stedye

Hi Dear Forum members 
 
I hope all of you much success on your Visa Journey , in your relationship and eventual unions.
 
My journey started over 4 years ago and this Forum was an invaluable resource to helping me successfully bring my wife here on a CR1 - marriage visa from the Bulacan province.  We got married there and it took  almost 2 years  because of a lung ailment that had to clear up.
 
Not sure if this is correct Forum placement, but, I am at a serious crossroads.  My wife has not slept with me since arriving, avoids having sex and shys away from all intimacy such as kissing, hugging , hand holding, and massages . We did all of the above in the Philippines before we married , yet, since her arrival here she does not want to discuss the issue, and says when we purchase a firmer mattress  ( on the agenda for a spring purchase) . Two weeks after her arrival I yelled at her on why are you still sleeping in the living room ? She says that from that time she put up a wall that times time to pull down.  Do you believe after almost 2 years of my being kind - loving- patient and not yelling at her since Dec 2016 that this is justified or reasonable to continue denying her husband physical pleasure? I am a very fit, handsome  ( according to others ) 56 year old and she is 32 years old sleeps with stuffed animals and covers up in a Betty Boop blanket. She locks the bathroom when she goes in to use it , rarely talks to me at home and does not want to go for counseling.  Is it worth it to continue ? Is she playing games? Would you continue in this type of marriage , or, let it go ? Interested in your wisdom - feedback and insight.

Javadown 2 . It is a conundrum , a baffling pattern I agree , a close  friend who knows me well says you keep selecting the wrong women. Your point is well taken on a definitive decision needing to be made. The Colombian wife did not stay after the divorce , but, moved back to Colombia for 2 years. I have gleaned insight and different perspectives from the forum , that was my intent. I know that no one here can make a decision on my marriage, but, me. 

JE57 you have given such a beautifully well thought out response.  She is a good woman in many ways , or, I would have left long time ago. In Colombia I terminated three serious relationships with beautiful women when I saw , felt them motivated for just a green card, one lady I was about to begin the Visa process on her case. I lived in New York City for 20 years so I have street savvy and B.S. radar. You pose a few great options for me  ( us) and from the bottom of my heart I thank you. Just this morning she texted me at work to say thanks for the Rotisserie chicken I bought her home last night. She also stated that she was scheduled to work at 7am but did not want to wake me because I was in a deep sleep, she says she texted me the message about 7am yesterday which I never got , I told her we were both watching television last night and she should have mentioned it. She is very shy - non talkative even in public, a quiet lady. Her mom is like that as well , says very little, but treated me like a King at the family home when I was in Phil for two weeks.  If she did not have many Sterling qualities such as her dependability , she does not drink or smoke and she is always home when I get there on her off days. I have been teaching her to drive for over one year ( has her permit) but she is not enthused about Atlanta traffic. I will weigh all the factors , analyze and assimilate then decide a definitive direction . For those who believe in the efficacy of prayer pray that the Truth may be revealed and that we succeed together, or, amicably go peacefully separate paths. Much appreciation for those who take the time to help a fellow traveler. 

Javadown 2 . It is a conundrum , a baffling pattern I agree , a close  friend who knows me well says you keep selecting the wrong women. Your point is well taken on a definitive decision needing to be made. The Colombian wife did not stay after the divorce , but, moved back to Colombia for 2 years. I have gleaned insight and different perspectives from the forum , that was my intent. I know that no one here can make a decision on my marriage, but, me. 

Javadown 2 . It is a conundrum , a baffling pattern I agree , a close  friend who knows me well says you keep selecting the wrong women. Your point is well taken on a definitive decision needing to be made. The Colombian wife did not stay after the divorce , but, moved back to Colombia for 2 years. I have gleaned insight and different perspectives from the forum , that was my intent. I know that no one here can make a decision on my marriage, but, me. 

Cyberfx I am not evading your posts . My persistence in this marriage is due to obstinate persistence, I do not like to give up! Giving up is not an option until I am ready and know with certainty it is a lost cause , it may be near that but I have to decide when .
 
I do not have  time for grudges or being mad at someone, it is injurious and foolish to harbor these sentiments for people who mean well and want the best for me. I apologize sincerely if it seems that way. 

I admire your confidence in wanting to get to the bottom of this.  However unless your wife opens up about why she is acting this way, the only thing a counselor will be able to give you are theories.  Unfortunately from what you have shared with us, the odds of that happening at his point are very remote and become more remote by the minute.  What a counselor may be able to help with, is give you ideas on how to discuss these issues with your wife.  Whether she opens up or not, your main objective should be to figure out what you really want and decide on a best case scenario that would work for you.  When I say you, I mean for you personally,  not you and her collectively.    I say this because in the end, you can only control what you say, decide, feel, think or do.  And as much as you want someone else to see or feel things the way we would like them to, you can't force them.  This isn't meant to discourage you, rather to give you a heads up on what you are facing.    
 
If I may here are my 2 cents about some of the things already said about this situation and this thread.  For What it's worth:
 
 
Hinting at the idea of cheating isn't worrisome here.  It's human nature to imagine the worst when there seems to be no logical answer to a very complicated situation such as this.  
 
I totally get this sentiment about the blanket and stuffed animals!  Being an attractive guy myself, I would be wondering why she is choosing to sleep by herself comforted by stuffed animals instead of by me!  This statement has nothing to do with the blanket itself or the stuffed animals as other posters claimed and totally didn't get.  As far as the bathroom thing goes I agree, this is very unusual as it sends a clear signal that there is a barrier.  I mean she doesn't always go in there to take care of #2.  If she was open and comfortable enough with you, she wouldn't mind you going in there if she was in the shower or just doing her hair for example.
 
Her claim about the yelling incident being the cause IMO, is just a convenient façade to hide behind what the real cause is.  As is the firmer mattress deflection a convenient façade.  This problem was in place before you yelled at her, and was the cause of your frustration in the first place.  And seeing that there was intimacy before setting on US soil, reaffirms that there is something she is not telling you.  You just don't flip a switch unless there was a conscious decision made on her part.  That is why I highly doubt abuse or fear in this case.  Because if she was a victim of abuse earlier in her life, she wouldn't have been ok with intimacy from the start of your relationship.       
  

I haven't looked at this thread for a week or so but did today and was surprised to see the above quote.
 
Of course this poster is entitled to his/her opinion however VJ is about support, not about blaming/shaming.  Consider that we do not know who the poster is, nor even if the address given is remotely true.  There are no identifying photos as there is in my profile, therefore it is an anonymous question, and a really good one, I think.  Steyde states it's a quote that she used, but even if it was not--where else can a person go to get a variety of answers from a variety of viewpoints because some of us are Westerners and some are Filipino.  Further, Stedye stated earlier that she won't go to counseling.   I suggest that posts at VJ should be supportive and constructive, that's what we are about.
 
It is a complex issue.  Looking at it from the viewpoint of an investigator there are many interesting points.  The evidence (possession of a 10 year card) is likely to act as evidence that there is not a scam involved--no intent to marry and then run away, because that generally happens just after the 10 year card arrives.
 
Prior abuse of some sort is a real possibility.  Prior physical/emotional and/or sexual abuse could create significant intimacy issues. 
 
Another possibility is that  some filipina get "pushed" into the "marry a Westerner--send us piso" syndrome.  I have seen first-hand just how strong and terrible that push can be.  Filipinas especially if Ate (but not solely limited to Ate) are expected to be providers, often the prime provider, end of story.  In my opinion, and its evident if you go looking online, Filipino families can be abusive to their daughters after marriage.  "Send piso,  send more piso, we need piso now!"  I consider my fiancees family excellent in that respect--they have never once asked for piso.  It was quite the opposite.  I was picked up by family at the airport (Cebu) taken to Balamban (easily a 1000piso ride each way), driven around to neat places (this by Kuya (uncle)).  My future brother-in-law gave me his motorbike for two weeks, no expectation of payment.  Mama and Papa live on about $2US a day, and they have never asked for one piso.
 
Contrast this with another Filipina that I met in Cebu long ago, and who, had things turned out differently, I would be married to today.  She did get married and lives in the USA today, and she and her guy are still in touch on occasion.  She's done well, making about $35,000US/annually.  Initially she would send home 3000php, then it turned to 4000 and then 5000 and eventually 10,000php.  And her mama just spent and spent and spent--kids went everywhere on jet ferries and parties were thrown for the entire neighborhood--it blows my mind.  Especially that those kids don't need jet ferry rides, they need a dentist.   So keep in mind that a woman simply might "act" like she wanted a marriage relationship when in fact she "needed" (desperately to please the family) even if the idea of sex was terrible to her.  Note: I do understand that the Filipino culture regarding money is hugely different than mine might be so I do not fault this woman's mama, about the only thing that I have said to my friend is: "consider sending a bit less, and taking the difference and putting it into a bank account for a real emergency like a vehicle accident."  
 
Which brings me to another point:  Parents, good Filipino parents, fear that their daughters will get pregnant out of wedlock.  And some go overboard.  Forget putting the fear of God in the daughter for that is often not very effective, after all--that's what confession is for.  But some parents literally make their daughters think that should they have sex, they will experience horrific pain, probable illness, and maybe....just maybe eventual death--so keep those legs crossed.  The advantage of this tactic is: no unwed pregnancy.  The downside is emotional trauma for girl who becomes a woman and is torn between desire and fear which in some cases may well cause vaginismus (painful or impossible intercourse).  I believe that this occurs far more often than most would want to admit.  Could that be what happened here--sure, or maybe not, we'll never know but I hope Steyde figures it out eventually.
 
Counseling appears to be the only answer.  Perhaps Steyde can find a Filipina-American counselor, or an Asian-American or at least a female counselor.  That might help unravel just what is going on. I do hope that such a patient, obviously loving man can find the answers that he needs.  And if anyone ever wants to run more personal info that they do not want to put in a post but want to share seeking an answer, feel free to PM me.
 
 

Had no clue about an International Mens Day. I take it that International Women's Day gets more press and push. The same emphasis on Mothers Day over Fathers Day when they both should have an equal coverage. Thanks to all hope all is well .

The OP is not wondering , but, just asking a question. I honestly did not know about how , or, if the day is a holiday observed in Phil. You gents don't have to be condescending , or, put a spin on a basic question. I already have what the gifts to give , whether they woo or not is immaterial , my gift is in the giving and that is what matters.

In addition here's an excerpt from (yes, I know Wikipedia...):
 

Machismo  <--Link to clip above
 
Aside from my observation, she is just 3 years older than me. I have many friends who are filipinas and let me tell you, she's still very much a young person still. Hence the betty boop stuff and playing games on her phone. Do reach out to her and see if there is an activity that you guys can make a hobby, for the 2 of you. Something like bowling, or a sport you can engage in with your pets, do you have space for a garden? Being vegetarian can be quite a hardship for a filipino spouse. I am vegetarian and my husband isn't... There are times when we feel like we are a very unlikely match. I want to encourage you to maybe try learning to cook some simple things that you like and show her how, let her watch you, or watch cooking shows with her. Take her to Atlanta and go to a market like H-Mart or Other Asian markets and show her your interest in things she's used to, if she's been there for 2 years, show her that you still appreciate where she is from. It sounds to me like you have very little commonality and she may feel like there isn't any connection between you other than sex. (when you did have it) 

Has this been resolved?  Painful intercourse or even a psychological fear of problems could dampen intimacy.
 
From many of your remarks, it seems she makes some efforts but shies away from anything that would lead to intimacy.

PaoSelle, you state: “…he just has genuine hate for the men in the Philippines.”
 
You say: “I can tell you all the good things about the people in the Philippines but it still wouldn’t change your mind man”
 
On one hand, you appear to lash back with the same sort of generality and judgement that clearly bothers you.  I have long ago learned: Never, ever, “judge” a person from the Philippines.
 
Generalizations are not appropriate here, yet the discussion of stedye’s OP, where people ask for family background is appropriate.
 
In the Republic of Philippines machismo is alive and well, and to the American mind, odd, impenetrable, hidden, and other things.  Generalizations aside, many men treat women poorly; perhaps the greatest reason a Filipina desires a Westerner, is because of lack of machismo.  A common (my opinion) predominant reason Filipinas desire westerners are not merely whiteness of skin, or opportunity, though these reasons exist—the true reason is simple:  Filipinas believe that their husband will always be true to them and woe to a westerner that fails in that respect!
 
More than half of ALL babies born in the Philippines were born from unwed mothers (909,783 or 52.1% of all babies born in 2016.  Oh yes, the men of the Philippines are excellent men—think about the facts please.  Think about this, more than half of babies in the Philippines last year were fathered by men who dumped their “love.”  Note: About 40% of babies born in America have unwed mothers—either machismo or stupidity is rampant here too.  
 
My brother-in-law to be Rolando is a sweet, loving, hard-working, kind, trustworthy man and I lament that he will not take a bride because he knows he cannot afford it.  Here is a good man who will, I hope someday make a good father and husband, I do not think that he knows the concept of machismo.  If he accidentally impregnated his girlfriend I have zero doubt that he would marry her.
 
However, do not, for a second, believe that, unless you live within the family that anyone really knows.  True things that I have heard over the years: “Mama’s caribao died.”  “That brother had an accident.”
 
No.  The caribao did not just die—it was murdered, and I believe murdered because a loan shark demanded payment and that was the message.  No, the brother did not merely have an accident, I believe the brother was murdered, loan shark, bet-fixing—I do not know the reason why.  Yet I do know that what is apparent on the outside is often not at all indicative of what is really going on.  (Note: these examples are not related to my fiancee’s family, my history in the Philippines goes back quite a way).  
 
In America there are good men, and bad men (and lots of both).  In the Philippines there are good men, and bad men (and lots of both).  I like this quote:
 
The Philippines is a country of sharp contrasts and paradoxes. And the role of women in Philippine society is one area where this depiction is most palpable. While it can be said that Filipino women have gained more leverage than their other Asian sisters in elevating their status in society, their fight against oppression and exploitation is far from won. They may have come a long way but they still have far to go.
http://www.pitlanemagazine.com/cultures/role-of-women-in-philippine-society-filipino-women-and-feminism.html  also:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo
 
steyde’s relationship is one of misery and it’s fully appropriate to look for reasons and oftentimes reasons come from looking at the family and its history.  I searched for and have specifically found a woman that so dearly loves her entire family that she would lay her life down for them.  So would her papa or mama and so would her brothers.  She comes from an intact family and get this:  Take Filipinacupid.com and ask 100 women“do you love your mama/papa?  Did mama/papa fight?  Was there an alcohol problem?  Was there cheating?  And I came to this conclusion:  Most of the women (90+%) on dating sites like Filipinacupid in fact come from broken homes—and broken homes do not create women OR men who want to grow up and have a loving family and create loving babies, or if they do want, they no longer know how to.  Like it or not, we are a product of our family. 
 
My advice for any man looking for a super-quality wife is go the Philippines and find a woman who loves her family and where momma and papa have always respected each other and then you have a chance at having a truly loving relationship.
 
And too consider, for in the Philippines, to an American it appears a Patriarchal society, yet is far from that, it’s a Matriarchal society and the females bear the burden, not the males, of supporting the family. In many cases a women will do what she has to do to complete that task—even if it means utilizing an American as a conduit to a better life.  Therefore, I also advise men who search for a loving wife: Beware of Ate.  If a woman has sisters/Aunts in America especially if Ate, the % chance that you are being set up goes up exponentially.  This is simply my opinion and not all Filipinas with an Ate in America intend to engage in fraud—it is merely a potential red flag that steyde may want to look to  understand his plight.  So my only advice to styde is to consider the family history for it may be the key to understanding what is going on.
 
 
 

You're a more patient man than me and I feel bad for you.  All the questions and insecurity that your circumstance creates would be tough for anyone to endure.  
 
Obviously you have a huge decision to make; is it worth it to keep trying to see if things will change, or is all hope lost at this point?  Follow your heart.  

A couple of thoughts. 
1) You said there was no physical intimacy at all and you lead with the concern that you've not 'slept together' in 2 years... But my question would be why would you want to ?  If there is no emotional intimacy between you (and it sounds like there isn't) then you could get what you desire physically elsewhere.  Therefore the real concern in my opinion should be the lack of a real marriage.  You say she went home to the Philippines twice since she's been here but have you considered or taken vacations together?
 2) You seem more than willing to talk about it with her,  with a counselor with clergy etc.  but she isn't.. Perhaps it's an unfair generalization but my experience is that women from the Phlipiines (and perhaps men as well) don't generally do well talking thru such things. (culture difference coupled with insecurity)   It is extremely hard and puts them in a position of feeling very venerable and can be terrifying.  This would be even more true if she has something she is ashamed of or insecure about.  As such every attempt to 'talk about it' might be perceived by her as an attack rather than the loving gesture that you intend it to be.  
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You've said she does do things for you and that is a positive sign. She has not said no to a firmer mattress that too may be a good sign.  For sure, I think there is a good possiblity that she used you to gain status in the USA but she's got a 10 YR green card and you're still on the hook for supporting her even if she left.  She's come back (twice) from the Philippines which may or may not have been for money.  To your knowledge she's not looking to go out to bars/night clubs or browsing personals looking for someone else so while I am suspicious of her motives some of the classic signs are, apparently missing.  
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If she really did marry you for a GC then there may be some guilt associated with that which is preventing her from truly falling in love with you or hidden secrets tearing her apart that day be day by day get harder and harder to tell you.  
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My suggestion is either take a hardline and say that's it I can't do this anymore in which case your marriage is probably over and you'll never really know or double down on what you've been doing but drop the let's talk about us.  Try the let's talk about what we can do together (where would you like to see in the USA?)  Consider a couples message perhaps see if the physical intamacy issues are you or in general she doesn't want ANYONE touching her.  Set her free... Tell her you love her,  (you obviously believe you do) and that you want nothing more than for her to be happy and is there ANYTHING you can do to increase her happiness
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I know others here are saying divorce and be done with it and on the surface that certainly seems like the right answer but some of the little details like her buying you things, willing cleaning the house not generally it seems giving you a hard time.  Think if while she was in the Philippines if she had to come back for the money ?  She could have stayed out of the USA for as much as 6 months.  My thoughts are that perhaps what you said when you 'yelled' at her caused much more permanent and deeper emotional scaring then you realized and that since then she's built that narative up in her mind and amplified it.  Maybe try to just find common ground/interests even if that's playing the same games or occasionally watching Phlipiines 'SHOWTIME' together.  Consider if maybe if she won't share a bed with you if perhaps she'd share a bedroom with you in separate beds.  My point is there has to be a strong trust and emotional connection for the physical intimacy.  Either something changed when she arrived (i..e. she didn't need to be physical with you because she was in it for the greencard) or something changed emotionally (she felt vulnerable exposed and powerless and has never found the safe space she was in while in the phlippines).  Or perhaps, as scary as it sounds she was abused by someone between your being intimate with her in the Philippines and her arrival in the USA.  A counselor would be good but she's unlikely to go but perhaps you should even if by yourself.   Professional advice to you based on a greater totality of the situation is better than getting advice from strangers on the internet based on mere snippets of information.  Tell her you are going because you love her and are lost and confused about your marriage with her and since you can't discuss it with her you need help.
Good luck!  And God Bless!
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But before US she was good, so I tend to think smth is off with her.

The OP clearly loves his wife to stay in a sexless marriage (kudos to you!). What I find particularly odd is the fact she has a 10 year green card. If she was solely in it for that wouldn't she have left by now? Is it possible she is content with the way things are? Some people think a sexless marriage is normal. Did she grow up with parents who had a regular sex life? 
 
What I find unfortunate is the length of time your physical separation has gone on for. Most long term marriages (including my own) have gone through "droughts". Things like deaths in the family or having a baby can dampen your sex drive. She seems to be able to express her appreciation in the other things you do. All communication does not seem lost.
 
It could be anybody's guess as to why sex stops in a relationship. When I look back on my ex we were into very different things. As others pointed out she could have experienced sexual trauma in her past. Sometimes people have a lack of sex drive. She can go to her doctor to get checked out. Things like anemia or low thyroid can lower your sex drive and are easily correctable. 
 
I know it would be extremely difficult for anyone to hear their husband isn't satisfied. Maybe you can present it in a way where it sounds like having sex is a great thing (feeling closer to her, she is so good in bed, etc) as opposed to "I never get any from you". I find words of encouragement like you are so amazing at e.g. blowjobs much better. Does she make any physical contact? What about snuggling on the couch? I think often times we think of sex as just the act but what about kissing? Hugging? Sometimes small steps can lead into bigger ones. Have you tried going on date nights?
 
Sometimes periods of separation can help people assess where things are. It does not mean an actual break up but living apart. In most cases this is the point of no return. But there are couples where they needed the time apart to realize what they are missing. It's also not an overwhelming first step.
 
I am not familiar with their culture but maybe it's taboo to share their sexual desires. Have you asked her the kinds of things she's into? Sometimes people are afraid they will be judged. The one thing I am concerned about (I could be wrong) is you hint at the idea she is cheating on you. Is there anything other than the lack of sex that might make you think that?

The reason I brought up whether her folks have a healthy sex life is we are often influenced by what we observe. I am not implying it's a one size fits all theory but perhaps her parents have more of a friendship than a relationship and she thinks its normal. 
 
Did you guys have a healthy sex life before marriage? It sounds like you guys need to go back to the basics. Evaluate whether you are still attracted to each other. See if there are common interests. Do you guys cuddle? hug? kiss? an innocent butt pat? check each other out when they come out of the shower? these are all subtle forms of intimacy. 
 
I understand sex feels awkward the longer you go without it. As they say though it's like riding a bike lol. Is there a chance she feels the same way? We are all throwing out theories. What do you think is going on?

I haven't noticed any Filipino's who enjoy conflict, or discussions about problems or coming together to talk about things that might be difficult to say.
On top of that, if she is more reserved and shy with you now, versus in the Philippines, it might be that because there, she was expected to allow you to do those things while you were courting her. (To be a good option for you to marry her.) She was not taught to use her voice and let you know what she felt comfortable with. Now that you two are married, she feels that as long as she cares for you, she's doing her duty. Maybe she never expected a passion-filled marriage with you because she was probably told, that with the age difference you just wanted a woman companion, and she would learn to have feelings for you later. Maybe she just resigned herself to her life (bahala na), and hopes you will just continue to let her serve you and take care of your home without requiring her to sleep with you. Maybe she hasn't developed those feelings and just let you choose her.
 
Just my observation.

That was not a letter that she wrote.  It was a quote that she got online. She sent me a photo of the quote.
 
I am looking Into counseling, even , for just my own peace of mind. I would never share any letter she wrote me directly. 

JE57 you have given such a beautifully well thought out response.  She is a good woman in many ways , or, I would have left long time ago. In Colombia I terminated three serious relationships with beautiful women when I saw , felt them motivated for just a green card, one lady I was about to begin the Visa process on her case. I lived in New York City for 20 years so I have street savvy and B.S. radar. You pose a few great options for me  ( us) and from the bottom of my heart I thank you. Just this morning she texted me at work to say thanks for the Rotisserie chicken I bought her home last night. She also stated that she was scheduled to work at 7am but did not want to wake me because I was in a deep sleep, she says she texted me the message about 7am yesterday which I never got , I told her we were both watching television last night and she should have mentioned it. She is very shy - non talkative even in public, a quiet lady. Her mom is like that as well , says very little, but treated me like a King at the family home when I was in Phil for two weeks.  If she did not have many Sterling qualities such as her dependability , she does not drink or smoke and she is always home when I get there on her off days. I have been teaching her to drive for over one year ( has her permit) but she is not enthused about Atlanta traffic. I will weigh all the factors , analyze and assimilate then decide a definitive direction . For those who believe in the efficacy of prayer pray that the Truth may be revealed and that we succeed together, or, amicably go peacefully separate paths. Much appreciation for those who take the time to help a fellow traveler. 

RO_AH your words are truthfully and honestly spoken. Many people stay in situations like this for decades. Oh no!! Can't do that! Thanks for the sage advice my friend.

Whatever you do, do not stay in a relationship where there is no passion or intimacy. We all deserve to be with someone that we connect with on that level. Some people don't need that and are happy enough with just a companion. But if you are the type that needs that (and it seems like you are) either work it out with her or move one. You need to be in a relationship where both partners needs are being met.

As I mentioned before,  if she will not go see a marriage counselor with you then you should go by yourself.  Keep searching until you find a professional to help you so that you are getting professional advice to help your wife and yourself get to a happier place for both of you.   My prayers are with you.  God Bless you and your wife. 

She has a 10 year permanent resident status.