JER2020

4 minutes ago, Daisy.Chain said:

Well...it depends on how seriously you take your promise. I only see one way to interpret:

"I  hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

 

 

Now, PRACTICALLY speaking, I've never heard of the "entirely renouncing" being ENFORCED, which makes me think it's a personal decision!

 

Yes so renunciation cannot be accomplished by just an oath. For instance, in Spain, if I wanted to renounce, there is an entire process I would have to follow and even stand before a judge that will dictate on my case and strip me of that nationality. This oath is only for the purposes of US law and does not require for you to show proof of renouncing to anything. Just accept that while in the US you will be only recognized by the government and its laws, as a US citizen. They also hope that you  will remain loyal and be loyal primarily to the US. Anything USCIS related, I am sure you're familiar with the nature of all their questions, they are heavily political and anti-communist. So this is their main motivation in making you take that oath, to protect the foundation on which the US was built and if you intend to become naturalized, they hope you will renounce to allegiance to a communist/socialist  nation you may be coming from.

On 5/25/2021 at 4:05 PM, ajomr said:

Hi all, thanks so much for your replies.

Just to be clear:

1. I have no debate as to whether I want dual citizenship or not. I intend to maintain dual citizenship and I know for sure that it is perfectly fine, legal, etc with respects to policy with both Israel and the United States. So no doubts there.
2. I'm pretty confident, given the replies to this post and also from my online research, that taking the oath as written will not affect my Israeli citizenship and most likely everything will be fine and I'll be able to keep both citizenships. Although the oath text does seem like it is negating my Israeli citizenship, it will not have any affect.

My only question is whether anyone knows of cases where someone has requested to modify the oath text so that it doesn't sound like you are giving up an existing citizenship.

From what I see, it is possible to request modifications for certain circumstances (as I mentioned in original post) but I'm curious whether anyone knows of cases where modifications where made to accommodate dual citizenship.

 

I know I sound like I'm being a pain in the butt, and after everything is said and done, I'll probably just accept the oath as is and be done with it

But if it's perfectly fine to adjust it, I'd rather go that route. 

I don't think anyone can guarantee that in the future  there won't be some crazy administration running the country and deciding "hey you took an oath that you renounce your citizenship to all other countries, so you're in violation of your oath".

That's all I'm saying... 🦔

Hey, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have been working through this dilemma myself. I think we understand the admin side of it, but its the fact you give your word importance. An oath is an oath, for those who just want a US passport at all costs and don't care what they have to say to get it, different story and I respect that.

As you well said, an oath is binding, and if in the future an administration wants to hold you to your oath, who can say that it wont happen? Its a concern based in fear and thats where the problem came in. I had to ask God to give me peace about it, whether it is to take it or to just cancel my N400 application and call it a day.

I dont like the line about renouncing and abjuring to any sovereignty to which I am subject to. I wish they would specify it is talking about the nations lol. It is just too overbroad. 

I will probably ask to wave the bearing of arms, I dont mind non-combatant service. The work of national importance under civilian direction is crazy too because that could be just anyone in the private sector with a project that government votes that is of national importance and then I HAVE to serve to it. Just crazy.

On 5/25/2021 at 9:53 AM, retheem said:

@Timonareply to this like a fellow Kenyan lol

Do you mind me asking how does a Kenyan respond to questions?

On 5/25/2021 at 9:37 PM, Daisy.Chain said:

The US naturalization oath is very clear...you RENOUNCE other allegiances. My husband had to think hard before taking it. Those words are hard to say, and as a Christian, he wasn't willing to swear to something that wasn't truthful. He decided to do it.

 

He never had to hand over his previous passport from another country etc/hasn't been an issue other than that he pays the Us tourist travel tax ($10) when traveling internationally because he has to fly IN on his US passport. But it is something you will morally have to decide for yourself.

I am a Christian myself and appreciate you understanding and sharing your experience. As you said one does have to give it thought because words have meaning and weight. We're not all the same, but there's a reason why USCIS accommodates a few revisions to the oath for the sake of peace of mind of the applicant and clear conscience.  Spain does not recognize that renunciation so to them it has no effect. As someone just said, it just means to the US you are only a US citizen. I have a feeling one day this will be modified, in a near future and even be made optional.

On 5/25/2021 at 10:55 AM, Timona said:

 

I think you are taking it way too deep as I had already mentioned to @JER2020 in another thread.

As already mentioned, some countries allow dual citizenship. Which country are you from? We can start from there.

 

I dont know what a true Kenyan means but you need to take it down a notch. Its a forum and I shared with a broader audience to hear other peoples thoughts, not the same one that chases me down the threads lol. You already shared your opinion once on a different thread as you well said, thank you,

On 5/25/2021 at 9:02 PM, USC4SPOUSE said:

I think you’re overthinking it. There’s no harm in that. 
the way I understand it the US does not mention or recognize dual citizenship. To the US you are a US citizen. If you hold any other nationalities, they just sort of look the other way. 
 

Good point, it 100% is speaking to that aspect, the wording just makes it feel deeper lol Thank you.

Has anyone in here given any thought to the oath of allegiance? This would be my third nationality and although I understand it is only to the effects of US Laws, the way it is written its like what I read in the bible and it made me uneasy for some time as I know I am making an oath not only before men but also before God. It is definitely loaded so was just wondering if it was only me lol. I serve the one above all earthly kingdoms and the one who allows them to stand or fall. At one point I even wondered if I really needed to be naturalized as I am a EU citizen as well and can travel more on that passport than I would on a US one. But my purpose for naturalizing is not for the passport, I love this country, all the good things that it was founded on and even as I see it is not what it used to be there is still hope. It has given me many opportunities, and to my family. I have a lot to be grateful for. 

You can modify the oath but only remove one of the US Armed forces option, however the work of national importance directed by civilians (forced to move to Mars under the direction of Elon Musk lol lol, jk). It is just very loaded. Spain does not recognize the oath so no problems there, my birth country I believe the same applies. I just wonder why the US is so invested in making new citizens commit at this level. Clearly those born here are not subject to this.

Anyone wants to share their thoughts?

Germany:

I solemnly declare that I will respect and observe the Basic Law and the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany, and that I will refrain from any activity which might cause it harm.

Israel:

"I declare that I will be a loyal national of the State of Israel."

Canada:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Russia:

I, (surname, name, middle name), swear that, by taking the citizenship of the Russian Federation, I will observe the Constitution and laws of the Russian Federation, and the rights and freedoms of its citizens; that I shall fulfill my duties as a citizen of the Russian Federation for the welfare of the state and society; that I will protect the freedom and independence of the Russian Federation; and that I will be loyal to Russia and respect its culture, history and traditions.

UK:

I, [name], [swear by Almighty God] [do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare] that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs, and successors, according to law.

Norway:

As a citizen of Norway I pledge loyalty to my country Norway and the Norwegian society, and I support democracy and human rights and will respect the laws of the country.

Applicants for Norwegian citizenship are not required to take the oath; it is optional.

USA:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Just now, NYBEtt said:

What stands out to me from these oaths is that Canada has to pledge allegiance to a monarch, whereas Norway, which has an actual monarch, does not 😂

This is an interesting discussion topic but probably suitable for a different sub-forum?

Yes you are right, probably should be on its own thread. I will do that. Thank you

1 minute ago, Timona said:

 

Well, you already took oath for 2 countries. Did it change anything?

I think you are overthinking. To me, oaths are just words. Do not take them too deep.

 

There is a spreadsheet

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UYpuRqSQkRAdX7Kr_nehvjsjCiNTyADPJ3CAc9qJHf4/edit?usp=sharing

 

Fill time-line, people

No I did not take two oaths, it is my first one. My first was by birth and second one through my Father. This is the first one and I respect your view, I don't believe they are just words. 

Some examples for comparison.

Australia:

From this time forward, [under God],

I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,

whose democratic beliefs I share,

whose rights and liberties I respect,

and whose laws I will uphold and obey.

Germany:

I solemnly declare that I will respect and observe the Basic Law and the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany, and that I will refrain from any activity which might cause it harm.

Israel:

"I declare that I will be a loyal national of the State of Israel."

Canada:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Russia:

I, (surname, name, middle name), swear that, by taking the citizenship of the Russian Federation, I will observe the Constitution and laws of the Russian Federation, and the rights and freedoms of its citizens; that I shall fulfill my duties as a citizen of the Russian Federation for the welfare of the state and society; that I will protect the freedom and independence of the Russian Federation; and that I will be loyal to Russia and respect its culture, history and traditions.

UK:

I, [name], [swear by Almighty God] [do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare] that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs, and successors, according to law.

Norway:

As a citizen of Norway I pledge loyalty to my country Norway and the Norwegian society, and I support democracy and human rights and will respect the laws of the country.

Applicants for Norwegian citizenship are not required to take the oath; it is optional.

USA:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Has anyone in here given any thought to the oath of allegiance? This would be my third nationality and although I understand it is only to the effects of US Laws, the way it is written its like what I read in the bible and it made me uneasy for some time as I know I am making an oath not only before men but also before God. It is definitely loaded so was just wondering if it was only me lol. I serve the one above all earthly kingdoms and the one who allows them to stand or fall. At one point I even wondered if I really needed to be naturalized as I am a EU citizen as well and can travel more on that passport than I would on a US one. But my purpose for naturalizing is not for the passport, I love this country, all the good things that it was founded on and even as I see it is not what it used to be there is still hope. It has given me many opportunities, and to my family. I have a lot to be grateful for. 

Anyone wants to share their thoughts?

On 5/21/2021 at 8:14 PM, delish said:

Got some update on my status. 

On 5/22/2021 at 12:06 PM, madisonsquare said:

Same here. New update.

based on these two posts, I am thinking that N-400 applications based on marriage to a US Citizen (3YR)  have priority over 5YR Permanent Resident rule.

Hello everyone, still waiting. Filed back in July 18, 2020. No updates to this day, the account now shows an estimated time until case decision of approx. 4 months. This is for Greer, SC on a 5YR PR. No biometrics reuse notice, nada lol

Hello

I got a response today on my account, I had emailed them on 10/27 asking why I had not yet received biometrics appt.

Requesting information about your N-400, Application for Naturalization:
Your case is awaiting the required biometrics submittal, and is currently in suspense until you complete this process. Your application information has been entered into the system which schedules applicants for biometrics at their local Application Support Center (ASC). Biometrics appointments are scheduled as slots become available at the ASC. Once you have been scheduled for an appointment, you will receive an ASC Appointment Notice to appear at a certain date and time at your local ASC. 

Hello everyone.

I filed 7/18 have not heard back since then. 

Yesterday I called USCIS and I got the typical response. I asked for a Tier 2 since I was over the 90 days since Charlotte, NC ASC opened. She said she could schedule a callback. By the way, there was no wait time which was good. She said Tier 2 could take up to 7 days to call me back. 

After I ended the call, immediately after Tier 2 called me, again no wait time. She said the timelines were not consistent, that although some people in my area have already naturalized, she understood my concern but at the end of the day, it is what it is. It will take however long it takes, she said there is no consistency whatsoever. If you happen to move along faster good for you but there is nothing in the way they are processing that determines that.

She told me that since they had already sent a request regarding Biometrics on my case and I got the standard response back, that she could not send another one for 30 days. I did like the fact she was very realistic and also understanding. She told me to be patient, they have huge backlogs, and then COVID happened so to not feel like I have to contact them again because nothing is holding my case back.

Just wanted to share that with everyone. I filed under the 5 year eligibility. 

I read on the biometrics thread that they will start sending biometrics appts a month after the reopening of ASCs. I called USCIS today to ask on the status of my application, I was told my case is still at the NBC. This other person said theirs was already transferred to local field office for further processing. So that is all I have seen.

2 minutes ago, Pats5415 said:

That is from July of 2019?

if you go to the last page, it shows a user with 2020 dates.

1 minute ago, Neickers said:

I doubt they wont, they have to move forward with everything, they have enough to fulfill applications and have a positive outcome by the end of this year, and by the looks of it, it seems like they just made all that up changing the reason from lack of funds and covid this year, to now having the probability of not having funds for next year. But there is no data showing their reasoning. and if they dont act on the current applications theyre going to find themselves in a hole. thats my assessment on this situation.

I can only hope you're right, I always stay positive, just cant believe there is nothing getting scheduled and they've been open, here in Charlotte since 7/20. I saw on one of the timelines that someone who filed on 7/26 has an 8/14 Biometrics appointment? see if you can find the same thing lol

3 minutes ago, Neickers said:

I doubt they wont, they have to move forward with everything, they have enough to fulfill applications and have a positive outcome by the end of this year, and by the looks of it, it seems like they just made all that up changing the reason from lack of funds and covid this year, to now having the probability of not having funds for next year. But there is no data showing their reasoning. and if they dont act on the current applications theyre going to find themselves in a hole. thats my assessment on this situation.

https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/citlist.php?cfl=0&op1=6&op2=&op3=&op4=748&op5=5,10,11&op6=All&op7=All

Check it out

I think no biometrics will be scheduled until funding bill passes for USCIS for this fiscal year. 

I have a feeling that until funding is secured for USCIS, they will not be scheduling biometrics. I think they may have opened up for certain applications but for N400 and 485 they will not do anything for now in case they have to proceed with furloughs and avoid a bigger problem in not having the manpower to deschedule everything. It is impossible that they're all open by now and no one in this forum has received biometrics appt for applications submitted as early as March. 

Applied on 7/18. I live in South Carolina.

Estimated case completion 5 months.

On 7/1/2020 at 3:27 PM, MarlinCobon said:

hello everyone!
so I submitted my application yesterday and I checked today and its says

 

Estimated case completion time

November 2020 (4 months)

 

Estimated wait time:

6 days

how accurate are these estimated times due to the pandemic? thanks in advance

wow this is amazing! that used to be the norm before COVID for more rural areas, all field offices are open and ASCs are scheduled to open last week of July for most, I would hope they're somehow starting to normalize and that your estimated case completion time is accurate!

Hello everyone!

Did you guys have to provide a travel record issued by CBP or simply entered the dates? Also have you guys uploaded the PDF version of your tax returns. I will be filing this week and am trying to gather everything. Any advice as to the general documentation requirements will be much appreciated.

My earliest accepted filing date is 7/11/2020, I wanted to go ahead and get this thread started if possible! I'm hoping that our wave will not be as impacted by COVID since USCIS is resuming operations June 4th.

On 10/13/2015 at 3:44 PM, TeddyB said:

Congrats Dave... I'm not sure if there is a link to check status, but my wife got her green card less than a month after she arrived. I'm not sure if that is standard or if they operate like USCIS or the NVC where there is no method to their madness.... That was also 9-10 months ago, so the wait time may have changed...

I have an update besides. My wife just gave birth to our daughter on Saturday.... So awesome and crazy year...

I know its crazy its been 2 years, well almost 2 for me, I arrived in October. I just read your post and I must've been blind back then and didnt say congrats on your baby girl! sorry about that!

Hope everyone is doing great, I'm still in Boston, its been tough adapting to this weather coming form Barcelona but we're moving to Fort Lauderdale this fall

On 5/11/2017 at 9:46 PM, Hope&Love said:

Am I the only November filler who's stuck in "Fingerprint received"? No REF

My parent's were and they got approved without interview, so if I were you, I'd be kinda happy that you never changed to "case ready to be scheduled for interview"