll see my opinion on that issue.

Fighting a humanitarian issue, on the other hand, is well... plain old insensitive and very, very, unhumanitarian. Go figure. Screw her for breaking a law, right? Even if it means abject poverty back home in a country where we do very well business wise while those that work for us get screwed.

You may see no relationship. I see a golden opportunity to 1) improve the world and 2) reduce law breaking in this country.

Heck, if we don't want to change the law we should at least change the way we suck cash out of other nations. Banana Republic style.

And come on... read with me back in the thread. She must go and respect our laws even though they suck. All the while some people sit on their hands and do nothing to fix the problems that bring her and 12M others here.

Which is it?

The italics up there denotes it is a question, not an opinion. That's what... it is.

[Heracles 417]

These are valid points to be addressed separately if need be. The case for illegal immigration has a root cause that is somewhat separate, but parallel, to several root causes for poverty and low skills in our own country. People have many more choices, if compared on a parallel basis, than folks overseas. Any one coming to this country should have the capacity to notice that quite rapidly.

By osmosis people tend to flow towards where they can better support themselves. That is an unwritten law of life, no? And yes, our Media Mogul Friend is the richest man on earth. This man obviously is a capitalist. That is the only issue, and yet I do not advocate a socialist system where all are required to financially spread themselves equally to ensure the survival and sustenance of all.

Americans living in poverty live so due to economic policies in our nation as well as choices. This is separate from the policies we enforce and permit overseas in order to ironically maintain a disproportionate number of wealthy Americans in their status with the overwhelming support from their overseas counterparts that are concomitantly supported in power by our very own status quo. In other words, we help keep them in power, we help the current economic atmosphere flourish overseas, and by consequence...

... we continue to stimulate our illegal problem. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it, we ourselves are feeding the beast.

Enforcement of current laws that circumvent these issues is what is unfair. Enforcing fair laws based on fair foreign policy should be what we strive to do as a democratic and just nation.

The issues are interrelated. The poor need work, fair pay and the opportunity to get out of poverty. This will never happen as long as there is an endless supply of cheap labor from the southern borders. The American government's and all American citizens social responsibility, for that matter, is to the American people first. We need to make sure the middle and lower class Americans are prosperous again before we can take care of others.

A sound immigration policy will trickle people in. Rather than allow them to enter as they see fit. Such a policy will not bring down everyone else's living standard while trying to absorb poverty. If you have a look at various nations with high living standards, they have such policies in place. To the contrary, the living standards of Americans middle and lower class is on a downward spiral.

There are many other avenues for poor South Americans to take rather than breaking into another nation. For example, I know Australia is begging for skilled labor and workers. South American nations have issues to overcome like everybody else. Some people seem to not only think that the average American is rich but also confuse America for unicef.

Law and order is the foundation of every civilized nation.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[panamania79 2]

Nice try, and nice info. Again, not having to do with the actual discussion in the thread at this point. Unless, of course you want to use the terms to address the implied sentiment of ignorance by stimulating overconsumption by us and not putting up our fair share of the use of cash crops abroad.

YOU brought it up, not Natty.

Dude didn't leave just yet... sucks for me.

Yeah, so sorry... my language must not be clear enough to list every single kind of visa available for all legal immigrants vs all the ones not available for those that just want to have a better, sustainable, and survivable life. Geez, my bad.

it's called revolutions, in their own countries. Change starts at home.

In Latin America,revolution starters usually end up wearing cement shoes in the bottom of the ocean somwhere.It is not a pretty site.The oligarchy rules and there really isn't anything common folk can do about it.

[no name 1]

Illegal immigrant vows to stand ground

January 29, 2008

BY KARA SPAK Staff Reporter/kspak@suntimes.com

Saying she hoped the fear of God would keep federal agents away, undocumented immigrant Flor Crisostomo on Monday vowed to stay in a Humboldt Park church indefinitely to keep Congress focused on immigration reform. :lol:

Tears streaming down her cheeks, a defiant Crisostomo said she did not believe she was breaking U.S. law, nor did she see herself as hiding.

Flor Crisostomo, an illegal immigrant from Mexico arrested at a workplace raid in Chicago in 2006, speaks in Adalberto United Methodist Church where she sought sanctuary Monday to avoid deportation.

Arrested in an immigration raid in April 2006, she was ordered to leave the country voluntarily by Jan. 28. Crisostomo sought "sanctuary" in the Adalberto United Methodist Church, the same church that housed undocumented immigrant Elvira Arellano and Arellano's U.S.-born son Saul, for more than a year.

"I am taking a stand of civil disobedience to make America see what they are doing," Crisostomo said in a statement that was translated into English. Speaking in broken English, she said immigrants are not terrorists but hard-working people contributing to the economy.

"The real problem is the color and the language," she said.

U.S. immigration officials saw the issue differently, releasing a statement that said Crisostomo was given a voluntary departure order Oct. 12, 2006. After an appeal failed in December 2007, she was given 60 more days to leave the country on her own.

"Ms. Crisostomo will be taken into custody at an appropriate time and place with consideration given to the safety of all involved," read the statement released by Gail Montenegro, spokesperson for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Montenegro said that it is also illegal to "knowingly harbor an illegal alien," and those who do so can be subject to criminal prosecution. (for Purple H)

Unlike Arellano, who was living with her son, Saul, at the church, Crisostomo's three children, ages 14, 11 and 9, live with their grandmother in Mexico.

Crisostomo, 28, left her children in Guerrero, Mexico, seven years ago to work illegally in the United States. She was arrested April 19, 2006, during an immigration raid at a pallet factory where she earned $300 a week.

Arellano lived in the church for more than a year. She left in August 2007 to attend an immigration rally in California, where federal authorities arrested and deported her.

Numerous portraits of Arellano hang inside the church, and she called the press conference from her Mexican home to wish Crisostomo luck.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/764374,...efuge29.article

Edited January 30, 2008 by devilette

[Peikko 1,575]

Wow, you astonish me! It's really a criminal offence to harbor an illegal alien? Who knew?

Oh, but wait, why would she seek sanctuary in a church if it wasn't?

:shakes head: VJ, sheesh!

[PlatyPius 5]

blah blah blah...

[no name 1]

Wow, you astonish me! It's really a criminal offence to harbor an illegal alien? Who knew?

Oh, but wait, why would she seek sanctuary in a church if it wasn't?

:shakes head: VJ, sheesh!

Hey, you asked, not me!

Church law?

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes Dev Church law. I am now hereby getting off the roudabout. Enjoy the ride.

[no name 1]

Yes Dev Church law. I am now hereby getting off the roudabout. Enjoy the ride.

Things don't go your way, it *IS* your MO to sling mud.

[HAL 9000 96]

These are valid points to be addressed separately if need be. The case for illegal immigration has a root cause that is somewhat separate, but parallel, to several root causes for poverty and low skills in our own country. People have many more choices, if compared on a parallel basis, than folks overseas. Any one coming to this country should have the capacity to notice that quite rapidly.

By osmosis people tend to flow towards where they can better support themselves. That is an unwritten law of life, no? And yes, our Media Mogul Friend is the richest man on earth. This man obviously is a capitalist. That is the only issue, and yet I do not advocate a socialist system where all are required to financially spread themselves equally to ensure the survival and sustenance of all.

Americans living in poverty live so due to economic policies in our nation as well as choices. This is separate from the policies we enforce and permit overseas in order to ironically maintain a disproportionate number of wealthy Americans in their status with the overwhelming support from their overseas counterparts that are concomitantly supported in power by our very own status quo. In other words, we help keep them in power, we help the current economic atmosphere flourish overseas, and by consequence...

... we continue to stimulate our illegal problem. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it, we ourselves are feeding the beast.

Enforcement of current laws that circumvent these issues is what is unfair. Enforcing fair laws based on fair foreign policy should be what we strive to do as a democratic and just nation.

The issues are interrelated. The poor need work, fair pay and the opportunity to get out of poverty. This will never happen as long as there is an endless supply of cheap labor from the southern borders. The American government's and all American citizens social responsibility, for that matter, is to the American people first. We need to make sure the middle and lower class Americans are prosperous again before we can take care of others.

A sound immigration policy will trickle people in. Rather than allow them to enter as they see fit. Such a policy will not bring down everyone else's living standard while trying to absorb poverty. If you have a look at various nations with high living standards, they have such policies in place. To the contrary, the living standards of Americans middle and lower class is on a downward spiral.

There are many other avenues for poor South Americans to take rather than breaking into another nation. For example, I know Australia is begging for skilled labor and workers. South American nations have issues to overcome like everybody else. Some people seem to not only think that the average American is rich but also confuse America for unicef.

Law and order is the foundation of every civilized nation.

I agree that they are interrelated, just not equal in scope nor in origin and thusly can be separated by root cause. One has a cause that is in the way we allow our country to be run, to simplify things, and the other in how we allow our interests abroad to shape foreign microeconomy.

If our resources were somehow limited in the dealing of this situation then we would not be a " first world " nation. We can definitely do both things at the same time... but how do you think we should tackle the issues? Blaming a marginal portion of the population (not our population but those that are here illegally) for the ills caused by the present economic and social structure of our nation's classes is not a 1:1 comparison and must be duly noted as such. This is a common scapegoat that has us racking our heads against the wall when it comes to trying to play the blame game.

Plus, contrary to what we may consider to be a negative living standard, we continue to enjoy a standard of living that is grossly inflated when compared to the rest of the playing field. It is a field that is not separated by a wall, and those on the other side are just the same as we are. In the past I have argued that if we allow our companies to set up shop elsewhere in order to avoid humane business practices, then we should definitely allow those people that are relatively disadvantaged to come and enjoy the same disproportionately positive standard of living we so enviously deny others. See the cycle?

Now, do I think that is a good and logical way of doing things? Of course not! And maybe someone reading will see the sense in reducing illegal immigration by establishing honest business practices from our point of the bargain- yes, we can put pressure on other developed nations that play like we do to follow suit in the spirit of fairness to all.

Does this mean we have to follow a socialist model of economics? Hell no!

It only means that we need to start conducting ourselves like a world economy, not just a world bully. Then maybe, by playing fair, others will not be drawn to our side of the field so much. And hey, maybe by not getting pushed around so much, other nations would be able to raise their own standard of living to a point where they can come here... as B1/B2 visa holders... and spend their capital on us.

The road to economic solvency is two-fold and I definitely think that what we do to help others can and will in the long run help us.

But also, while we act like sane human beings with a nose for international responsibility, we can most definitely take care of our own. We have the capital for it already. Too bad we are too busy entertaining the whims of one madman in the Middle East and paying for it with our children's tax money.

[almaty 19]

Marc devilette isn't part of the "illegal alien cheerleading squad"

best.post.on.this.thread

I got "best post" (and a chance to use the "whispering" smiley )

CONGRATS SCOTT!

excellent brother scott

[panamania79 2]

Wow... religious talk and all and humanity still takes a back seat.

if humanity means rewarding people that knowingly break the laws of the land...yep!

No it means looking at what the issue is all about.

As I said in a previous post, she must leave in respect of the law.

That does not absolve any of us here, specially those of us here in this community (barring any trolls), from using a little understanding of the system and seeing that human beings are human and need to survive. We, of all people, should have a basic understanding of how immigration law works and how unfair it can be to not just those of us that do things legit.

Don't be a hater, be a player...

And above all,don't be a player-hater.